Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

Appledreams15 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/court-man-jailed-rape-2-3660816-Oct2017/
Man jailed for three years for rape at a house party. This is one of many cases.

Some rapes happen in the marital bed

Fann Linn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/court-man-jailed-rape-2-3660816-Oct2017/
Man jailed for three years for rape at a house party. This is one of many cases.

Any comment on the women that do cry wolf? Or are you going to continue to bury your head?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Francie.

Stop trying to find a ****ing issue with everything I post.

I'm saying from her perspective, she's surrounded by two, big strong rugby players and she froze because she saw no way out, whereas if she said no, they probably would have backed off.

I'm not trying to imply anything else.

Seriously, stop getting so ****ing offended over the smallest things.

It is not a small thing to invent things the facts don't back up.

And the fact her is the only sober witness we have said what she witnessed was consensual.

Inventing scenarios is not on.

I'm not inventing facts.

I'm giving my view on what I think happened, using the evidence that was displayed in court.

You have a different view, which is fine.

However, you're the one trying to say that I'm 'slanting' the case against the defence.

I've said I believe Jackson and Olding's perceptions that they believe it was consensual.

However, I also believe her perception that she believes she was raped.

It is possible to do both, and the reason why is because she said she froze, and the lads were to have no idea that she had withdrawn consent.

Stop ****ing following me to find offence with everything I post. I see you went very quiet on the last misrepresentation you made.

Foxtrol

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I really do not think that anyone would put themselves through a 9 week trial so as not to be called a slut.
If you think so you're laughable.
Growing up in Ireland as a teenager-20's we were called sluts all the time. You were either frigid or a slut. There was nothing nice said about women.
Ie, someone said to me: jonny told me about you, he said you were a slut. (Jonny lied about being with me).

Or I would hear about another girl 'jenny from a certain village is the village bike, half the lads have been with her", and a lad would say back "half, I'd say 3/4, hahaha". The men would lie about being with women, and then call them sluts, and we all (the women)knew it.
There was alot of cruel misogyny growing up in Ireland.
Time for things to change.

In the years before this incident a woman ended up leaving the country due to the gossip, video, and chat screenshots from the next day of her night with 2 rugby players.

The woman in this case also thought there could have been photos taken and she had to be pushed by her friends to report the incident. Aside from her no one knows why she took the actions she did (given the alcohol consumption maybe she doesn't even know herself) but it is easy for a lie to one person snowball into something you can't stop.

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

Francie.

Stop trying to find a ****ing issue with everything I post.

I'm saying from her perspective, she's surrounded by two, big strong rugby players and she froze because she saw no way out, whereas if she said no, they probably would have backed off.

I'm not trying to imply anything else.

Seriously, stop getting so ****ing offended over the smallest things.

It is not a small thing to invent things the facts don't back up.

And the fact her is the only sober witness we have said what she witnessed was consensual.

Inventing scenarios is not on.

Appledreams15

Squatter wrote: »

I'm still puzzled by the fact that that those two gins were drank neat. Doesn't add up.

Didnt he say it was the first night he was allowed to drink in a long time, which also brings up binge drinking in sports.

[Deleted User]

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I really do not think that anyone would put themselves through a 9 week trial so as not to be called a slut.
If you think so you're laughable.
Growing up in Ireland as a teenager-20's we were called sluts all the time. You were either frigid or a slut. There was nothing nice said about women.
Ie, someone said to me: jonny told me about you, he said you were a slut. (Jonny lied about being with me).

Or I would hear about another girl 'jenny from a certain village is the village bike, half the lads have been with her", and a lad would say back "half, I'd say 3/4, hahaha". The men would lie about being with women, and then call them sluts, and we all (the women)knew it.
There was alot of cruel misogyny growing up in Ireland.
Time for things to change.

As ive previously stated, false accusations are not a total rarity. It is possible that accusations are made without considering the consequences to them or the accused.

See Quinton Hann the snooker player. And also see former footballer Dave Jones who was accused of abusing a youngster when he worked as a care worker and was put through hell for nothing

As for your anecdotes, women too can be bitches with regard to humiliating and gossip spreading about other women.

Fann Linn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I really do not think that anyone would put themselves through a 9 week trial so as not to be called a slut.
If you think so you're laughable.
Growing up in Ireland as a teenager-20's we were called sluts all the time. You were either frigid or a slut. There was nothing nice said about women.
Ie, someone said to me: jonny told me about you, he said you were a slut. (Jonny lied about being with me).

Or I would hear about another girl 'jenny from a certain village is the village bike, half the lads have been with her", and a lad would say back "half, I'd say 3/4, hahaha". The men would lie about being with women, and then call them sluts, and we all (the women)knew it.
There was alot of cruel misogyny growing up in Ireland.
Time for things to change.

But they do. The Van Persie and Hann cases being both examples of women making false accusations.
It does happen.

Squatter

Appledreams15 wrote: »

How would Olding know anything on: eight cans of Carlsberg beer, four pints of Guinness, two gins, five vodka and lemonades and three shots of tequila and Sambuca.

I'm still puzzled by the fact that that those two gins were drank neat. Doesn't add up.

Muff Richardson II wrote: »

I’d say it means she had some idea in her head about a coital encounter with a famous sports star and it might have been a bit more romantic than getting tossed about like a rag doll by two scumbags high fiving each other.

Hats off sir!! Excellently said

Faugheen wrote: »

Yeah that's fair, but from Jackson and Olding's point of view, it wasn't crossing a line because they weren't to know that she wasn't consenting to it (because she 'froze').

That idea also explains where the 'no, not him as well' that she claims to have said fits in in her narrative as well.

I think they're all telling the truth about their perceptions of the night, to be honest.

Except Blane McIlroy. Even the complainant and Jackson agree that he wasn't in the room.

The funniest part of the trial (if you can say that) for me was when he was in the dock and Jackson's barrister was cross-examining him, and asked him if he agreed with the perception of his friends that he talked '****e', and he actually agreed.

The strangest part for me was when the prosecutor asked Rory Harrisson where McIlroy was when he was at Paddys bedroom door, and he couldn't answer, it was put to him..."Could he have been in the wardrobe?"...."Possibly"...utterly nuts!

Ahhhh for forks sake!

You are innocent until proven guilty.

The lads were found not guilty.

Therefore they are innocent in law.

The text messages were graphic, I'll admit, however they were PRIVATE. They were only made public in the course of the trial. If the lads weren't named before the guilty verdict, then the messages wouldn't have been made public.

The messages were pornographic in nature, however I fail to see how they were misogynistic. There was nothing anti-woman in it.

The whole thing stinks of Hitler hating Jews so he has to destroy any place they prosper.

Appledreams15

Faugheen wrote: »

Yeah that's fair, but from Jackson and Olding's point of view, it wasn't crossing a line because they weren't to know that she wasn't consenting to it (because she 'froze').

That idea also explains where the 'no, not him as well' that she claims to have said fits in in her narrative as well.

I think they're all telling the truth about their perceptions of the night, to be honest.

Except Blane McIlroy. Even the complainant and Jackson agree that he wasn't in the room.

The funniest part of the trial (if you can say that) for me was when he was in the dock and Jackson's barrister was cross-examining him, and asked him if he agreed with the perception of his friends that he talked '****e', and he actually agreed.

How would Olding know anything on: eight cans of Carlsberg beer, four pints of Guinness, two gins, five vodka and lemonades and three shots of tequila and Sambuca.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

To be fair, my view on what happened wouldn't be far off this.

She was doing whatever with Jackson, consensually, then Olding came in.

She didn't want to do anything with them as a pair, but she suddenly found herself surrounded by two big strong rugby players, and this is where she 'froze' and where her perception of being raped comes into play.

Again with the slant. The same as the prosecution tried. :rolleyes:

Why didn't the 'big strong rugby players' not gang up on anybody else there that night, who had a 'pleasant enjoyable' night out?

Francie.

Stop trying to find a ****ing issue with everything I post.

I'm saying from her perspective, she's surrounded by two, big strong rugby players and she froze because she saw no way out, whereas if she said no, they probably would have backed off.

I'm not trying to imply anything else.

Seriously, stop getting so ****ing offended over the smallest things.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Hi Matlock

Ive repeatedly said ive empathy for a girl in tears.
Ive repeadedly said ive empathy for a girl raped.
If/as she was in tears, ipso facto, point 1 applies.

So where have i said i had no empathy for her?
Where have i given any indication i had no empathy for the complainant. Harken back to "that post" if you will. Nowhere is there an expression of no empathy.

Lets remind ourselves in case theres lawyers watching, those accused of "wrongdoing" were acquitted...

You suggested that the young lady, who arrived home sobbing, got a good deal in that she got two men the two men only got one woman.

If you consider that empathy you need to go back to school. I thought that what you said was vile.

Muff Richardson II

Silentcorner wrote: »

What do mean got more than she bargained for? Can you explain that please.
What is less than gentlemanly behaviour?

I’d say it means she had some idea in her head about a coital encounter with a famous sports star and it might have been a bit more romantic than getting tossed about like a rag doll by two scumbags high fiving each other.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

To be fair, my view on what happened wouldn't be far off this.

She was doing whatever with Jackson, consensually, then Olding came in.

She didn't want to do anything with them as a pair, but she suddenly found herself surrounded by two big strong rugby players, and this is where she 'froze' and where her perception of being raped comes into play.

I almost agree with you there, but that would be my understanding, if she got more than she bargained for then it implies what she got crossed a line.

Yeah that's fair, but from Jackson and Olding's point of view, it wasn't crossing a line because they weren't to know that she wasn't consenting to it (because she 'froze').

That idea also explains where the 'no, not him as well' that she claims to have said fits in in her narrative as well.

I think they're all telling the truth about their perceptions of the night, to be honest.

Except Blane McIlroy. Even the complainant and Jackson agree that he wasn't in the room.

The funniest part of the trial (if you can say that) for me was when he was in the dock and Jackson's barrister was cross-examining him, and asked him if he agreed with the perception of his friends that he talked '****e', and he actually agreed.

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

Where have you shown empathy for the young lady in this case?

Don't keep dodging it or lacing your answer in deflection.

Answer that question please, where have you shown any empathy for the young woman in this case. The one you suggested got a great deal in those two fine specimen that were accused of wrongdoing.

I am repeating myself because you are avoiding that direct question.

Hi Matlock

Ive repeatedly said ive empathy for a girl in tears.
Ive repeadedly said ive empathy for a girl raped.
If/as she was in tears, ipso facto, point 1 applies.

So where have i said i had no empathy for her?
Where have i given any indication i had no empathy for the complainant. Harken back to "that post" if you will. Nowhere is there an expression of no empathy.

Lets remind ourselves in case theres lawyers watching, those accused of "wrongdoing" were acquitted...

Appledreams15

Deleted User wrote: »

Where she has remained anonymous. She didnt want to be known as a harlot around Belfast so she made a rape claim to save face that she would never consent to what she done that night in spite of any stories going around

False rape claims are made all the time. Look at Quinton Hann, Look at Robin Van Persie.

The accusation is made without any consequences for the future

I really do not think that anyone would put themselves through a 9 week trial so as not to be called a slut.
If you think so you're laughable.
Growing up in Ireland as a teenager-20's we were called sluts all the time. You were either frigid or a slut. There was nothing nice said about women.
Ie, someone said to me: jonny told me about you, he said you were a slut. (Jonny lied about being with me).

Or I would hear about another girl 'jenny from a certain village is the village bike, half the lads have been with her", and a lad would say back "half, I'd say 3/4, hahaha". The men would lie about being with women, and then call them sluts, and we all (the women)knew it.
There was alot of cruel misogyny growing up in Ireland.
Time for things to change.

Silentcorner wrote: »

I almost agree with you there, but that would be my understanding, if she got more than she bargained for then it implies what she got crossed a line.

No that’s not how I personally would interpret it - nor is it how I meant it to come across - there were lines crossed in terms of general manners or conduct etc - I’m just not convinced rape was that line!

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

To be fair, my view on what happened wouldn't be far off this.

She was doing whatever with Jackson, consensually, then Olding came in.

She didn't want to do anything with them as a pair, but she suddenly found herself surrounded by two big strong rugby players, and this is where she 'froze' and where her perception of being raped comes into play.

Again with the slant. The same as the prosecution tried. :rolleyes:

Why didn't the 'big strong rugby players' not gang up on anybody else there that night, who had a 'pleasant enjoyable' night out?

Faugheen wrote: »

To be fair, my view on what happened wouldn't be far off this.

She was doing whatever with Jackson, consensually, then Olding came in.

She didn't want to do anything with them as a pair, but she suddenly found herself surrounded by two big strong rugby players, and this is where she 'froze' and where her perception of being raped comes into play.

I almost agree with you there, but that would be my understanding, if she got more than she bargained for then it implies what she got crossed a line.

Roger Hassenforder

Muff Richardson II wrote: »

I splashed out and treated myself to two top quality brazzers in the famous orchard towers ‘four floors of whores’ in Singapore on a return leg after a long stint in Asia. I had dreamt of this threesome moment for years...all round it was a very disappointing experience and I was extremely upset at having dropped a few hundred dollars on an awkward situation
.

You cant leave us hanging, give us the details

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Whats slippy about this:

*I empathise with a girl in tears.
*I empathise with a girl who was raped.
*A girl who was raped maybe in tears afterwards.
*A girl in tears does not prove she was raped.

Is there anything in those 4 points you cannot understand?

You're floundering badly in this thread lately, and failing to make any sense, or make a point that hasnt been repeatedly rebuffed, and have resorted to ad hominens which are becoming more frequent as you slip beneath the surface...

What question is it you think you've clearly asked that im avoiding?
Theres only one of us spoofing now Silentcorner...

Where have you shown empathy for the young lady in this case?

Don't keep dodging it or lacing your answer in deflection.

Answer that question please, where have you shown any empathy for the young woman in this case. The one you suggested got a great deal in those two fine specimen that were accused of wrongdoing.

I am repeating myself because you are avoiding that direct question.

Silentcorner wrote: »

skearnsot wrote: »

He probably didn’t think much of it until he got called to give evidence! I would NEARLY go as far as to say what humiliated her was when the 3rd guy said “you f***ed them why not me” or words to that affect!
Now for the record whilst I don’t think rape happened - I think she got more than she bargained for (no smutty pun intended) and the behaviour of the lads was less than gentlemanly at the time!
Plus with high profilers if one complaint of this nature comes forward there are generally more that follow!! I haven’t heard of anymore complaints against these lads other than crude what’s app messages?
If I’m wrong I’m open to correction

What do mean got more than she bargained for? Can you explain that please.
What is less than gentlemanly behaviour?

To be fair, my view on what happened wouldn't be far off this.

She was doing whatever with Jackson, consensually, then Olding came in.

She didn't want to do anything with them as a pair, but she suddenly found herself surrounded by two big strong rugby players, and this is where she 'froze' and where her perception of being raped comes into play.

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

Read his testimony Francie...he remembered that fare make no mistake,

Yes he did.
What difference does that make?

Silentcorner wrote: »

What do mean got more than she bargained for? Can you explain that please.
What is less than gentlemanly behaviour?

She went with intent to get off with Olding - & succeeded - not quite sure she thought there would be another involved too! Then a 3rd walked in ready for action and she metaphorically “got more than she bargained for”