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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

ancapailldorcha

This thread is for continuing the discussion of the recent Belfast rape trial. The old thread can be found here.

Thanks,
The AH mods.

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clevtrev

Mrsmum wrote: »

Many loving relationships started off exactly like that. Course they would have been with decent guys not ones who admitted their actions " betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public".

yes indeed I know a lot of celebrities who married the groupies they brought home for a one night stand, not!

Mrsmum

clevtrev wrote: »

yes indeed I know a lot of celebrities who married the groupies they brought home for a one night stand, not!

No one marries a ons.

Whereisgalway

If i had a boi account i would close it down. Sponsors should not get a say in such matters

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Life will go on, girls will get hammered and throw themselves at successful men in VIP lounges even tonight.

Yes they will but maybe those successful men won't send them home crying and mock them next day. Maybe some of them will realise that is not how you treat fellow human being.

FrancieBrady

The story is now about the core values of the IRFU and the corporates.

How wonderfully upstanding they are. :rolleyes:

And the morally outraged can feck off to the sidelines.

Mrsmum

Whereisgalway wrote: »

If i had a boi account i would close it down. Sponsors should not get a say in such matters

But there would be more opening them up. Try and remember you're in the small 'mob' here.

C__MC

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

Mrsmum

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

I think there is an injunction around that case. As far as I know he was a minor at the time ?

Fann Linn

And the moral of this story is 'stay off watzap!'

meeeeh

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

Because loads of young kids are looking up to Waterford United player nobody even knows the name of? You really don't understand that it's about their standing in society, not about their profession . Higher on the ladder they are less room for mistake there is.

ArthurDayne

Mrsmum wrote: »

Will you get off the stage. I never once said your pov was irrelevant. Go back and read my post and show me where I said that. I said what you are saying is from a man's pov and then gave you a woman's pov. And for a person who said they have and indeed will continue to call women sluts, you are really really touchy about the term mansplaining which is what I felt you were doing.

Why should I ever 'get off the stage' when people are calling for every private morally questionable statement we make to be used as the be-all-and-end-all of our beliefs and deprive us of our careers? That is what you are advocating is it not? A 'thought police' world where the private statements and jokes of citizens must be subject to moral audit, and all those who use derogatory language regardless of context should be cast from their jobs.

Like all dictatorships though, the one you envisage is clearly based on the doctrine of 'do as I say but not as I do'. You write eloquently about how being called a slut makes you personally feel. I never questioned how it makes you feel -- I never disputed it -- and I never purported to tell you how it should make you feel. You then, with remarkable arrogance, used the term 'mansplaining' to describe my sincere attempts at debating with you. You had no regard to how generalising my views based on my gender would make me feel did you?

But of course, the hypocrite that you are, you have not even offered an apology for your derogatory statement -- yet you have the sheer audacity to demand that others should not only apologise for using sexist terms in private, but should be sacked for it and categorised as sexists.

For the record, and in the interests of maintaining consistency in my arguments (i.e. not being a hypocrite) I don't think you're a sexist just because you used a generalising term in your private life. I'm sure you do not filter your language in the comfort of your home in the same way you might do in a work email or a public lecture. I know you didn't set out to hurt my feelings or the feelings of other men on this site. You used a silly term carelessly, as we all do. What angers me however are the double standards you apply. It seems that it's OK for you to use whatever derogatory term you want to generalise me and my opinions i.e. my views are 'mansplaining' just because I'm a man --- yet it's not OK for anyone else?

[Deleted User]

Heard a radio interview in the week where it was revealed that during the Judges summing up, council for Jackson “On instruction” ie told by Jackson to do so, objected to the tone used by the Judge. Apparently, it was suggested that her tone was more sympathetic to the girl. It was dismissed. It further shows the arrogance of the accused.

[Deleted User]

Mrsmum wrote: »

Oh dear, you really don't like getting a woman's pov do you.

Any woman that says “mansplaining” most likely has a loaded or sexist POV anyway.

This Aussie politician handled it beautifully when he was hit with it by a fellow senator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXh5repOWI

clevtrev

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

mob and media have no interest unless the perps or the complainants are from a nice part of town, with good breeding or have some sort of public profile - obvioulsy playing for Waterford FC isnt public enough!

FrancieBrady

Another Rape Crisis centre lady(Susan McKay) on RTE there and STILL not a mention of the role women have to play going forward, if situations like this are to disappear.

Soapboxing and bandwagoning on feminist mantras instead.

Roger Hassenforder

Mrsmum wrote: »

That's why I said they are following the mood of the people.

a vociferous minority I feel, triggered enough to literally 'mobile'ize themselves to put thumb to screen, via twitter etc, so lets not use opinion polls to establish the mood of the "people in a statistically unreliable poll or two.
most people i know think its outrageous, both their identification in the media, and subsequent treatment after being found innocent.

lets remind ourselves of the conversation that has led to an outraged mob demanding they never play for their country again. Something they have worked towards all their life. Its not more than a hobby, Irish rugby was their life.

on being asked "how was she?" by a friend. Olding replied
"she was very very loose.”
Friend: “Any tips or stories Simon?”
Olding:“Went to Cutters, Ollies, then after-party”
Friend: “Any sluts get f**ked?”
Olding: “Precious secrets.”
11:16am JACOME WhatsApp member: “I said tonight is your lucky night.”
11:17am Olding :“we’re all top sh***ers”
11.17am Olding: “there was a bit of spit roasting going on last night fellas
11.17am Jackson: “There was a lot of spit roast last night.” (thats his contribution in full!)
11.18am Olding “It was like a merry go round at the carnival

two young men after what they thought was a consensual threesome (known as a spitroast" with a willing participant, indulge in some braggadocio. among their friends.
If you honestly think any young male in your life wouldnt say worse in the privacy of their friends, you are seriously deluded.
George Hook was hounded for a public clumsy utterance that a mob found unpalatable. These lads have been hounded for a private utterance.
Its fcuking outrageous.

TerrorFirmer

Mrsmum wrote: »

No one marries a ons.

While I've yet to get married, I've had several relationships that began with a 'ONS' - even though I don't even like that term, really.

bottlebrush

Fann Linn wrote: »

And the moral of this story is 'stay off watzap!'

That's the thing about all this - this 'behaviour' is not going to just disappear overnight - it's just that there will be no evidence of it

And in the interest of fairness, shouldn't the IRFU be examining the whatsapp messages and behaviour of their other players - role models - so that they can continue in their contracts. In fact, let's investigate the online activity of all celebrities to determine whether they are fit to continue as role models.

Oh wait....

Wrongway1985

C__MC wrote: »

Sad day folks when two innocent men lose their job after being acquitted in a marathon trial by a unanimous descion.

Nothing to do with the outcome of the trial. The behavior of these lads was scummy and the type a professional sports team would want well shot of if they don't want backlash from their partners and supporters. No surprise whatsoever.

Mrsmum

Hilarious how people who think they can say what they like themselves have such a big problem when someone else uses a word they don't like. Channel your inner female and put up with it like we have to do all the time.

backspin.

Omackeral wrote: »

Any woman that says “mansplaining” most likely has a loaded or sexist POV anyway.

This Aussie politician handled it beautifully when he was hit with it by a fellow senator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXh5repOWI

Yeah it's a sexist way of saying to men to shut up your opinion doesn't matter because you are a man.

Anyone using that term had a nerve asking others to not be sexist.

_Dara_

Omackeral wrote: »

Any woman that says “mansplaining” most likely has a loaded or sexist POV anyway.

This Aussie politician handled it beautifully when he was hit with it by a fellow senator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXh5repOWI

Both of them come across as arrogant gobshites there, to be honest.

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Heard a radio interview in the week where it was revealed that during the Judges summing up, council for Jackson “On instruction” ie told by Jackson to do so, objected to the tone used by the Judge. Apparently, it was suggested that her tone was more sympathetic to the girl. It was dismissed. It further shows the arrogance of the accused.

Hi Maryanne84

It is well within the realms of the concept of a fair trial that an accused can question any perceived lack of impartiality. There is nothing arrogant about having a keen interest in ensuring you don't get sent to prison on the basis of a trial which you believe is being conducted improperly or unfairly -- even if your belief is mistaken. This was a criminal trial, not a polite discussion.

Furthermore, 'On instruction' can also mean that it came from Jackson's solicitor rather than Jackson himself -- did they really specify that Jackson personally requested this? Maybe they did, and fair enough if so, but if you think you aren't getting a fair trial then it is both reasonable and indeed sensible to voice that concern.

facehugger99

Ohmeha wrote: »

As a man I am frightened by all this

Don't treat other people like ****e and you'll be grand.

Roger Hassenforder

meeeeh wrote: »

Because loads of young kids are looking up to Waterford United player nobody even knows the name of? You really don't understand that it's about their standing in society, not about their profession . Higher on the ladder they are less room for mistake there is.

I think youve given the game away there.

No one too outraged about a black working class convicted rapist. An acquitted middle class white lad on the other hand...
Its irresistible for the perpetually outraged

C__MC

Classy statements by olding and Jackson, hope they make millions

Roger Hassenforder

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes they will but maybe those successful men won't send them home crying and mock them next day. Maybe some of them will realise that is not how you treat fellow human being.

A girl left my house one night in tears after we broke up. She cheated, i dumped.
Should i lose my job?

facehugger99

C__MC wrote: »

Classy statements by olding and Jackson, hope they make millions

I'd be happy enough to see them get their careers back on track - as long as it's in France or somewhere else. It might even encourage the victim to take a civil case against them.

clevtrev

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think there is an injunction around that case. As far as I know he was a minor at the time ?

https://theukdatabase.com/2014/11/01/3-kildare-residents-each-receive-suspended-sentences-for-sexual-abuse-of-schoolgirl/

Amirani

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I think youve given the game away there.

No one too outraged about a black working class convicted rapist. An acquitted middle class white lad on the other hand...
Its irresistible for the perpetually outraged

Working class? Based on what exactly?