manonboard wrote: » There is lots of talk about how it only affects poorer people who can not afford to travel. However, I've not seen any data showing how many people this actually affects. We live in a pretty generous social welfare state, and the boat to the UK is pretty cheap. So i find it a hard to believe reason. Does anyone have any stats on it? How many people this stops from getting an abortion or claims hinders? I've been unable to find any showing this area. *im not interested in believing any opinion, im asking for stats on this.
bubblypop wrote: » seriously? we have a generous welfare state so they should punt off to England to get the abortion?
bubblypop wrote: » because contraception is 100% affective right? you do know that unwanted pregnancy occurs? contraception fails, unless you are suggesting people only have sex for reproduction? & to be fair an unborn child doesnt think anything.... I was an unplanned child, my father wanted abortion, my mother didnt. if I was aborted, I wouldnt know. we are all of us, all 3 very much pro choice.
manonboard wrote: » I think it was sarcasm
givyjoe wrote: » Considering the posts after, you sure about that?!
manonboard wrote: » Thats a very inaccurate statement. The post was not in any way vitriolic. They have a point that you disagree with. Their post was well explained according to their own ethics, but such accusations by you present you as emotionally unreasonable.
end of the road wrote: i'm not teling a woman in crisis what's best for her though. i'm saying that unless there is an extreme circumstance such as a threat to her life or to her becoming permanently disabled, she should not have the right to take the life of her unborn child.
bubblypop wrote: » but only the unborn babies that are born into poverty? what happens once they are born? that is not important to you, the only thing that is important to you is that they are born? into unwanted lives. how considerate
givyjoe wrote: » Well lucky for you, abortion on demand wasn't possible, or you may not here. What has you being unplanned got to do with your parents being pro choice? So you're in favour of abortion on demand then? I'm clearly suggesting abortion on demand isn't granted. Fairly simple really.
SusieBlue wrote: » I wasn’t speaking in the context of that post, I was speaking in the context of all his posts on the topic across maybe 5/6 currently open threads on the issue, one of which he is banned from.
Martina1991 wrote: » You are literally saying what a woman in crisis " should " do.
end of the road wrote: » all supports to help raise a child, both financial and emotional, should be availible to help parents who need them. i have been clear on this a plenty and i have been clear in relation to my upmost support for the wellfare system.
bubblypop wrote: » actually, I was born in England, so yes abortion was available. & even if it wasnt, & I was aborted, I wouldnt know would I? so It wouldnt matter to me. I am in favour of abortion when a woman requires it, to be available in this country. Seeing as how its constitutionally available to travel for one. me, being unplanned is just an example of how women can choose what they want for themselves, & believing that all women should have the right to choose.
givyjoe wrote: » But you were born, so... You are aware of it. Quite obviously I'm speaking about Ireland, not the UK. When does a woman require it? When she feels like it or when it's medically required? 'Requiring' an Abortion because of financial hardship, is a bit of a stretch.
bubblypop wrote: » A woman requires an abortion for a lot of different reasons, maybe read through a few threads on boards and educate yourself. or even read the citizens assembly report, that should show you a few different reasons women might require abortions.
givyjoe wrote: » I specifically referenced financial difficulty, so does this fit your requirement? Try reading my post this time before you reply. Seen as your so well educated on why it may be required, aside from medical reasons, what are examples of such requirements?
bubblypop wrote: » there are a million and one reasons why a woman needs an abortion. all of which are hers ( & her partner if involved ) to decide. none of which are your business.
givyjoe wrote: » None of my business? But I thought I could read about loads of reasons on threads and reports?! But surely it IS my business and your business and everyones business? You want a referendum don't you? So basically you're saying "I want abortion on demand", why? "I'm not telling you". Priceless. I see you're not willing to answer whether financial hardship is one of those requirements.
bubblypop wrote: » Firstly, I had to go to bed so.....no, not ignoring. Secondly, It's not abortion on demand. It's abortion without restriction. It's allowing a woman to assess her particular set of circumstances and decide for her, if a termination is necessary. That kind of thing is not decided on a whim. It's for the victims of rape. It's for the women who, due to their health, can't carry a pregnancy. It's for the women facing cancer treatment. It's for the women in direct provision who cannot travel for a termination. It's for the women here illegally. It's for the women too poor to afford travel. It's for children who are physically too immature to carry a pregnancy and give birth without severe risks to their health. It's for the women who's pregnancy will put them at risk of increased domestic abuse. It's for the women who's contraception failed and they are simply too poor to afford another child. It's for the women who are miscarrying their wanted baby and have to gamble as to whether the dying heartbeat will die before sepsis happens. Its' so that women who needs an X-ray can get one - and not just on certain days of her cycle because she's deemed to be fertile and therefore has some sort of Shrodingers pregnancy going on every month for half the month. It's for the women at high risk of having a special needs child and she's already struggling to cope with the one she has and cares for 24/7. It's so women can get full medical support in early pregnancy to try to maintain their pregnancy. It's for women with fatal foetal abnormalities. It's for continuity of maternity care including post abortion health care. (above a quote from Neyite) & no, it is not any of your business or my business the reason why. I don't know why you think it is?
givyjoe wrote: » Don't have a problem with most of those bar the one relating the question I specifically asked you. Financial. That simply doesn't cut it in Ireland with the supports that are available.
bubblypop wrote: » So you are ok with abortion unless the woman is poor. what gives you the right to decide what is right for her & her family?
LirW wrote: » My own mom had an abortion when I was around 9 and my sister 7. She had an affair and despite having a coil, which moved and turned in her, she got pregnant. The affair wasn't a solid relationship, she was earning little money and we were poor as it was, it was really tough.She went up to the capital to have an abortion because she couldn't justify throwing another child into that mix of struggle and got assaulted by pro-lifers in front of the clinic on her way in.
bubblypop wrote: » It's not abortion on demand. It's abortion without restriction.
bubblypop wrote: » It's allowing a woman to assess her particular set of circumstances and decide for her, if a termination is necessary. That kind of thing is not decided on a whim.
bubblypop wrote: » It's for the victims of rape. It's for the women who, due to their health, can't carry a pregnancy. It's for the women facing cancer treatment. It's for children who are physically too immature to carry a pregnancy and give birth without severe risks to their health. It's for the women who are miscarrying their wanted baby and have to gamble as to whether the dying heartbeat will die before sepsis happens. It's for women with fatal foetal abnormalities.
bubblypop wrote: » It's for the women in direct provision who cannot travel for a termination. It's for the women here illegally.
bubblypop wrote: » It's for the women too poor to afford travel. It's for the women who's contraception failed and they are simply too poor to afford another child. It's for the women at high risk of having a special needs child and she's already struggling to cope with the one she has and cares for 24/7. It's for continuity of maternity care including post abortion health care.
bubblypop wrote: » Its' so that women who needs an X-ray can get one - and not just on certain days of her cycle because she's deemed to be fertile and therefore has some sort of Shrodingers pregnancy going on every month for half the month. It's so women can get full medical support in early pregnancy to try to maintain their pregnancy. It's for the women who's pregnancy will put them at risk of increased domestic abuse.
end of the road wrote: and many of us on the pro-life side have said that abortion will be required in those circumstances, but we don't need abortion on demand to provide abortions in those cases.
end of the road wrote: they don't require abortions in my view, and i certainly would never vote for anything that would allow them to have abortions.
kanadams123 wrote: The 8th amendment, and more specifically the abortion side of things is a clear ethical issue! Ethics is defined as whether something is right or wrong. Some people here think it is right and others think it is wrong. That is perfectly acceptable. Some people here need to get over the fact that not everyone will have the same opinion as you and that's OK. That is why we are having what is called a "vote" (or referendum) because not every single person in Ireland, is going to vote yes or vote no. Accept it.
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