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The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

Jimmy Garlic

He has to be one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known, not just a stuffed suit like his wooden American counterpart. His steadfast resolve in the face of a proxy war being waged in Ukraine has to be admired, a war that would never have happened if billions weren't poured into Ukraine to kickstart a coup.

Like him or loathe him there is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a very shrewd operator who is consistently one step ahead of the game.

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Gringo180

Billy86 wrote: »

You'll struggle to find almost anyone here who thinks the US healthcare system is a rotten joke, but that's hardly an area to be bragging about when life expectancy in Russia ranks below North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Guatemala and Suriname as per the WHO, at #110 in the entire world.

And Syria, Iraq, Belize, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, etc by the UN (though beating North Korea out by about 1-2 weeks' expectancy!), who have them at #126 in the world.

For reference the US is #31 and #43 respectively in those lists; Ireland is at #19 and #23 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Take there climate into account for life expectancy. I wouldnt think you would live too long in the likes of Siberia.

Billy86

gandalf wrote: »

Oh absolutely the Americans are messed up from that perspective. The question is how long can Russia continue to offer free healthcare with no economy.

In 2014, they closed 28 hospitals and laid off 10,000 healthcare staff in Moscow alone - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/thousands-of-hospital-staff-to-be-sacked-in-russian-healthcare-reforms-9891710.html

Billy86

Gringo180 wrote: »

And yet it still provides free healthcare to all its citizens. Unlike the richest country in the world, were military spending seems more important than there peoples well being.

You'll struggle to find almost anyone here who thinks the US healthcare system is (edit) anything but a rotten joke, but that's hardly an area to be bragging about when life expectancy in Russia ranks below North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Guatemala and Suriname as per the WHO, at #110 in the entire world.

And Syria, Iraq, Belize, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, etc by the UN (though beating North Korea out by about 1-2 weeks' expectancy!), who have them at #126 in the world.

For reference the US is #31 and #43 respectively in those lists; Ireland is at #19 and #23 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

gandalf

Gringo180 wrote: »

A third world country that has been under sanctions by the Americans has done it for the last few decades(they dont even have to get into debt to go to college) so surely the Russians can too

Yes but Russians have a Mafioso leadership class that is bleeding the economy dry of billions as well.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Putin didn't have to do anything

He couldn't do anything

Have the russian airforce found anything yet

Gringo180

gandalf wrote: »

Oh absolutely the Americans are messed up from that perspective. The question is how long can Russia continue to offer free healthcare with no economy.

A third world country that has been under sanctions by the Americans has done it for the last few decades(they dont even have to get into debt to go to college) so surely the Russians can too

gandalf

Gringo180 wrote: »

And yet it still provides free healthcare to all its citizens. Unlike the richest country in the world, were military spending seems more important than there peoples well being.

Oh absolutely the Americans are messed up from that perspective. The question is how long can Russia continue to offer free healthcare with no economy.

Incredibles II

Dinarius wrote: »

It’s that the “response” involved no danger to anyone of importance, least of all (heaven forbid!) Russian forces, that is truly galling.

It was a joke, pure and simple. It didn’t even amount to a slap on the wrist for Assad or Putin.

500,000 are slaughtered using “conventional” weapons, and we “respond” when a couple of hundred die from a chemical weapon attack. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling. Slaughter IS slaughter. Bugger the means used to do it.

I hate Putin utterly, but he is no hypocrite, unlike our lot.

That said, this phoney war posturing by the West is probably better than a real war.

D.

Putin is a muppet.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

100+ Cruise missiles , multiple aircraft from multiple countries

And an another set of airstrikes from Israel inside Syria to really rub it in

And what did putin do

Putin didn't have to do anything. This fireworks display over Syria was all a hollywood showbiz stunt. The Russians were informed well in advance and anyhow Israel and the US wouldn't have the balls to aim a missile anywhere near a Russian installation. All that was hit were a few disused buildings.

Gringo180

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Russian economy and shrinking.

And yet it still provides free healthcare to all its citizens. Unlike the richest country in the world, were military spending seems more important than there peoples well being.

Dinarius

It’s that the “response” involved no danger to anyone of importance, least of all (heaven forbid!) Russian forces, that is truly galling.

It was a joke, pure and simple. It didn’t even amount to a slap on the wrist for Assad or Putin.

500,000 are slaughtered using “conventional” weapons, and we “respond” when a couple of hundred die from a chemical weapon attack. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling. Slaughter IS slaughter. Bugger the means used to do it.

I hate Putin utterly, but he is no hypocrite, unlike our lot.

That said, this phoney war posturing by the West is probably better than a real war.

D.

gandalf

Of course they are coming closer Russia has natural resources and a shrinking population with a dying economy and China wants those resources. If I were the Russians I'd be careful 4700kms of border with a resource hungry growing neighbour could prove very costly for them

Gatling

But it's absolutely safe to say putin Got Punked .

We fight and defend Assad

We will defend all Syria

We will shoot down every missle

We will target any where missiles are launched from

100+ Cruise missiles , multiple aircraft from multiple countries

And an another set of airstrikes from Israel inside Syria to really rub it in

And what did putin do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ksAzEJFlQg

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

China do it regularly it's nothing to do with russia

They are coming closer economically and militarily by the day - the world will have to get it's head out of the sand and accept the fact.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

. At the moment China is carrying out live fire drills near Taiwan in

China do it regularly it's nothing to do with russia

Elmer Blooker

Tea drinker wrote: »

Russia is quite cornered now... might have been able to agree limited strikes rather than game change in Syria, but the follow on US sanctions could be grim reading for old Putin.

At least Russia have the Chinese on their side. At the moment China is carrying out live fire drills near Taiwan in support of Russia.
We are not sure what state the US economy is in but surely a day will come when dropping bombs and missiles on anyone who stands in their way will not be enough to save the dollar.

Tea drinker

Russia is quite cornered now... might have been able to agree limited strikes rather than game change in Syria, but the follow on US sanctions could be grim reading for old Putin.

Kermit.de.frog

The Russian economy and shrinking.

Kermit.de.frog

Jimmy Garlic

Tea drinker wrote: »

Did we get the samee solidarity from EU and rest of world when Mossad made use of our passports to go kill a guy in Dubai?

You need to get with the reality. There is the reason we are told then there is the real reason.

Tea drinker

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Porton Down ten kilometres away from Sailsbury. Still no proof to connect Russia, nothing, just accusation. "Most likely", "almost certainly" and other vagueness. I think Vladimir Vladimirovich must find it humourous. Leo Varadkar is being a good boy and doing as he is told based on nothing. I hope damaging irelands good relationship with Russia is worth the pat on the head.

Did we get the samee solidarity from EU and rest of world when Mossad made use of our passports to go kill a guy in Dubai?

Jimmy Garlic

Thomas__. wrote: »

Sure, you know that former KGB agents know their professions and haven't forgotten about their skills to leave as less traced as possible but those who are intended to be left in order to confuse or mislead the investigations. It is evident that the poison used in this incident was developed in Russia, the former USSR to be precise. No evidence found for his interference in the USA presidential elections, but many things are traced back to Russia and one might wonder, why Russian hackers are having such a great times if not by the approval of Putin himself who likes to control everything that goes on in his country and among his people.

There were several republic s in the USSR, Ukraine for example. Assuming that such a nerve agent was used, and at this point there is no proof just assertions of the British government, other Soviet republics would have had access to such material. Whatever the case it is obvious that the whole thing is a concoction designed to coincide with the reelection of Vladimir Vladimirovich. A pathetic ploy by the increasingly irrelevant British to position themselves on a moral high horse and point at the "bad man".

Thomas__.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Porton Down ten kilometres away from Sailsbury. Still no proof to connect Russia, nothing, just accusation. "Most likely", "almost certainly" and other vagueness. I think Vladimir Vladimirovich must find it humourous. Leo Varadkar is being a good boy and doing as he is told based on nothing. I hope damaging irelands good relationship with Russia is worth the pat on the head.

Sure, you know that former KGB agents know their professions and haven't forgotten about their skills to leave as less traced as possible but those who are intended to be left in order to confuse or mislead the investigations. It is evident that the poison used in this incident was developed in Russia, the former USSR to be precise. No evidence found for his interference in the USA presidential elections, but many things are traced back to Russia and one might wonder, why Russian hackers are having such a great times if not by the approval of Putin himself who likes to control everything that goes on in his country and among his people.

Thomas__.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

He has to be one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known, not just a stuffed suit like his wooden American counterpart. His steadfast resolve in the face of a proxy war being waged in Ukraine has to be admired, a war that would never have happened if billions weren't poured into Ukraine to kickstart a coup.

Like him or loathe him there is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a very shrewd operator who is consistently one step ahead of the game.

Three years later, would you still say the same in the light of what happened since?

In my view, Vlad Putin is a little Stalin. Little because he's not that sort of a mass murderer like the original one was and Stalin because he is keen to fix the votes to make sure that the election results go up his expectations. But well, in the light of the nutter in the WH for which he certainly helped him to win in 2016 to have his revenge on Clinton, 'Uncle Vlad' can shine even 'brighter' in comparisons.

How people can praise such an authoritarian politician who interferes in elections of other countries is really beyond me.

Jimmy Garlic

Porton Down ten kilometres away from Sailsbury. Still no proof to connect Russia, nothing, just accusation. "Most likely", "almost certainly" and other vagueness. I think Vladimir Vladimirovich must find it humourous. Leo Varadkar is being a good boy and doing as he is told based on nothing. I hope damaging irelands good relationship with Russia is worth the pat on the head.

Dinarius

“If Russia could not become the West, let the West become Russia. If the flaws of American democracy could be exploited to elect a Russian client, the Putin could prove that the world outside is no better than Russia.”

A quote from “The Road to Unfreedom” by Timothy Snyder, reviewed in today’s Financial Times.

Interesting.

D.

Gatling

Seems even russians fighting in Syria know Assad isn't wanted.

"ChVK Vagner mercenaries speak out about the nature of their work

Russian mercenaries with ChVK Vagner declared they are fighting in Syria for patriotic reasons, in a recent anonymous interview with RFE/RL news. One commander declared, “[Syrians] can’t stand Assad. Really. Only a tiny percentage of the population there supports him and the rest oppose him. Only [Russian President Vladimir] Putin supports him. Russia supports him — no one else.” He continued with, “If you are fighting under a Russian flag, with a Russian weapon, even if you are eating moldy food and are 10,000 kilometers from home, you are nonetheless fighting for Russia. There is no Syrian war. There is no Ukrainian war. There is only a war between the Russian Federation and the United States.”

The interview comes after the Vagner Group suffered heavy losses at the hands of American military firepower during a failed raid on an oil refinery located in Deir ez-Zor, Syria. According to reports, a dozen to 200 men were killed by U.S. airstrikes and artillery fire. The interview was held with three commanders, all of which fought in both Syria and Ukraine; their past experience comprised of service in the soviet army. The men had been deployed to Syria in 2013 by the organization known as Slavic Corps. There they guarded oil production based facilities until they too became involved in the civil war. When they returned to Russia in late 2013, their leadership was sentenced to years in prison for conducting illegal mercenary operations.

Despite this, the Russian military went ahead and re-employed their services for the annexation of Crimea by supporting Separatist operations from within Ukraine. One of the commanders interviewed was part of the formation and command of paramilitary units there. He stated, “In 2014, [Ukrainian separatist military commander Igor Girkin a.k.a.] Strelkov was fighting around Slovyansk and a lot of people wanted to go and help him.”

They worked in partnership with the Russian military, they trained at Russian military run institutions and facilities. For the invasion they fell under the command of Russian Army Spetsnaz officers, one mercenary commander elaborated, “They were basically company-sized tactical groups. There were no private military contractors then, but people were paid on time. Vagner is a cruel fellow. He’s no fool.”

Vagner entered Syria in 2015 to conduct combat based operations on behalf of the Russian government. They are not the only company on the ground but they are the only one filling a military based role. According to the commanders being interviewed there are approximately 2,000 Vagner mercenaries fighting in Syria. Russia has pumped it’s own numbers up over time, “There were 6,000, but they announced a draw-down and reduced it to 8,000,” he informed jokingly.

According to the commanders the men work closely with the Russian military, “Every company has a connection to [Vagner] headquarters and there is an officer of the Russian military command there. He coordinates the air cover where an operation is under way. In general, the coordination is very precise. Sometimes it is a thing of beauty to see how perfectly the aviation and artillery support works out.”

According to the men, Vagner does not conduct large scale operations but more or less, “Expands zones of influence.” One continued, “They take territory under control — as a rule, oil and gas fields — and then guard these territories. They are paid for this…. But it is impossible to control an oil field if there are hostile fighters 500 meters away, so they have to force them out.”

On an official side of things, the mercenaries sign contracts that stipulate they perform work withing gas and oil based professions in Syria. The can earn almost $2,650 a month and a bonus of nearly double their rotational salary (3 months) if they complete the full deployment. A commander may earn three times that amount. If a man backs out, he is sent back to the Syrian supply port where he performs logistics for a fraction of his salary.

One commander said, “There is a rumor that Vagner is a so-called meat-grinder project. What is to be done with those who fought in Donbas? With the idiots from the first wave who are real ideologues? These are scary people who could catalyze society. They can cause trouble like yeast in bread. But in Syria, you can help the interests of the country and get rid of some yeast at the same time. That’s what some people are saying. And probably there is something to it.”

In the beginning they were gratuitously supplied bu the Russian military, receiving large amounts of equipment and armored vehicles. After a falling out between Vagner CEO and Yevgeny Prigozhin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in 2016, the men became drastically under equipped as the Russian military reclaimed their gear. After that the mercenaries had to contend with using Syrian army equipment. One commander recalled, “Use: 1986,” was printed on a crate of 120mm mortars, “They took away the tanks and the weapons. They took back everything they had given earlier. Now the Vagner forces fight with Syrian weapons.” Despite the harsh conditions and lack of resources, one commander remarked bluntly that, “War will teach them.”

The mercenaries are now being funded by the Syrian regime government, they send funds to Prigozhin-controlled structures in Russia. The commanders, and fellow mercenaries, have almost no respect for the Syrian government soldiers. One elaborated that, “They are afraid of Islamic State. Say, for example, you go on the attack and take some high ground. You hand it over to the Syrians, but in the morning they don’t have it anymore. IS is back there. And we have to take the hill again. I asked one translator, ‘How come your boys don’t want to fight?’ He told me that many of them had been killed and it is necessary for some of them to remain and to [have intercourse] with girls so that there will be some children.”

The men understood that capture was not an option saying, “It is the kind of war without ceremony. Everyone knows perfectly well that being captured means death by torture. I have specialists who remove eyes. They take a spoon and dig around up and down until the eyeballs are just dangling there.”

The men predicted their services would be sought in the future as the wars continued, speculating that their would be, “war between the Russian Federation and the United States.” One commander added, “There are many fights ahead. Soon it will be in Libya. Vagner is already fighting in Sudan. Putin just explained to everyone that they’d better get ready. It was a good speech and it is about time someone told them, ‘enough.’ I agree with it completely — we can’t play defense forever. Such a world power [as Russia] and a bunch of gays are going to tell us how things should be?” He finished with, “If we have to fight with America, we will win. They don’t know how to fight. As Putin said, you can invent all sorts of missiles, but you can’t invent people like we have. Our people — they know how to sacrifice themselves.”

Beasty

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Not to mention a Member of the Russian Duma announcing in Parliament that a bomb had gone off in a certain city, 3 days before the actual explosion.

Putin's way of "proving" statements made by his cronies....:)

Fiery mutant

Not to mention a Member of the Russian Duma announcing in Parliament that a bomb had gone off in a certain city, 3 days before the actual explosion.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It seems a book written by a guy who had connections to CIA funded Radio Free Europe is the evidence for the apartment block bombings.

Explain the arrest of FSB agents as they were caught planting a bomb ,then prime minister putin demanded their release with all charges dropped ,
The same bombs were used in the previous apartment bombing using the same batch of explosives ,
prime minister putin then went to war in Chechnya after the previous conflict had finished and people were moving on ,
Putin operated essentially a scorched earth policy directly targeting civilian population centers with air strike and heavy artillery ,
Exactly as they are doing in Syria ,