Salisbury nerve agent attack a false flag/decoy operation?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Am I using hard data

No you're not. you're repeating what you read on some racist propaganda site and now you think you know better than every historian in the world.

King Mob wrote: »

But you're not denying the Holocaust, right? :rolleyes:

Am I using hard data unless you think there were more Jews in Europe that are not accounted for in the historical record? Suspicious the number was 4 million a decade or more ago and jumped now to 6 million?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

How can 6 million Jews have died if the Jews themselves claim 4 million Jews were still living in Europe in 1950.

Alamanac of 1933 a respected journal back then reported 9.5 million Jews lived in the whole of Europe.

5.5 million. Then how logical none of that 5.5 million Jews emigrated to the United States, and Israel and other countries during the period of 1933 to 1950. Million of Jews left Europe in that time period.

But you're not denying the Holocaust, right? :rolleyes:

King Mob wrote: »

So's the number of people killed in the Holocaust.

How can 6 million Jews have died if the Jews themselves claim 4 million Jews were still living in Europe in 1950.

Alamanac of 1933 a respected journal back then reported 9.5 million Jews lived in the whole of Europe.

5.5 million. Then how logical none of that 5.5 million Jews emigrated to the United States, and Israel and other countries during the period of 1933 to 1950. Million of Jews left Europe in that time period.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That's the historical record.

So's the number of people killed in the Holocaust.

King Mob wrote: »

I'm going to go with what actual historians say on the matter.
I'm not going to go with what you half remember from reading racist propaganda.

You are a holocaust denier.
If you are not comfortable with that label, maybe stop denying the holocaust?

That's the historical record. Goth was arrested in 1944 and put in a Mental home for the Insane in Bavaria. SS doctors diagnosed him suffering from a mental disease.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Nazis removed him because they did not agree with the way Amon Goth was running the camp. So what that means to the overall narrative in Auschwitz you have to make up your own mind on that

I'm going to go with what actual historians say on the matter.
I'm not going to go with what you half remember from reading racist propaganda.

You are a holocaust denier.
If you are not comfortable with that label, maybe stop denying the holocaust?

King Mob wrote: »

Again, what your doing is just a lesser form of holocaust denial.
It doesn't really excuse it.

The Nazis removed him because they did not agree with the way Amon Goth was running the camp. So what that means to the overall narrative in Auschwitz you have to make up your own mind on that

Fact: Göth was relieved of his position and charged by the SS with theft of Jewish property (which belonged to the state, according to Nazi legislation), failure to provide adequate food to the prisoners under his charge, violation of concentration camp regulations regarding the treatment and punishment of prisoners, and allowing unauthorised access to camp personnel records by prisoners and non-commissioned officers

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Holocaust denial is claiming no Jews were killed in concentration camps I don't support that theory at all. If you researched the most notorious camp Auschwitz, for example, you find out that Nazi SS removed Amon Goth the commandant of the camp for cruelty to Jews in 1944. They arrested him, and they put him in the mental home for the insane. Did you hear about this in Schindler list the movie?

Again, what your doing is just a lesser form of holocaust denial.
It doesn't really excuse it.

King Mob wrote: »

This is Holocaust denial.

Yes, you and the people you read and support have and are denying concentration camps existed.

You are claiming this because you have swallowed racist propaganda without critical thought.

But please, link away, I'm sure your sources aren't going to be horribly racist.

Holocaust denial is claiming no Jews were killed in concentration camps I don't support that theory at all. If you researched the most notorious camp Auschwitz, for example, you find out that Nazi SS removed Amon Goth the commandant of the camp for cruelty to Jews in 1944. They arrested him, and they put him in the mental home for the insane. Did you hear about this in Schindler list the movie?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nobody denying concentration camps existed, but another thing, to claim 6 million Jews were wiped out in a few years. The numbers don't add up because we have a census a historical record of how many Jews lived in Europe in 1933 it was 9.5 million.

After the war, there was 4 to 5 million still left in Europe. And many millions more emigrated to different countries during the period of 1933 to 1950.

And most 1 to 2 million Jews is unaccounted for.

This is Holocaust denial.

Yes, you and the people you read and support have and are denying concentration camps existed.

You are claiming this because you have swallowed racist propaganda without critical thought.

But please, link away, I'm sure your sources aren't going to be horribly racist.

King Mob wrote: »

But the Jews faked the Holocaust, yea?

Literally every point you make is unlined by the fact you deny the holocaust.
Either you are biased in some very irreparable way or you are incapable of determining racist propaganda from reality. Either way, no one's going to take you angle on things very seriously.

Also you harp on some one using Wikipedia, then link **** from the daily Express, and that is just hilarious.

Nobody denying concentration camps existed, but another thing, to claim 6 million Jews were wiped out in a few years. The numbers don't add up because we have a census a historical record of how many Jews lived in Europe in 1933 it was 9.5 million.

After the war, there was 4 to 5 million still left in Europe. And many millions more emigrated to different countries during the period of 1933 to 1950.

And most 1 to 2 million Jews is unaccounted for.

Chrongen wrote: »

But if that's the way you think the world works, or how it ought to work in your head then crack on.

But the Jews faked the Holocaust, yea?

Literally every point you make is unlined by the fact you deny the holocaust.
Either you are biased in some very irreparable way or you are incapable of determining racist propaganda from reality. Either way, no one's going to take you angle on things very seriously.

Also you harp on some one using Wikipedia, then link **** from the daily Express, and that is just hilarious.

"Novichok" vodka now available in Russia

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6146633/russia-novichok-vodka-jibe-salisbury-poisoning/

:pac::pac::pac:

Absolutely brilliant. They should have Teresa May and Boris Johnson shot glasses to go with each bottle.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And this bit

"The private intelligence is probably pretty convincing, it seemed to have a fairly immediate effect on a skeptical Trump and Macron. That aside, many countries are tired of Russia's information war and hybrid warfare, whch is a good as reason as any to boot out some intelligence agents diplomats"

For example, Macron, who's been trying to renew ties with Russia stated that he would remain skeptical on the issue - however after being presented with the UK intelligence dossier on the attack (apparently one of the largest ever shared in recent history) he entirely changed tack and kicked out diplomats.

Will be amusing if the investigation turns up some rogue agents or another country entirely.

Now Dohnjoe, you've already fairly weakly sidestepped a question and one that is very important when it comes to the LAW and INTERNATIONAL PROTOCOL.

On top of that "because they can" attempt on your part you are now throwing words [much as I asked you not to do] such as "probably" and "it seemed".

If I was to trawl back how many words such as "maybe" or "most likely" would I find?

You have now simply admitted that it's fine to expel diplomats. Not because of anything concrete but simply because you "can".

If you would like to take that attitude to a representative of every country in the world ... even at a scouts jamboree, you would be frowned upon and vilified.

But if that's the way you think the world works, or how it ought to work in your head then crack on.

Chrongen wrote: »

"Because they can"

is not an answer.

It's what you'd expect from a truculent adolescent who can't explain himself.

And this bit

"The private intelligence is probably pretty convincing, it seemed to have a fairly immediate effect on a skeptical Trump and Macron. That aside, many countries are tired of Russia's information war and hybrid warfare, whch is a good as reason as any to boot out some intelligence agents diplomats"

For example, Macron, who's been trying to renew ties with Russia stated that he would remain skeptical on the issue - however after being presented with the UK intelligence dossier on the attack (apparently one of the largest ever shared in recent history) he entirely changed tack and kicked out diplomats.

Will be amusing if the investigation turns up some rogue agents or another country entirely.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Have already replied to this.

"Because they can"

is not an answer.

It's what you'd expect from a truculent adolescent who can't explain himself.

Chrongen wrote: »

Dohnjoe. I think I made it very clear that a discussion herein with respect to subjects such as the veracity of Wikipedia or the numbers killed during the Holocaust was a discussion for another platform.

Why do you dwell on them?

Because it's a part of the pantomime of nonsense in these threads. Holocaust deniers and so on. But I will gladly move on

I asked you to explain why Russian diplomats were expelled even as an investigation is ongoing and heretofore inconclusive and you cannot answer the question.

Which I have replied to

Actually your explanation was something along the lines of "because they can [expel diplomats]"

A part of my answer

And why has one been expelled from the Republic of Ireland?

Likely because they've found the private intelligence to be compelling. Varadkar also mentioned solidarity with the UK and international community against use of chemical attacks.

It's good in that it sends a universal message to the Kremlin that they can't keep these antics up

mcmoustache

Chrongen wrote: »

And now we have this crap:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/951191/russia-news-novichok-sergei-skripal-creator-injured-moscow-car-crash

FFS, how absolutely pathetic are the attempts to make it look like a pair were poisoned by Putin?

:pac:

Ah, the crazy Express. By now I'd think that most people know that this particular incident was an accident and nothing nefarious.

And now we have this crap:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/951191/russia-news-novichok-sergei-skripal-creator-injured-moscow-car-crash

FFS, how absolutely pathetic are the attempts to make it look like a pair were poisoned by Putin?

:pac:

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood. If you have "no idea" of the numbers, you can reference Wiki.. it is sourced. You can check the sources. If you wish to go deeper you can correlate with further sources, e.g. historical sites, Holocaust history sites

You mentioned you were confused over the numbers. Those numbers take less time to reference, source, correlate with additional sources.. than it takes to write these replies

Dohnjoe. I think I made it very clear that a discussion herein with respect to subjects such as the veracity of Wikipedia or the numbers killed during the Holocaust was a discussion for another platform.

Why do you dwell on them?

Can we get back to the debate at hand?

If you bring up these subjects again then I will only think that you are not serious in your discussion.

Are you attempting to simply derail the conversation?

I asked you to explain why Russian diplomats were expelled even as an investigation is ongoing and heretofore inconclusive and you cannot answer the question.

Actually your explanation was something along the lines of "because they can [expel diplomats]"

So......without any proof that Russia and the Russian government produced, and delivered and attempted to kill Sergie Skripal with a nerve agent, and while an investigation is ongoing, WHY have Russian diplomats been expelled from many countries? And why has one been expelled from the Republic of Ireland?

It's a very simple question.

mcmoustache wrote: »

This is the Salisbury thread, right? I know that Russians love to firehose a thread with nonsense but this is getting ridiculous. Can you please start a separate thread on the holocaust as this is getting tiresome?

Dohnjoe talked the holocaust in his post I didn't mention till he did. Sure I invited him to make a new thread to discuss it there.

Im Irish and I live in Munster if you want to know, i not Russian.

mcmoustache

This is the Salisbury thread, right? I know that Russians love to firehose a thread with nonsense but this is getting ridiculous. Can you please start a separate thread on the holocaust as this is getting tiresome?

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Wow. Okay, go on so.. but create a separate thread

It takes too long to write up now I want to but I get it later I want to talk about 9/11 now. If you want to make a different thread I post in there later.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

6 million Jews is not backed up historical resources, the 6 million figure came from Jewish holocust online sites. I can prove the 6 million figure is bogus using historical resources.

Wow. Okay, go on so.. but create a separate thread

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't have any personal opinion. Historical consensus by experts is around 6 mm Jews.

6 million Jews is not backed up historical resources, the 6 million figure came from Jewish holocust online sites. I can prove the 6 million figure is bogus using historical resources.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Better question how many Jews do you think died in the camps and what historical sources did you look at?

I don't have any personal opinion. Historical consensus by experts is around 6 mm Jews.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I think you have misunderstood. If you have "no idea" of the numbers, you can reference Wiki.. it is sourced. You can check the sources. If you wish to go deeper you can correlate with further sources, e.g. historical sites, Holocaust history sites

You mentioned you were confused over the numbers. Those numbers take less time to reference, source, correlate with additional sources.. than it takes to write these replies

Better question how many Jews do you think died in the camps and what historical sources did you look at?

Chrongen wrote: »

Why were Russians expelled without a conclusion to the investigation that you say is ongoing?

Have already replied to this.