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Civil Servants Demanding Shorter Working Week

Creative83

Currently they are expected to work 37.5 hours per week. Jeez that seems very reasonable to me considering most private sector full time workers are on the standard 40 hour work.

They are now demanding to be reverted to 34.5 hours per week.

I have seen some shysters in my time but hard to top this bunch....

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/civil-servants-demand-shorter-working-week-36821698.html

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Shurimgreat

Meh.
Contractors do a lot of the work in the civil service anyways.
So they could reduce civil servants working hours to 0 and it wouldn't make much difference to their productivity.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

JohnnyFlash

The Union dude was given a right grilling by Pat Kenny this morning. Very little public support for this. Time to reject the demands of these self-entitled chancers.

Kuva

Civil servants entitled to paid time off for marital breakdown

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0411/953794-civil-servants-marital-leave/

Coming on the back of this aswell.

DPolo

On a completely unrelated note ....... where do you apply for these jobs ? Career change coming to mind here

Creative83

Kuva wrote: »

Civil servants entitled to paid time off for marital breakdown

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0411/953794-civil-servants-marital-leave/

Coming on the back of this aswell.

Yep, you couldn't make it up really

na1

Kuva wrote: »

Civil servants entitled to paid time off for marital breakdown

Should we legalize civil servant marriages like gay marriages?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

From a Civil Servant's point of view, this is embarrassing. The actual workers on the ground aren't demanding a shorter working week. Out of 8 of us here in my office, nobody supports trying to claw those extra hours back. We're happy enough. We've had a bit of pay restoration, which is what most people were more worried about. Just leave well enough alone ffs.

This is just a case of the unions trying to make themselves look busy. Again, I have to say, I'm just embarrassed. Lads like him are making us all look like money grabbing, self-entitled layabouts.

Feck it, I'll say it once more, this is embarrassing.

spurious

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

From a Civil Servant's point of view, this is embarrassing. The actual workers on the ground aren't demanding a shorter working week. Out of 8 of us here in my office, nobody supports trying to claw those extra hours back. We're happy enough. We've had a bit of pay restoration, which is what most people were more worried about. Just leave well enough alone ffs.

This is just a case of the unions trying to make themselves look busy. Again, I have to say, I'm just embarrassed. Lads like him are making us all look like money grabbing, self-entitled layabouts.

Feck it, I'll say it once more, this is embarrassing.

Don't worry, it won't stop the bashers.

ratracer

I’m very surprised this took until noon to get its own thread....

Birneybau

This talk of hours 'cut'. If by 'cut' it means returning to how they were before the crash, well, why aren't they referred to as exactly that. They're not fcuking cut.

And the option is there for people to revert to 6:57 a day, losing 2 hours pay a week.

So, the only thing being 'cut' is pay. To the tune of almost 10 hours worth every 4 weeks.

Birneybau

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It has taken me 11 years to reach the average industrial wage. But sure, believe the Indo.

And I take a 30 minute lunch break (the minimum). Any longer and I have to stay later. It's flexi time.

Creative83

Birneybau wrote: »

It has taken me 11 years to reach the average industrial wage. But sure, believe the Indo.

And I take a 30 minute lunch break (the minimum). Any longer and I have to stay later. It's flexi time.

What is the average industrial wage in your view... lots of different figures flying around

Birneybau

Creative83 wrote: »

What is the average industrial wage in your view... lots of different figures flying around

Well, it was €35k a few years ago. I'm sure it's more now.

All I'm saying is that Civil Servants wages are transparent, they should be available through a web search. This ridiculous notion that we're all on the pig's back.

The vast bulk of staff would be H.E.O. and below (page 7):

http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2017/22.pdf

mikemac2

Kuva wrote: »

Civil servants entitled to paid time off for marital breakdown

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0411/953794-civil-servants-marital-leave/

Coming on the back of this aswell.

It’s 1.5 days and only a tiny fraction of staff will ever claim it.

If an employee is stressed over court appearances and custody battles the 1.5 days will help them

Little goodwill here

PhoenixParker

mikemac2 wrote: »

It’s 1.5 days and only a tiny fraction of staff will ever claim it.

If an employee is stressed over court appearances and custody battles the 1.5 days will help them

Little goodwill here

Anyone in that situation can go to the doctor and get a sick note for stress for far longer. In any normal company, public or private only the most assholish boss would quibble.
Labeling it leave for marital breakdown is a meaningless nicety.
It’s not something anyone on either side to get worked up over.

Riskymove

where to start?

Indo says "Civil servants will today demand a shorter working week having largely won a battle to get their pay cuts reversed."

reality: "A Union will today debate a motion calling on their Executive to negotiate the ending of extra unpaid hours imposed on some civil servants"

Indo says: "They work from 9am to 5.45pm Monday to Thursday and from 9am to 5.15pm on Friday, with a lunch break of one hour and 15 minutes."

Reality: "the affected civil servants are on flexitime so work a variety of work patterns from 0730 in the morning and 1900 in the evening."

Indo says: "Almost 8pc (of surveyed private sector) worked 43 hours or more."

Reality: "guess what, plenty of public servants work over 43 hours a week too (and unpaid at that)"

PhoenixParker

Riskymove wrote: »

where to start?

Indo says "Civil servants will today demand a shorter working week having largely won a battle to get their pay cuts reversed."

reality: "A Union will today debate a motion calling on their Executive to negotiate the ending of extra unpaid hours imposed on some civil servants"

Indo says: "They work from 9am to 5.45pm Monday to Thursday and from 9am to 5.15pm on Friday, with a lunch break of one hour and 15 minutes."

Reality: "the affected civil servants are on flexitime so work a variety of work patterns from 0730 in the morning and 1900 in the evening."

Indo says: "Almost 8pc (of surveyed private sector) worked 43 hours or more."

Reality: "guess what, plenty of public servants work over 43 hours a week too (and unpaid at that)"

Some clarity on this.

Most civil servants are at CO, EO and HEO grades, admin, junior and middle managers basically.
They almost all work flextime, which is to work an average of 7 24 a day, and having to be in for morning and afternoon core hours. They must take a minimum half hour break for lunch which isn’t included in the 724.

Except for the 6 minute difference between 724 and 730 a day that’s a very standard set up for private businesses with office based work.

Higher grades don’t usually get flexi and are forced to include a 1hr 15 min lunch break in their working day resulting in them having to be in the office 9 to 545/530 as above. I suspect most people would prefer to have a shorter mandatory lunch break and to get home earlier.

na1

PhoenixParker wrote: »

. I suspect most people would prefer to have a shorter mandatory lunch break and to get home earlier.

Most private sector workers would prefer to take the public sector job, with [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]€916 [/font]average weekly payslip,
secure job and pension entitlements.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/weekly-public-private-sector-pay-difference-widens-to-247-1.3097576

Shurimgreat

I will go further. I believe the entire Civil Service could be run more cheaply and efficiently by Contracted companies - instead of having thousands of civil servants today who do little yet draw down huge pensions, etc.

[Deleted User]

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I take about the 1hr 20 to 1hr 30mins most days. 20 mins or to walk to/from town which ever place I choose to get a sandwich (maybe longer if I need to go into any shops along the way). Back to the office and get tea and sit eating, drinking tea and chatting then get a coffee and some more chatting which all adds up to an hour or so. People generally take as long or as short a lunch as they want in our place.

Actual hours worked have little to do with productivity, often having less working hours gets more done as you are forced to actually be fully concentrated on the work whereas if you are not under pressure you will naturally stretch out the work with extra breaks and talking to people, browsing the internet etc.

That being said I think its a move to a 4 day week is what people should be looking for rather than reducing hours, even if you had to work the full 37.5 hrs in 4 days but have a 3 day weekend.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Civil Servants are not asking for a 'shorter working day'. They are asking for their normal working hours, which were extended during the recession along with pay cuts, and holiday and sick leave reductions, to be restored to them, now that the recession is over and we are no longer in an 'emergency' situation.

Honestly, the way some private sector workers go on. You'd swear they were all models of efficiency, dedication and hard work, and all public service employees are lazy, work shy, inefficient chancers.

The truth, of course, is that you will find all sorts of types in every type of employment.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I will go further. I believe the entire Civil Service could be run more cheaply and efficiently by Contracted companies - instead of having thousands of civil servants today who do little yet draw down huge pensions, etc.

Apt username there.

Ursus Horribilis

I'm a former public servant and I never took an hour for lunch. Nobody in the office ever did. We worked flexi hours and we clocked in and out for lunch. So if anyone took a long lunch break it meant they'd have to make up for it by staying longer or coming in earlier. And despite those tired old stereotypes, where I worked people weren't sitting on their arses all day playing Solitaire. There were deadlines set and targets to be met.

I've a friend who's a union rep and he's not happy about that motion. It's not a good look, to put it mildly. He also reckons there's a snowball's hope in hell of the shorter hours coming back. A 9-5 is the industry norm.

awec

Christina Loud Pinball wrote: »

Civil Servants are not asking for a 'shorter working day'. They are asking for their normal working hours, which were extended during the recession along with pay cuts, and holiday and sick leave reductions, to be restored to them, now that the recession is over and we are no longer in an 'emergency' situation.

Honestly, the way some private sector workers go on. You'd swear they were all models of efficiency, dedication and hard work, and all public service employees are lazy, work shy, inefficient chancers.

The truth, of course, is that you will find all sorts of types in every type of employment.

Asking for a shorter working week when the public sector is already an under-worked, overpaid bloated heap of ****e is not really doing much to dispel this point of view.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

awec wrote: »

Asking for a shorter working week when the public sector is already an under-worked, overpaid bloated heap of ****e is not really doing much to dispel this point of view.

As I already said, that's the Union just taking a ball up off the ground and running with it. Most Civil Servants have enough cop on to know that this looks bad.

Danny Donut

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

From a Civil Servant's point of view, this is embarrassing. The actual workers on the ground aren't demanding a shorter working week. Out of 8 of us here in my office, nobody supports trying to claw those extra hours back. We're happy enough. We've had a bit of pay restoration, which is what most people were more worried about. Just leave well enough alone ffs.

This is just a case of the unions trying to make themselves look busy. Again, I have to say, I'm just embarrassed. Lads like him are making us all look like money grabbing, self-entitled layabouts.

Feck it, I'll say it once more, this is embarrassing.

Worked in the civil service in the uk for a couple of years. It was mind dumbing dull and pretty p-poor money.

Most people then were concerned about money. Union conferences would instruct the big knobs to demand more money and it would come back some derisory amount but with an increase in some obscure special leave category - which was as good as, so we were told.

Birneybau

na1 wrote: »

Most private sector workers would prefer to take the public sector job, with [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]€916 [/font]average weekly payslip,
secure job and pension entitlements.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/weekly-public-private-sector-pay-difference-widens-to-247-1.3097576

Again, page 7:

http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2017/22.pdf

Also, there's nothing fcuking stopping people going for jobs in the Public Service, has been a massive recruitment drive the last few months. But hey, grade dependent, who wants to start at €22k?

PhoenixParker

na1 wrote: »

Most private sector workers would prefer to take the public sector job, with [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]€916 [/font]average weekly payslip,
secure job and pension entitlements.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/weekly-public-private-sector-pay-difference-widens-to-247-1.3097576

That’s public sector not civil service.
Big and important difference.
Public sector includes all hospital staff, teachers, Gards etc. as well as civil service.

The public sector average is not reflective of the civil service average.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.