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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

ancapailldorcha

This thread is for continuing the discussion of the recent Belfast rape trial. The old thread can be found here.

Thanks,
The AH mods.

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goz83

racso1975 wrote: »

Or do you reckon it is just that PJ was better known then Olding? Think that a has a big part to play in it too. More of a household name? Do agree that a post statement might of helped as opposed to threatening to sue all around him

I suspect that the vast majority of the mob had no idea who either men were before the case. PJ became their primary target because (1) the sex was in house house and (2) he didn’t appease the surging mob by releasing a statement like olding.

So, yes, I agree a statement would have helped. But in Paddies mind....he knew he was innocent and felt no need to make a statement of that sort.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Embarrassed???? Is that how you would describe her reaction in that long taxi drive home. I wouldn't.

I would say she was disappointed and felt she let herself down. Embarrassment kicked in the next day when she thought that it might get out. This is of course only speculation and I don’t know her true motives, or emotions at the time....nor does anyone else.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Er, where did I say what they did was illegal?

Demeaning people isn’t illegal. Reprehensible, maybe.

Rugby is lauded as being a real mans sport. Real men don’t have their friends join in while they’re having sex with a girl. Real men concentrate on giving and receiving pleasure with their companion without the need of another’s help. Real men wouldn’t have a girl leave their bed in a distressed state. Nor would they feel the need to brag about their shagging greatness.

Real men don’t have threesomes?

Is that what you’re essentially saying?

Here’s a bit of news for you.

Most men and women talk and brag about sexual encounters.

That’s life, and human nature.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Er, where did I say what they did was illegal?

Demeaning people isn’t illegal. Reprehensible, maybe.

They didn't intentionally demean anyone. The messages were meant to be PRIVATE.

*and the sex was consensual. You may be prudish about it, but that is the fact here. They were all 'enjoying it' according to the one independent witness we have.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They were all 'enjoying it' according to the one independent witness we have.

Strange how she saw something that PJ said never happened!!

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

Alls well that ends well then!!

No, but as deportations go, it isn't too bad.
Playing in the Irish public eye gives Jackson and Olding every chance to get back on the Irish team after a time. Maybe even for the World Cup squad.
I am sure the mob will have distracted themselves with some other poor bastards career and life by then.

*Beginning to wonder if this was all concocted by the IRFU. Such a good outcome out of a bad situation for the lads, if stories are true.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange how she saw something that PJ said never happened!!

Nothing strange about it. From body positions it was shown to the jury that she may have just assumed he was having actual sex.
You just cannot get over the fact that these people 'convinced' the jury that they were telling the truthful versions of what happened as they saw it.

Are you undermining her evidence and how the jury saw it?

Is this another subtle, 'there was a rape, no matter what anyone says'.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange how she saw something that PJ said never happened!!

Dara didn’t see PJs penis and so could not be certain if there was intercourse. So she didn’t see sex, but believed that’s what was happening. What she did see was consensual sexual behaviour.

I would be of the opinion that he couldn’t rise to the occasion. Probably booze and drugs. His text the next day about spit could have been a reference to him using his fingers (which is what he claims to have done).

rafatoni

The mob will be foaming at the mouth once their pay off detials and salary at new clubs are revealed.

The louise oneill types and her ILK will be looking for public floggings.

meeeeh

I give it three pages before someone decides it's all a great result and Olding and Jackson orchestrated the whole trial so they would get out of Ulster contracts and could play in England or France. So much some are trying to persuade themselves what a great result this is.

Also it would be interesting research to see if words foaming, mob, feminazis, shrill And similar are just signs of powerless rage.

FrancieBrady

rafatoni wrote: »

The mob will be foaming at the mouth once their pay off detials and salary at new clubs are revealed.

The louise oneill types and her ILK will be looking for public floggings.

Not a thing they can do though but foam away.

skearnsot

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Is he tho? I remember a lot of people thought he was a bit of a toff. Him and Glenda were a pain in the buttocks.
He's gone quiet lately-I do remember him discussing many of the 'initiations' players would get into in rugby.
He also had that bleach hair-and the 'calendar' photoshoot or whatever it was. :rolleyes:

Paul O'Connell and Ronan O'Gara were more humble-ditto Johnny Sexton.

O'Driscoll was around in the days of the Meteor Awards, and the Celtic Tiger-and Gavin Lambe Murphy...and was sponsored by a certain sports drink, and lord did he whore that product when he was being paid to. Every game, photo op, post game interview etc.

Gilson, too, made a ton of money off of their relationship-even pumped a lot of it into her businesses (that failed, badly). Huberman might be annoying, but dear God-Glenda was everywhere.

Glenda and her man hands gave and still give me a pain in me hole

almostover

Appledreams15 wrote: »

A threesome that left her bleeding. If you really thought UR would continue to let them play, I'm surprised. There is alot of nationwide anger at them, the sponsors don't want them there. Good riddance

I just think it's very hypocritical to criticise PJ and SO for treating the girl like a piece of meat and then treating them like a commodity just because they are rugby players. The fact that all 3 people are humans is getting lost on some people.

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

I give it three pages before someone decides it's all a great result and Olding and Jackson orchestrated the whole trial so they would get out of Ulster contracts and could play in England or France. So much some are trying to persuade themselves what a great result this is.

What happened to Olding and Jackson was not 'great'.

This outcome is 'great' though considering what might have ensued.

Can you get your head around that concept at all?
We know some wanted them in traditional sackcloth and ashes as befits fornicators who fall foul of the rules.
But it is clear the outcome is a long long long way from that.

almostover

ziggy wrote: »

Do you want the snowflake mob to get in a time machine to protest George Best?

Maybe they could protest the fact that the Belfast international airport is named after him. There are plenty of decent role models, both male and female from Northern Ireland who they could name it after.

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you get your head around that concept at all?
We know some wanted them in traditional sackcloth and ashes as befits fornicators who fall foul of the rules.
But it is clear the outcome is a long long long way from that.

No they didn't want them playing for Ulster or Ireland, the rest is just your interpretation to make yourself feel better. It will be less painful with time, I promise.

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

No they didn't want them playing for Ulster or Ireland, the rest is just your interpretation to make yourself feel better. It will be less painful with time, I promise.

That is now a distinct possibility. For Jackson at least, he is playing for a top team in Europe right under the noses of the Irish rugby public.
The IRFU were careful to not say these are life bans, and Jackson and Olding very clearly stated their intentions to 'prove' themselves again and to 'rebuild the trust'.
They are very carefully crafted statements.

You think if he develops into the player he promised to be that there will not be calls for him to be re-instated that will drown out the mob?

Tell me how

FrancieBrady wrote:

You think if he develops into the player he promised to be that there will not be calls for him to be re-instated that will drown out the mob?

No. He's done in an Irish Jersey.

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You think if he develops into the player he promised to be that there will not be calls for him to be re-instated that will drown out the mob?

Oh dear, still using the emotive language? I don't know if they will be reinstated or not neither do I overly care. Sports loves a good redemption story but at least in case of Jackson a bit more than contrite statement 10 day too late will be needed. Olding's team handled the situation much better.

Roger Hassenforder

Michael Clifford gave a balanced (i thought) vuew in the Examiner:

"Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding have paid a heavy toll for their appalling behaviour. Personal responsibility for their actions rests entirely on their own shoulders.

But let’s not pretend that they are anything other than products of a society that holds out the carrot of a sense of entitlement to young, developing talent.

As to whether they should be allowed to return, perhaps the wisdom of St Augustine should be paraphrased here. “Lord, make them pure enough to play, but just not yet.”

In any event, their future careers will not be determined by those who have the best interests of society or sport at heart. The values of professional sport today are dictated by sponsors, whose primary concern is the bottom line in profit-and-loss accounts".

WHkewgOph7aMX6PdALityFG40Lprq5qMK7V8WR9Ppls

goz83

Tell me how wrote: »

No. He's done in an Irish Jersey.

Any chance of the lotto numbers?

Tell me how

goz83 wrote:

Any chance of the lotto numbers?

3, 11, 26, 28, 37, 40

skearnsot

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Real men don’t have threesomes?

Is that what you’re essentially saying?

Here’s a bit of news for you.

Most men and women talk and brag about sexual encounters.

That’s life, and human nature.

If “real” men don’t do any of that - where does that leave the women involved??
Single female friend advised me that 3somes are the in thing right now & sex is readily available & expected by both male & female!!
I’m married & prefer a cuppa on a Saturday night at home with me hubby nd kids - so I am the up to date on the whole modern socialising thing

Roger Hassenforder

almostover wrote: »

I just think it's very hypocritical to criticise PJ and SO for treating the girl like a piece of meat and then treating them like a commodity just because they are rugby players. The fact that all 3 people are humans is getting lost on some people.

The hypocrisy is fairly breathtaking at times.
PJ and SO are being villified for treating the girl like a piece of meat, yet nothing said about her objectifying PJ due to his status as a famous rugby player. She like many before her, to many of his ilk, was attracted to this very status, and who would more than likely have gone on to boast to her peers, of having shagged him.

To paraphrase MsMerton, "so what attracted you to the famous rugby player Paddy Jackson"?

It may come as a surprise to some, but the young women of Ireland are known to enjoy sex as much as the menfolk, and boast of their conquests. My experience is they're not shrinking violets, and sometimes their language would make a sailor blush.

skearnsot

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The hypocrisy is fairly breathtaking at times.
PJ and SO are being villified for treating the girl like a piece of meat, yet nothing said about her objectifying PJ due to his status as a famous rugby player. She like many before her, to many of his ilk, was attracted to this very status, and who would more than likely have gone on to boast to her peers, of having shagged him.

To paraphrase MsMerton, "so what attracted you to the famous rugby player Paddy Jackson"?

It may come as a surprise to some, but the young women of Ireland are known to enjoy sex as much as the menfolk, and boast of their conquests. My experience is they're not shrinking violets, and sometimes their language would make a sailor blush.

I 100% agree

[Deleted User]

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The hypocrisy is fairly breathtaking at times.
PJ and SO are being villified for treating the girl like a piece of meat, yet nothing said about her objectifying PJ due to his status as a famous rugby player. She like many before her, to many of his ilk, was attracted to this very status, and who would more than likely have gone on to boast to her peers, of having shagged him.

To paraphrase MsMerton, "so what attracted you to the famous rugby player Paddy Jackson"?

It may come as a surprise to some, but the young women of Ireland are known to enjoy sex as much as the menfolk, and boast of their conquests. My experience is they're not shrinking violets, and sometimes their language would make a sailor blush.

But until Ashling Thomson or Anna Gearary are the ones doing the boasting no one gives a f**k.

FrancieBrady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The hypocrisy is fairly breathtaking at times.
PJ and SO are being villified for treating the girl like a piece of meat, yet nothing said about her objectifying PJ due to his status as a famous rugby player. She like many before her, to many of his ilk, was attracted to this very status, and who would more than likely have gone on to boast to her peers, of having shagged him.

To paraphrase MsMerton, "so what attracted you to the famous rugby player Paddy Jackson"?

It may come as a surprise to some, but the young women of Ireland are known to enjoy sex as much as the menfolk, and boast of their conquests. My experience is they're not shrinking violets, and sometimes their language would make a sailor blush.

Issues nobody in the public eye will address there Roger.
Another opportunity on Marian Finucane this morning for Rape Crisis to even mention this was passed up in favour of the 'men need to change' mantra.

Appledreams15

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The hypocrisy is fairly breathtaking at times.
PJ and SO are being villified for treating the girl like a piece of meat, yet nothing said about her objectifying PJ due to his status as a famous rugby player. She like many before her, to many of his ilk, was attracted to this very status, and who would more than likely have gone on to boast to her peers, of having shagged him.

To paraphrase MsMerton, "so what attracted you to the famous rugby player Paddy Jackson"?

It may come as a surprise to some, but the young women of Ireland are known to enjoy sex as much as the menfolk, and boast of their conquests. My experience is they're not shrinking violets, and sometimes their language would make a sailor blush.

Nobody I know of knew who Paddy or stuart were before the trial

joe40

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Michael Clifford gave a balanced (i thought) vuew in the Examiner:

"Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding have paid a heavy toll for their appalling behaviour. Personal responsibility for their actions rests entirely on their own shoulders.

But let’s not pretend that they are anything other than products of a society that holds out the carrot of a sense of entitlement to young, developing talent.

As to whether they should be allowed to return, perhaps the wisdom of St Augustine should be paraphrased here. “Lord, make them pure enough to play, but just not yet.”

In any event, their future careers will not be determined by those who have the best interests of society or sport at heart. The values of professional sport today are dictated by sponsors, whose primary concern is the bottom line in profit-and-loss accounts".

WHkewgOph7aMX6PdALityFG40Lprq5qMK7V8WR9Ppls

Yeah I would fully agree with that article, the first paragraph sums up the situation pretty accurately.

Appledreams15

I am not happy that Stuart and Paddy were sacked because I am vindictive, would like to see them suffer, or have any anger at them personally.

However, I am delighted because Ireland is beginning to take sexual assault more seriously.

We could not go on the way we were. I think if men knew the true scale of rapes in Ireland, they would be very ashamed to see that it was allowed to happen for such a long time, and procedures: court, support, education were not funded or paid any attention to.

This case has helped to highlight what needs to change

[Deleted User]

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Nobody I know of knew who Paddy or stuart were before the trial

You know PJ and SO better then anyone now though!