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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

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StringerBell

notobtuse wrote: »

It’s not "She did this stuff that's wrong.” It’s why are we investigating something based on false and faulty information regarding one party, when we have what could be considered clear evidence of wrongdoing by another party and of which is being ignored. Justice under the law should be blind as to what party someone belongs to. But apparently it isn’t, IMO

You want to go after Trump… fine. But the bigger and more serious crimes look to have been committed by Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Susan Rice, Ben Rhodes, Samantha Power, James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey and the DNC. Shouldn’t we be going after the more serious crimes regarding Russian collusion, fixing an election and possible sedition first? IMO

Great, I'll ignore the bit about false and faulty information for the sake of not going round in circles but why not start a thread about it and discuss it (Hilary and whoever else you want) there?

To constantly use whataboutery in this thread will do nothing but detract from any pertinent points you may have.

You want to go after Hilary Clinton et al, fine. Can't we go after everybody who is found to be, or suspected to be in breach of the law? Trump is the president so probably best to make sure he is clean first considering the position of power he holds IMO

If he is dirty it is more of a national security concern than if HC was dirty during the election she lost.

notobtuse

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

I make fun of myself and I'm classified as disabled with having broken my neck. Does that count?

No. Do you mock other disabled people?

Other disabled people... No. But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy. But this is getting away from the topic so I'll stop with this.

Leroy42

notobtuse wrote: »

Other disabled people... No. But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy. But this is getting away from the topic so I'll stop with this.

You seem to get aggravated a lot based on a total lack of facts or context.

notobtuse

Leroy42 wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

With that kind of logic everything is racist. IMO

Notobuse, you say you are open to criticism of Trump, yet when he's clearly racist remarks are highlighted the best you can come with it is the above. Do you think any of the remarks were racist? Do you think it was right he picked he decided that the Nazi's needed the protection of POTUS?

The problem you are having is that you are so seemingly intent on defending Trump that you are willing to forego any sense of personal credibility.

You have a problem with HC using Fusion GPS for dirt on Trump, but nothing at all to say on Trump Jr turning to the Russian government. You seem to see nothing wrong with Trump lying to protect his son.

You see nothing wrong with Trump having affairs and paying hush money. You see nothing wrong with Trump slapping down Tillerson for mentioning talks with NK, yet claiming Pompeo is great for doing the same. You have no issue with Trump completely rowing back on his stance on sanctions against Russia.

Park your hatred for HC and the DNC for a second, because whether they are guilty or not has no impact on Trump. He is the leader of the US. He has just signed off, without reading, a 1.3tn spending plan. He had passed a tax cut that on current models will lead to massive tax revenue impact on the US.

How can any proud American cheer when their POTUS has become such a windbag against Russia? How can they cheer when he has landed America in such massive additional debt? How can they cheer when he has forced open to the fissures in society? How can you cheer when he goes against every conservative ideal?

Government spending is increasing, he is actively attacking the states rights to make their own decisions, he continues to fund planned parenthood, he completely, totally, miserably failed to deliver on his signature promise to repeal and replace.

He has failed to go after HC (you keep mentioning why someone hasn't done it, you should ask him and the GOP not shift the blame to someone else). He has failed to do anything about Russia interference. My god, how can any proud American watch as POTUS fails to even ask the president of Russia about this. America beat the US in the cold war and now they have a POTUS that is afraid of Putin.

The man is so scared of Putin that rather than annoy Putin he hung out to dry the second senior diplomat he had, and the woman that had gone to war with the UN for him.

Free speech must be protected, even speech that is offensive. Do I think he has said some things that are offensive in private, sure. I think everyone has. I don't like people that put things out into the media and refuse to give their names behind it. They're cowards in my book.

People have affairs. Did he have an affair in private office or while POTUS? Other presidents did while in office. So why is Trump the devil for it?

A lot of people here think Planned Parenthood should not be funded by government money.

I've been called deplorable with no redeeming qualities. So what! I'm not going to cry over it.

And the spending bill is terrible and I blame him for not vetoing it. Happy?

notobtuse

Leroy42 wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

Other disabled people... No. But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy. But this is getting away from the topic so I'll stop with this.

You seem to get aggravated a lot based on a total lack of facts or context.

I never said I was perfect. In fact I said I wasn't perfect.

Professor Moriarty

notobtuse wrote: »

Other disabled people... No. But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy. But this is getting away from the topic so I'll stop with this.

No, we're on topic. So are you happy with this performance by The Donald?

Here is a picture of the reporter he was talking about.

FingerDeKat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No, we're on topic. So are you happy with this performance by The Donald?

Here is a picture of the reporter he was talking about.

He really is a muppet

Professor Moriarty

FingerDeKat wrote: »

He really is a muppet

Muppets aren't that bad.

everlast75

notobtuse wrote: »

Other disabled people... No. But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy. But this is getting away from the topic so I'll stop with this.

So, after all he has done... what WOULD it take for you to say he was an awful president.

Be honest

Mumha

everlast75 wrote: »

Big news..

Another headache for The Don.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/986716007019565056?s=19

PS - the lawyer who acted for McDougal (Richardson) is the same lawyer who acted for Daniels. So if this agreement is weak enough to be voided after the raid on Cohen's office, Daniels' may very well be too.

2 further things.

Daniels could be put down to a mistake by Trump to his evangelical base, but McDougal was a full on affair. Harder to explain away.

Secondly, adultery is a crime in NY, so technically he has committed a crime, which (to any other President would be an impeachable offence

One mulligan, two mulligan, three mulligan, four ....

Mumha

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/986725071053090816

oscarBravo

notobtuse wrote: »

But I do get aggravated with some who have handicapped cards on their rear view windows, with no visible signs of a disability who take up the special parking spots, leaving people with walking disabilities no place to park that are handy.

So you feel qualified to judge whether or not people are sufficiently disabled to deserve a parking permit based on nothing more than a brief visual observation.

I'm afraid I find that all too believable, consider your unceasing torrent of "I don't need facts, I have strongly-held uninformed opinions!" on this thread.

Unfortunately, people with "invisible" disabilities have to put up with dickishness similar to what you've cheerfully espoused above all the time. But then, if you're OK with a presidential candidate mocking a disabled person, we shouldn't really be surprised when you're not ashamed of being a dick towards disabled people yourself.

Hurrache

everlast75 wrote: »

So, after all he has done... what WOULD it take for you to say he was an awful president.

Be honest

Be a democrat can be the only answer at this stage from him.

Mumha

https://twitter.com/JohnFugelsang/status/986061951859118081

Hurrache

Belief in some parts that Trump may move to fire Mueller soon, Pittsburgh Police gearing up for large scale protests by asking its detectives to bring in their riot and crowd control equipment

https://twitter.com/MCipriani_WTAE/status/986635152913780736?s=19

https://twitter.com/MCipriani_WTAE/status/986693307647561730?s=19

Maybe just s local mayor being a tad over zealous.

Loafing Oaf

Hurrache wrote: »

Belief in some parts that Trump may move to fire Mueller soon, Pittsburgh Police gearing up for large scale protests by asking its detectives to bring in their riot and crowd control equipment

https://twitter.com/MCipriani_WTAE/status/986635152913780736?s=19

https://twitter.com/MCipriani_WTAE/status/986693307647561730?s=19

Maybe just s local mayor being a tad over zealous.

Yeah I wonder is there any particular reason for Pittsburgh to be making these preparations. Are the people there known for their reverence for the separation of powers?

Peregrinus

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah I wonder is there any particular reason for Pittsburgh to be making these preparations. Are the people there known for their reverence for the separation of powers?

Pittsburgh is just the city mentioned in these particular tweets, but it's unlikely to be the only place where contingency plans are being made. The possiblity of an attempt by Trump to fire Mueller has been widely flagged, and causes much concern to Americans who value democracy and the rule of law, which is quite a lot of them. Contingency plans are being made by through moveon.org and others for widespread demonstrations if Trump attempts to fire Mueller; there will be equally widespread contingency plans for responding to those demonstrations.

Christy42

notobtuse wrote: »

Free speech must be protected, even speech that is offensive. Do I think he has said some things that are offensive in private, sure. I think everyone has. I don't like people that put things out into the media and refuse to give their names behind it. They're cowards in my book.

People have affairs. Did he have an affair in private office or while POTUS? Other presidents did while in office. So why is Trump the devil for it?

A lot of people here think Planned Parenthood should not be funded by government money.

I've been called deplorable with no redeeming qualities. So what! I'm not going to cry over it.

And the spending bill is terrible and I blame him for not vetoing it. Happy?

Sure freedom of speech is a thing but it does not mean you have to be considered a good person. I see no reason to arrest Trump over his Mexican immigrants are rapists remarks but it also makes him a complete and utter piece of scum in my book. Scummy people should not be president in my view. Seems reasonable. Nowhere in freedom of speech does it say I have to consider the speaker a good person and so it is not relevant here.

The affair, I care less about. Certainly it makes him a bad human being but it is less dangerous than encouraging negative views of part of the population. It will be absolutely hilarious when the evangelists turn around and start shouting that the next democrat candidate is not god fearing enough or whatever.

dr.fuzzenstein

Hurrache wrote: »

Be a democrat can be the only answer at this stage from him.

And black.
Honestly, there is no point in discussing this with a Trump supporter.
A Trump supporter will always be a Trump supporter, as the man himself said, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his followers would only dig in deeper and become more rabid.
They will follow Trump no matter what.
Trump could destroy their jobs, social welfare, healthcare, the country, the rest of the world, they would wave their arms, stomp their feet and they would whoop and holler for it.
And they would blame Obama or Hillary for it.
The only thing Trump could do to lose them is fight for equality (for women AND black people, yikes!), become an environmentalist and tolerant of other beliefs. You know, become a decent human being.
They elected Trump because he is a slime ball and a cnut. And the more he is exactly that, the more they will follow him to the inevitable outcome of America sliding into self destruction. They will scream and cheer as the Titanic slips beneath the waves.

VinLieger

Hurrache wrote: »

Be a democrat can be the only answer at this stage from him.

Its pointless interacting with them anymore

everlast75

Hurrache wrote: »

Be a democrat can be the only answer at this stage from him.

He was a democrat..

Mumha

##Mod Note##
Don't link dump..

Thanks

MadYaker

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And black.
Honestly, there is no point in discussing this with a Trump supporter.
A Trump supporter will always be a Trump supporter, as the man himself said, he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his followers would only dig in deeper and become more rabid.
They will follow Trump no matter what.
Trump could destroy their jobs, social welfare, healthcare, the country, the rest of the world, they would wave their arms, stomp their feet and they would whoop and holler for it.
And they would blame Obama or Hillary for it.
The only thing Trump could do to lose them is fight for equality (for women AND black people, yikes!), become an environmentalist and tolerant of other beliefs. You know, become a decent human being.
They elected Trump because he is a slime ball and a cnut. And the more he is exactly that, the more they will follow him to the inevitable outcome of America sliding into self destruction. They will scream and cheer as the Titanic slips beneath the waves.

Sure when he signed that spending bill filled with money for stuff his supporters hate (sanctuary cities, 700 billion for the military etc) and no funding for the wall they just gave him a pass on it. He’s been doing u turns constantly. It’s a personality cult and always has been.

Leroy42

Thats another area I left out (in my defence it is hard to keep up)

He promised that Mexico was going to pay for the wall, and it turns out that he completely lied about it. Now every American is going have to pay. Now his supporters will come back on simply say the wall is needed, but that isn't the point. He stated, repeatedly, that Mexico would pay for and therefore he didn't ever have to provide any details of where the 20+bn was going to come from.

If he lied about his signature plan, how can anybody claim that he is credible and doing a good job?

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Thats another area I left out (in my defence it is hard to keep up)

He promised that Mexico was going to pay for the wall, and it turns out that he completely lied about it. Now every American is going have to pay. Now his supporters will come back on simply say the wall is needed, but that isn't the point. He stated, repeatedly, that Mexico would pay for and therefore he didn't ever have to provide any details of where the 20+bn was going to come from.

If he lied about his signature plan, how can anybody claim that he is credible and doing a good job?

To be fair, if his mouth is moving, he's lying.

everlast75

I was reading an opinion piece this morning on DJT, and the view expressed was that he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'll come back to that in a minute but the opinion said that people with NPD usually behave with two prime instincts.

1) avoid shame
2) collect adoration

Nothing else is important to them. I read this and thought that sounds about right.

So I checked for the more detailed symptoms of NPD. Have a read through the following and see how it lines up with DJT's behaviour.

What is narcissistic personality disorder?
The word narcissism gets tossed around a lot in our selfie-obsessed, celebrity-driven culture, often to describe someone who seems excessively vain or full of themselves. But in psychological terms, narcissism doesn’t mean self-love—at least not of a genuine sort. It’s more accurate to say that people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are in love with an idealized, grandiose image of themselves. And they’re in love with this inflated self-image precisely because it allows them to avoid deep feelings of insecurity. But propping up their delusions of grandeur takes a lot of work—and that’s where the dysfunctional attitudes and behaviors come in.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving can be seen in every area of the narcissist’s life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.

People with narcissistic personality disorder are extremely resistant to changing their behavior, even when it’s causing them problems. Their tendency is to turn the blame on to others. What’s more, they are extremely sensitive and react badly to even the slightest criticisms, disagreements, or perceived slights, which they view as personal attacks. For the people in the narcissist’s life, it’s often easier just to go along with their demands to avoid the coldness and rages.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder
1) Grandiose sense of self-importance
Grandiosity is the defining characteristic of narcissism. More than just arrogance or vanity, grandiosity is an unrealistic sense of superiority. Narcissists believe they are unique or “special” and can only be understood by other special people. What’s more, they are too good for anything average or ordinary. They only want to associate and be associated with other high-status people, places, and things.

2) Narcissists also believe that they’re better than everyone else and expect to be recognized as such—even when they’ve done nothing to earn that recognition. They will often exaggerate or outright lie about their achievements and talents. And when they talk about work or relationships, all you’ll hear is how much they do, how great they are, and how lucky the people in their lives are to have them. They are the undisputed star and everyone else is at best a bit player.

3) Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur
Since reality doesn’t support their grandiose view of themselves, narcissists live in a fantasy world propped up by distortion, self-deception, and magical thinking. They spin self-glorifying fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, attractiveness, and ideal love that make them feel special and in control. These fantasies protect them from feelings of inner emptiness and shame, so facts and opinions that contradict them are ignored or rationalized away. Anything that threatens to burst the fantasy bubble is met with extreme defensiveness and even rage, so those around the narcissist learn to tread carefully around their denial of reality.

4) Needs constant praise and admiration
A narcissist’s sense of superiority is like a balloon that gradually loses air without a steady stream of applause and recognition to keep it inflated. The occasional compliment is not enough. Narcissists need constant food for their ego, so they surround themselves with people who are willing to cater to their obsessive craving for affirmation. These relationships are very one-sided. It’s all about what the admirer can do for the narcissist, never the other way around. And if there is ever an interruption or diminishment in the admirer’s attention and praise, the narcissist treats it as a betrayal.

5) Sense of entitlement
Because they consider themselves special, narcissists expect favorable treatment as their due. They truly believe that whatever they want, they should get. They also expect the people around them to automatically comply with their every wish and whim. That is their only value. If you don’t anticipate and meet their every need, then you’re useless. And if you have the nerve to defy their will or “selfishly” ask for something in return, prepare yourself for aggression, outrage, or the cold shoulder.

6) Exploits others without guilt or shame
Narcissists never develop the ability to identify with the feelings of others—to put themselves in other people’s shoes. In other words, they lack empathy. In many ways, they view the people in their lives as objects—there to serve their needs. As a consequence, they don’t think twice about taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends. Sometimes this interpersonal exploitation is malicious, but often it is simply oblivious. Narcissists simply don’t think about how their behavior affects others. And if you point it out, they still won’t truly get it. The only thing they understand is their own needs.

7) Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others
Narcissists feel threatened whenever they encounter someone who appears to have something they lack—especially those who are confident and popular. They’re also threatened by people who don’t kowtow to them or who challenge them in any way. Their defense mechanism is contempt. The only way to neutralize the threat and prop up their own sagging ego is to put those people down. They may do it in a patronizing or dismissive way as if to demonstrate how little the other person means to them. Or they may go on the attack with insults, name-calling, bullying, and threats to force the other person back into line.

You only need 5 out of 7 for a clinical diagnosis. I think given that there are multiple examples over the last 2 years, DJT has the entire lot!

Hurrache

everlast75 wrote: »

I was reading an opinion piece this morning on DJT, and the view expressed was that he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Sure look at one of his tweets from yesterday. Most normal people would say I was out playing golf with my buddy, but Trump takes every opportunity to pimp his own name and businesses

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/986711015630036992

everlast75

Hurrache wrote: »

Sure look at one of his tweets from yesterday. Most normal people would say I was out playing golf with my buddy, but Trump takes every opportunity to pimp his own name and businesses

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/986711015630036992

Yep. All of his tweets fit into the diagnosis.

As I was reading the symptoms, examples were popping into my head of each one.

He is textbook!

spacecoyote

Hurrache wrote: »

Sure look at one of his tweets from yesterday. Most normal people would say I was out playing golf with my buddy, but Trump takes every opportunity to pimp his own name and businesses

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/986711015630036992

Plus more money made by the Trump company presumably by billing the secret service, etc... for following him around his own golf course

everlast75

Interesting development (again).

The Steele dossier was much maligned and discredited by Republicans, with one of the main "facts" that went to its credibility was the allegation that Cohen went to Prague for nefarious purposes. Cohen never went, ergo the dossier was nonsense.

Cohen denied it at the time and tweeted a pic of the front of his passport to "prove" that he never has been to prague.

Two parties claim he was - Cohen issues proceedings.

In the last week or so, it was reported that Mueller has proof that Cohen was in Prague. It was reported with two strong sources as proof.

Lo and behold, Cohen today drops both defamation suits

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/michael-cohen-drops-buzzfeed-fusion-lawsuit-537327

As I said, the "fact" that Cohen was never in Prague was the go-to argument for those that wanted to discredit and ridicule the dossier.

If it is proven that he was in Prague, then surely that is a huge concession and perhaps proves after all that DJT did have that golden shower party..