devnull wrote: » Leap Cards only cost €5 and don't need to be registered. If an evader got caught once they'd simply swap to a new Leap Card and it would be more than worth their while since inspectors are not exactly common on Irish Rail. You can easily go a year or two without seeing them and even inspectors at ticket gates are of no use at catching those without a tagged on leap card due to conditional validation evasion methods being used.
EdgeCase wrote: » I'd suggest you : 1. Appeal it. 2. Make a complaint to the NTA and Irish Rail about the ludicrous situation. 3. Copy all of these complaints to your local TD (or several local TDs) and send with a letter explaing that you want the confusing/ludicrous situation that cause people to get into this trap ended. 4. Raise the issue with the media if necessary. You're technically in the wrong with the ticket, but the system is a joke. Also, I'm not sure why an Irish Rail inspector took your Leap card. It is NTA property, not Irish Rail's and may contain other transport passes and cash balances that have nothing to do with them. So, I would suggest you ask the NTA to retrieve your card from Irish Rail.
prinzeugen wrote: » They took the card as there MAY have been a history of fare evasion. But the rules are there. The OP was in the wrong and "I did not know" is not a defence. This is a big problem with people now. They are being fed info non stop and dont look or check anything. Its not the system, its the people. Read the T&C's folks. It only takes 5 mins.
BarryD2 wrote: » HonalD wrote: » Does breaking the rules not equal cheating the system? And clearly if you were on a train going to Newbridge without a valid fare paid I.e. you did not have a valid ticket for your journey then you were not paying your way. Sorry to burst the sympathy bubble but you were wrong, you were caught in the wrong so that should be the end of it. Unless you think the opposite? Ah would you get outa that. She travelled an extra 10 minutes or so on a train, between two commuter towns on the outskirts of Dublin, thinking she was covered by the card which is supposed to be for general public transport. Which according to their website: 'Leap Card is a convenient way to pay for public transport services in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Wexford.' She's a legitimate fare paying passenger who makes a small mistake over the boundaries that IR set on the scheme. Any reasonable business that relies on customer satisfaction would have a way of managing this without pissing off legitimate fare paying passengers. And God knows, there's enough free loaders on exemptions that don't pay a cent.
HonalD wrote: » Does breaking the rules not equal cheating the system? And clearly if you were on a train going to Newbridge without a valid fare paid I.e. you did not have a valid ticket for your journey then you were not paying your way. Sorry to burst the sympathy bubble but you were wrong, you were caught in the wrong so that should be the end of it. Unless you think the opposite?
Deleted User wrote: » HonalD wrote: » Does breaking the rules not equal cheating the system? No, and you're being obtuse. There is a clear difference between breaking the rules deliberately, and finding out that you have broken them unbeknownst to yourself. People should be given the benefit of the doubt by default, certainly for a first offence. Think of it in terms of rugby union.... Some fouls are a penalty, some just a scrum. All you have to do is log the leap card first time round, second offense = fine.
HonalD wrote: » Does breaking the rules not equal cheating the system?
devnull wrote: » But where are you going to find the billions it is going to cost in order to fund the construction and massive CPO'ing that will need to be done to create the additional tracks, wiring, signalling, platforms and space that is going to be needed for this. Even then there will be stations where there is physically no space to expand the number of platforms or tracks. Whilst I can see where you are coming from in theory and agree with what you are saying if we're talking in general rather than about Ireland specifically, you have to take into account the fact that there are serious limitations here, both with existing infrastructure and the lack of land to add additional infrastructure, as well as the massive costs of mass CPO'ing which would be both politically unpopular and expensive. There are other projects that would give far better value return in my view.
Deleted User wrote: » Well there's a major flaw in the system right there. Surely there should be one per train? I don't think I've ever gotten an inter-county train and not been asked to show a ticket.
Bob24 wrote: » As a compromise you just need a few new platforms in a couple of key stations and indeed some additional signalling (both types of services can mostly share the same track in the Dublin area but the national one just needs its own platform and a short bit of track in a fairly limited number of stations so that it can stop at these and/or overtake local trains).
So going back to the original topic and moving away from that side note, my original point was that with the situation as it is, the very minimum Irish Rail should to os to at least have clear signage/maps at the station and on the trains so that passengers are easily aware how far they can go using a Leap Card (with a possible vocal announcement on the train before leaving the Leap Card zone).
SeeMoreBut wrote: » You should be able to tag on and off at all stations.
Bob24 wrote: » If you plan properly it perfectly practical (and faster for long distance passengers) to separate local and national services on different trains. It doesn't mean trains can't use the same tracks, they just don't stop at the same stations or if they do stations have two separate areas. Many countries are doing that. Agree the other option is not fully practical, but again what we have at the moment is not great either as the ticket validation options are inconsistent with no clear visibility to the passengers.
Msrebeckyxo wrote: » I got fined 113 euros and leap card was taken which is annoying as I’ve my exams in college the next 4 days.
schemingbohemia wrote: » What you're proposing will see empty or near empty trains leaving Dublin all so people who can't be bothered to find out the rules of their ticket don't get fined! You're proposing a sledgehammer to crack a sesame seed.
HonalD wrote: » Eh, really? So what you are saying is that everyone should be allowed be caught once without a valid ticket for travel and given a warning? But second time they are fined? Should we apply this to every service industry? Why not rely on people to pay their way and if they make a mistake or deliberately evade a fare, when caught they are fined for each and all offense? That sounds fair to those who pay the correct fare each and every time.
devnull wrote: » Having an inspector on every single train would be hugely expensive - but they certainly need to step up patrols and focus them on train rather than at gate lines because most of the evaders know a way to get around the gate line checks which doesn't involve hurdling the barriers or jumping over a fence etc.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Again, there is a difference between evadng the fare and making a genuine mistake. Tagging on is, at the very least, an indication that she was willing to pay her fare. What is the difference between the fares to both of these stations, does anyone know? Is it more than a fiver? It’s over €10. Leap card single from Heuston to Sallins is around €3.70. It’s something like €14.50 for a single ticket to Newbridge.
HonalD wrote: » I'm sorry but that's a very poor reflection on reality. The extension of the LEAP card system to Sallins/Naas was published widely in the press - representations have been made in the Dail to get it extended to Newbridge but it hasn't been. The resultant lack of parking spaces in Sallins/Naas has been a topic of debate too as many commuters from Kildare/Newbridge drive and park to use the short hop zone fare reduction (which is significant). Plans to expand the car park are reported in progress. All this is common knowledge and has been discussed on boards.ie too. So ignorance is not a defence.
Sephiroth_dude wrote: » Do they take your name and address when they fine you? What to stop someone giving fake details?
BarryD2 wrote: » Regardless though: if I was in HR in IR, I'd pull in this inspector and advise them to be more careful when representing the company. And if they repeated treating fare paying customers like this, well I'd fire them.
Stephen15 wrote: » Leap was orginally only intended for travel within the GDA it has now been expanded to many places further away from Dublin and Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford cities.
Losty Dublin wrote: » Or cash. That's nationwide
Deleted User wrote: » Again, there is a difference between evadng the fare and making a genuine mistake. Tagging on is, at the very least, an indication that she was willing to pay her fare. What is the difference between the fares to both of these stations, does anyone know? Is it more than a fiver?
Dravokivich wrote: » Leap was always planned to be nationwide. They just did it in phases. Yeah... by buying those things I believe are called "Tickets" in some places. Will never catch on here though. That doesn't matter. You're just trying to reason down and minimize the impact overrunning a service has. When I use something, I look up what it'll cost, how I'll pay and how I'll use it. Dublin Bus had a big promo a few years back because of people paying the minimum fare and doing extended journeys. You think not knowing they should have paid more will cut it? As essentially that's what the OP's issue is. They never checked how to pay for the journey they made. Irish Rail don't hide the information. Every part of their website includes a button you can press that will take you to a journey planner with ticket options and a means to assess your fare. There are ticket vending machines all over Heuston, which the OP could have easily walked to and tapped in Origin / Destination. There is also a staffed information desk. And you have to walk pass someone to gain entry to the platforms. There was no lack of options for them to verify what was needed.
devnull wrote: » That process would send fare evasion through the roof, because it encourages people to travel without a valid ticket as they know if caught by an inspector they will not be fined and can just buy a ticket for the same price from the inspector. If there is no inspector, they simply would not pay and since you've removed any risk of a fine for not paying and gave every offender out their a get out clause of buying a ticket when challenged then everyone may as well do it because worst case scenario is they'd be no worse off.
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