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thousands to lose homes or thousands to lose their free living scam?

CeilingFly

l headline form the indo
Thousands risk losing their homes
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/thousands-risk-losing-their-homes-as-they-fail-to-confront-longterm-arrears-36791883.html

Sorry, when you have paid NOTHING for 5 years and refuse to engage with the lender, its not your home. You are scamming the taxpayer and those paying high standard variable rates.

No-one has an issue with those trying their best and engaging with lenders and coming to new arrangements, but isn't time to kick the strategic defaulters who have paid NOT ONE CENT for year out of their free accomodation?

Remember, unless you are on a tracker rate. YOU are paying for these scammers through higher lending rates than there should be

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Ipso

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The rate shouldn't be the same. It should be less.

Take a look at what the ECB rate was in 2006 relative to what it is today.

Irish mortgage lenders haven't been passing on ECB rate cuts.

As has been mentioned in the past, as long as there are long term non performing mortgages you can kiss lower rates goodbye.
No business will charge lower rates when there is the risk of non payment.

Assetbacked

suicide_circus wrote: »

Agreed but what is the alternative? FG and FF are essentially the same party and the rest of the parties are the types that push for legislation that results in the non functioning housing market described in this thread and who are certainly not fans of the people who get up in the morning?

Voter apathy or protest voting is the consequence in the absence of a proposed solution. A proposed solution could come in the form of populism or an independent with a stance that fits in with the individual so we would have a rake of independents and only 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc priorities going to FF/FG.

Trigger Happy

Ipso wrote: »

As has been mentioned in the past, as long as there are long term non performing mortgages you can kiss lower rates goodbye.
No business will charge lower rates when there is the risk of non payment.

You can keep explaining this time and time again but some people just dont want to hear or even try to understand.

suicide_circus

Assetbacked wrote: »

Voter apathy or protest voting is the consequence in the absence of a proposed solution. A proposed solution could come in the form of populism or an independent with a stance that fits in with the individual so we would have a rake of independents and only 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc priorities going to FF/FG.

All the populism in this country is of the "Can't Pay - Won't Pay" variety. I don't see the independents in the current government breaking any ground for middle income families at the moment. We're just not a sexy news topic. The media likes stories about whatever leftist hobby horse is currently de rigueur. Leo was unmasked as an out and out spoofer in terms of his rhetoric about those that get up in the morning.

What.Now

CeilingFly wrote: »

Santander bank of Spain and Sparkasses of Germany looked at entering Ireland and bringing lower rates.
When they saw how difficult it was to repossess from a defaulter, they walked away. Competition for customers brings better rates and once a bank offers lower rates and can make a profit from that lower rate, all other banks tend to follow suit.

Not just the US, but most normalised markets. In France it would be extremely rare to be able to go 6 months without dialogue and still be in the house. And if you suddenly start dialogue after ignoring them for 6 months, they don't care. And because this is well known, anyone in difficulty there contacts their bank immediately to come to an agreement.

I just wish the media and the government would stop pandering to these scammers and permit automatic repossession to anyone who has not engaged with the bank and has not paid for over 12 months.

One of the problems here is that the banks won't engage until you have missed 3 months payments and then from there the phone calls start and the pressure and the warnings and the threats and the solicitor letters and so forth...

If you go to the bank and tell them your in danger of missing next months payment they don't care, it's as if it's a policy they have. Let them get into **** first and then we negotiate.

Ipso

suicide_circus wrote: »

All the populism in this country is of the "Can't Pay - Won't Pay" variety. I don't see the independents in the current government breaking any ground for middle income families at the moment. We're just not a sexy news topic. The media likes stories about whatever leftist hobby horse is currently de rigueur. Leo was unmasked as an out and out spoofer in terms of his rhetoric about those that get up in the morning.

They are from the magical bottomless pit of money brigade. Absolutely nothing to offer.

[Deleted User]

What.Now wrote: »

One of the problems here is that the banks won't engage until you have missed 3 months payments and then from there the phone calls start and the pressure and the warnings and the threats and the solicitor letters and so forth...

If you go to the bank and tell them your in danger of missing next months payment they don't care, it's as if it's a policy they have. Let them get into **** first and then we negotiate.

Missing the point a bit, there should be no negotiation regarding the mortgage if someone cant pay then the house is either repossessed or sold and the mortgage paid off is what the posters want.

Uncharted

Wacker and Shelly can't be expected to pay their bills AND keep the bookies/pub going while they feed their 60 johnny blues a day habit.

Especially with him on the disability.

[Deleted User]

Uncharted wrote: »

Wacker and Shelly can't be expected to pay their bills AND keep the bookies/pub going while they feed their 60 johnny blues a day habit.

Especially with him on the disability.

How did they get a mortgage in the first place?

Hitman3000

mariaalice wrote:

A quarter of the thread on boards are about a tiny amount of people and situations. Why no threads on the 90% of people who pay their mortgages no problems.

The permanently outraged need something to vent their outrage, sure I might start up a social welfare bashing thread I haven't seen one in 3 days. Surely one is due?

namloc1980

What.Now wrote: »

One of the problems here is that the banks won't engage until you have missed 3 months payments and then from there the phone calls start and the pressure and the warnings and the threats and the solicitor letters and so forth...

If you go to the bank and tell them your in danger of missing next months payment they don't care, it's as if it's a policy they have. Let them get into **** first and then we negotiate.

That is not true at all. Under the Code of Conduct for Mortgage Arrears lenders are legally obligated to engage the very next day after a payment is missed and legally obligated to write to the customer outlining their arrears and potential resolution options after 30 days and every 90 days thereafter as well making every effort to make phone contact. If you know of lenders not doing this you should immediately report it to the Central Bank.

suicide_circus

mariaalice wrote: »

How did they get a mortgage in the first place?

Some bank manager probably put a gun to their head

Hitman3000

donegaLroad wrote:

The question is, why are Irish interest rates twice the European average?

'Treasure Ireland' to borrow a phrase from a Tesco executive.

banie01

suicide_circus wrote: »

All the populism in this country is of the "Can't Pay - Won't Pay" variety.

It makes one wonder if those particular populists ever heard of Mazdak or the Gracchi brothers!

And then wonder if their own fates are at all foreshadowed!

_Kaiser_

This is what happens when you have a country obsessed with owning property as the ultimate metric of success and achievement

- It's seen as a "right" regardless of your ability to actually pay for it
- The rental market is a disaster because everyone sees it as something to put up with on the glorious road to ownership, rather than the long term viable-in-itself option it SHOULD be. It doesn't help that many of the decision makers (TD's) are landlords themselves and doing quite well out of it again
- When your obsession with property results in sub-prime lending, you crash the economy and everyone else picks up the tab

Until Ireland gets past the idea that everyone should be able to (and should be entitled to!) buy property, then property will continue to cause serious problems in this country.

Graces7

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a country obsessed with owning property as the ultimate metric of success and achievement

- It's seen as a "right" regardless of your ability to actually pay for it
- The rental market is a disaster because everyone sees it as something to put up with on the glorious road to ownership, rather than the long term viable-in-itself option it SHOULD be. It doesn't help that many of the decision makers (TD's) are landlords themselves and doing quite well out of it again
- When your obsession with property results in sub-prime lending, you crash the economy and everyone else picks up the tab

Until Ireland gets past the idea that everyone should be able to (and should be entitled to!) buy property, then property will continue to cause serious problems in this country.

Excellent post. Thank you

Ipso

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a country obsessed with owning property as the ultimate metric of success and achievement

- It's seen as a "right" regardless of your ability to actually pay for it
- The rental market is a disaster because everyone sees it as something to put up with on the glorious road to ownership, rather than the long term viable-in-itself option it SHOULD be. It doesn't help that many of the decision makers (TD's) are landlords themselves and doing quite well out of it again
- When your obsession with property results in sub-prime lending, you crash the economy and everyone else picks up the tab

Until Ireland gets past the idea that everyone should be able to (and should be entitled to!) buy property, then property will continue to cause serious problems in this country.

But owning property is smart and ballsy, especially when you borrow everything.

Franz Von Peppercorn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a country obsessed with owning property as the ultimate metric of success and achievement

- It's seen as a "right" regardless of your ability to actually pay for it
- The rental market is a disaster because everyone sees it as something to put up with on the glorious road to ownership, rather than the long term viable-in-itself option it SHOULD be. It doesn't help that many of the decision makers (TD's) are landlords themselves and doing quite well out of it again
- When your obsession with property results in sub-prime lending, you crash the economy and everyone else picks up the tab

Until Ireland gets past the idea that everyone should be able to (and should be entitled to!) buy property, then property will continue to cause serious problems in this country.

This last point is nonsense. We don’t think everybody should be able to buy - hence social housing. And Ireland has relatively low home ownership by European standards.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-home-ownership-rates.html

Franz Von Peppercorn

Ipso wrote: »

But owning property is smart and ballsy, especially when you borrow everything.

It’s better than the alternative in Ireland. Most countries actually.

Rather than expect the population to stop buying rather than renting ( which is unusual in most countries except the Germanic countries) you need stability of tenure. Not 4 years. 20 years.

silverharp

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The rate shouldn't be the same. It should be less.

Take a look at what the ECB rate was in 2006 relative to what it is today.

Irish mortgage lenders haven't been passing on ECB rate cuts.

before the current voodoo economics banks were a market maker between borrowers and savers , central banks have decided to penalise savers, the current mortgage rate is cheap

satguy

All these homeowners must have been tax payers up to the crash in 08,, all the tax they paid went to bail out our greedy bankers.
And now that the bankers pockets are all lined again, they want to make the homeowners that helped them out, Homeless.

Where's my Guillotine ,,

morrga

donegaLroad wrote: »

I bought my house in 2006, and the intetest rate is roughly the same today as is was back then. 2006 is before all this defaulting began.

I haven't missed one payment btw.

The question is, why are Irish interest rates twice the European average?

It’s all down to the non profitable tracker mortgages and the sleeping population sitting on variables not bothering to ring up and fix.

Ipso

satguy wrote: »

All these homeowners must have been tax payers up to the crash in 08,, all the tax they paid went to bail out our greedy bankers.
And now that the bankers pockets are all lined again, they want to make the homeowners that helped them out, Homeless.

Where's my Guillotine ,,

Yes, only the bankers were greedy.

Grandeeod

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a country obsessed with owning property as the ultimate metric of success and achievement

- It's seen as a "right" regardless of your ability to actually pay for it
- The rental market is a disaster because everyone sees it as something to put up with on the glorious road to ownership, rather than the long term viable-in-itself option it SHOULD be. It doesn't help that many of the decision makers (TD's) are landlords themselves and doing quite well out of it again
- When your obsession with property results in sub-prime lending, you crash the economy and everyone else picks up the tab

Until Ireland gets past the idea that everyone should be able to (and should be entitled to!) buy property, then property will continue to cause serious problems in this country.

In a nutshell. But wait for rabid hoards to march along and redicule you and your opinion. Probably the same rabid hoards that make up those sitting in a Q to slap down a deposit on the latest legoland estate. No doubt your valid point and my support for it will fly over lots of heads like a fooking rocket.

BattleCorp

morrga wrote: »

It’s all down to the non profitable tracker mortgages and the sleeping population sitting on variables not bothering to ring up and fix.

Why are the trackers non profitable? I don't believe that for a minute.

donegaLroad

Ipso wrote: »

As has been mentioned in the past, as long as there are long term non performing mortgages you can kiss lower rates goodbye.
No business will charge lower rates when there is the risk of non payment.

Like I said in post #2, does anyone seriously believe that the banks would lower mortgage interest rates once the defaulters issue is resolved?

Given the bank's track record in this country to date...

At the end of January, the banks had dealt with and resolved 30 cases where lenders had been illegally taken off their tracker mortgage. That is 30 cases out of (I think) 33,700 cases, and it took the whole month of January.

How long is it going to take to fix the entire problem?

30 lenders per month.... thats going to take 33,700 / 30 = 1,123 months

1,123 / 12 = 93

So its going to take approx 93 years.

Boreen

beefburrito wrote: »

New cars, two sun holiday's a year...

No mortgage payments, it's a well know fact Jimmy and Mary down the road are 6 year's in debt but still going to Peter Mark's...

Great country

Same happen down the road. Couple with a load of kids paid nothing for 5/6 yrs. No communication. Bank eventually got them out. House was auctioned and 1 bid. Talk is they bought it back for less than half the value.

namloc1980

BattleCorp wrote: »

Why are the trackers non profitable? I don't believe that for a minute.

Why don't you believe that for a second? Have you analysed bank financial statements to come to that conclusion?

Franz Von Peppercorn

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why don't you believe that for a second? Have you analysed bank financial statements to come to that conclusion?

Trackers are a few basis points above the ECB rate. If they aren’t making money now why were they making money to begin with?

namloc1980

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Trackers are a few basis points above the ECB rate. If they aren’t making money now why were they making money to begin with?

Yes because cost of funds is the only cost a bank has. Staff work for free. IT and systems maintenance and development is also free of course. Pensions payments to retired staff also free. And provisions for all those non paying bad debts....yup free as well. Not to mention setting aside capital against future losses....also free.