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Child Item

The Tragic Case of Alfie Evans

EagererBeaver

Another very sad case in the UK, similar to that of Charlie Gard last year. Anyone been following it and, if so, what are your thoughts?

My views haven't changed since the CG case - the rights of the parents to ignore medical opinion do not supersede the rights of the child, and the courts are right to step in when the parents' wishes are not in the best interests of the child. People protesting at the hospital and abusing staff are absolute scum.

The case:

Parents of Alfie Evans launch legal challenge over end-of-life care

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/13/protest-held-liverpool-over-withdrawal-of-toddler-life-support-alfie-evans

The CG thread:

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057759906/1

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Temptamperu

Links? info? what are you on about?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Temptamperu wrote: »

Links? info? what are you on about?

Terminally ill child whose parents refused to allow the hospital to withdraw life support, government overruled them and gave hospital permission.

Gatling

He needs to be let go in peace and dignity and all this emotional ,social media campaigns need to be stopped it's doing the family no good ,get away from the Media and social media circus .

Harry Palmr

Usual story in the age of instant outrage and Ordinary Joes thinking they know better or being influenced by outsiders with some sort of campaign mentality based on little or no knowledge.

EagererBeaver

Temptamperu wrote: »

Links? info? what are you on about?

Post updated. On my phone and hit post by mistake.

EagererBeaver

Similar to the CG case, the parents appear to be taking some very bad advice on this - the father has wetted that he has legal proof that he has the right to take the child out of the hospital and has evidenced this by showing a letter (the contents of which are unclear) from the "Christian Legal Centre". The protests at the hospital last night arose from an appeal of his.

SEPT 23 1989

state interference is fine but only when it suits

EagererBeaver

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

state interference is fine but only when it suits

Feel free to elaborate on that a tad...

Graces7

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Usual story in the age of instant outrage and Ordinary Joes thinking they know better or being influenced by outsiders with some sort of campaign mentality based on little or no knowledge.

Parents have rights and NHS etc make mistakes,

Have you forgotten the wee lad , whose parents literally kidnapped him, who is now well and free of cancer?

and there is no mention of what the baby will suffer if they withdraw treatment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424058/So-Ashya-s-parents-RIGHT-Proton-beam-cancer-therapy-forced-family-run-Spain-couldn-t-NHS-good-chemotherapy-fewer-effects.html

This family have had offers of help abroad and should be allowed to take their child to another hospital . How dare the gvt play God like this

Graces7

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Similar to the CG case, the parents appear to be taking some very bad advice on this - the father has wetted that he has legal proof that he has the right to take the child out of the hospital and has evidenced this by showing a letter (the contents of which are unclear) from the "Christian Legal Centre". The protests at the hospital last night arose from an appeal of his.

????? They are seeking to take the baby to a different hospital who probably can help him. How is that bad advice?

Capt'n Midnight

I haven't checked the specifics of this case because at the end of the day it's just economics.

Health care could always do with more money because you can't save everyone if you are on a budget. All you can do is save as many lives as you can.

If a terminally ill patient is hogging equipment that could be used to save a life in A&E then it's very difficult to justify continued treatment.

On a slightly different topic there's a huge for profit healthcare / big pharma interest in extending life, even if it's in pain, if you can get paid for it.

Canis Lupus

Graces7 wrote: »

????? They are seeking to take the baby to a different hospital who probably can help him. How is that bad advice?

Not according to the BBC. 'But Alder Hey's hospital trust argues that Bambino Gesu has a similar belief that care for Alfie should be palliative.'

The child is dying, moving him to another hospital won't change that.

gctest50

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I haven't checked the specifics of this case because at the end of the day it's just economics.

Health care could always do with more money because you can't save everyone if you are on a budget. All you can do is save as many lives as you can.

If a terminally ill patient is hogging equipment that could be used to save a life in A&E then it's very difficult to justify continued treatment.

.......

He had an air ambulance to get the child out of there to another hospital - exact opposite of hogging equipment

The protest outside Alder Hey began after Tom Evans said in an emotional Facebook video that he had an air ambulance on standby to fly his son for treatment in Rome

Gatling

According to the hospital experts , little Alfie's brain is mostly liquidifed and all thats keeping him alive is the multiple machines he's currently hooked up to ,

It's a very sad case but the parents need to get off facebook and courts and spend what little time they have left with Alfie in peace and free from stress .

Jimbob1977

If the parents are willing to take their son out of the hospital, surely that should suit the hospital?

Their problem is solved (unless he is re-admitted after new treatment fails).

iamwhoiam

Graces7 wrote: »

Parents have rights and NHS etc make mistakes,

Have you forgotten the wee lad , whose parents literally kidnapped him, who is now well and free of cancer?

and there is no mention of what the baby will suffer if they withdraw treatment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424058/So-Ashya-s-parents-RIGHT-Proton-beam-cancer-therapy-forced-family-run-Spain-couldn-t-NHS-good-chemotherapy-fewer-effects.html

This family have had offers of help abroad and should be allowed to take their child to another hospital . How dare the gvt play God like this

They have been offered a tracheostomy and a PEG feeding tube . This will not cure the child or make any difference to his quality of life . Its very tough on parents to accept that a life attached to ventilator and no quality of life is not best for their baby . But it isn't and its unfair for anyone to not do what is in the childs best interest
There is no comparison with the child with cancer and this child who has a progressive neurological deteriorating life limiting condition

gctest50

Gatling wrote: »

.......

all thats keeping him alive is the multiple machines he's currently hooked up to ,

.

this is not a lot of gear :

iamwhoiam

gctest50 wrote: »

this is not a lot of gear :

He is ventilated , on artificial feeds via tubes . He is artificially kept alive

buried

Do yourselves a massive f**king favour and ignore all that absolute GRIM f**king noise the likes of the Daily Mail peddle to the masses over in the UK.
You can get enough of a Grimness hit over here with our own problems.

gctest50

iamwhoiam wrote: »

He is ventilated , on artificial feeds via tubes . He is artificially kept alive

It's still not a lot of gear

And if they left him off in the air ambulance, they could have it all back

.

Nettle Soup

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Usual story in the age of instant outrage and Ordinary Joes thinking they know better or being influenced by outsiders with some sort of campaign mentality based on little or no knowledge.

Yeah you're right. Well put too.
It probably applies to most threads here.

CrabRevolution

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

state interference is fine but only when it suits

Like how they intervened to save the child's life in the first place?

iamwhoiam

gctest50 wrote: »

It's still not a lot of gear

And if they left in off in the air ambulance, they could have it all back

I doubt very much that the medical team looking after Alfie are concerned about their " gear " . Its the child best interest that concerns them . The child has a progressive neurological illness and it is not in his best interest to have him face surgical procedures in order to prolong his little life .

iamwhoiam

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Like how they intervened to save the child's life in the first place?

We don't know the full case but it is likely Alfie was ventilated when he first became ill and awaiting diagnosis .

CrabRevolution

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We don't know the full case but it is likely Alfie was ventilated when he first became ill and awaiting diagnosis .

Well yeah. But it's the state's "interference" that provides the hospital, the doctors, the equipment, the medicines, the nurses etc.

gctest50

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We don't know the full case but it is likely Alfie was ventilated when he first became ill and awaiting diagnosis .

They have failed to diagnose

- what they don't want is him going to another hospital and getting diagnosed ( even if he dies )

because lawsuit

iamwhoiam

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Well yeah. But it's the state's "interference" that provides the hospital, the doctors, the equipment, the medicines, the nurses etc.

A sick child arrives to a hospital and is treated for his symptoms until diagnosed . How is that interference ? I am
not with you ?

iamwhoiam

gctest50 wrote: »

They have failed to diagnose

- what they don't want is him going to another hospital and getting diagnosed ( even if he dies )

because lawsuit

Have you read his whole medical file ? Or just plucking facts from the media ?

ohnonotgmail

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Have you read his whole medical file ? Or just plucking facts from the media ?

maybe not from the media but i'm pretty sure we can all guess where.

CrabRevolution

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A sick child arrives to a hospital and is treated for his symptoms until diagnosed . How is that interference ? I am
not with you ?

My original point was aimed at people giving out at state interference, when it's the overall system of state interference that causes the child to be alive.