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Should gay conversion therapy be banned in Ireland?

freshpopcorn

At the moment it's illegal for minors to attend this type of therapy but I think the government are extending the ban access to it for all adults.
I support the ban for minors and probably for adults but some people might have to travel or be forced to countries where these therapies are legal if we do ban it for whatever reason.
I don't believe these therapies work but then again I don't really know much about.

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gmisk

JupiterKid wrote: »

Right. The views of pure homophobic hatred and ignorance expressed on this thread have sickened me to my stomach, as a gay man who struggled for years over my true sexuality.

I think this thread should be reported to the media. And hopefully it will.

Vile beyond belief.

I have to agree :mad:

Its not hard to find stories with regards people (especially young people) being hugely damaged or worse committing suicide after being subjected to conversion therapy.

wexie

And with regards to the stories of people now no longer being gay...I'll add my own story (no therapy involved)

I had a roommate for a couple of years who was gay (or thought so).
Now, nearly 20 years on, he's happily married to a woman that he loves and adores.
His take on it is : guess I was bi all along and just didn't find the right woman...

If we can accept that sexuality can be fluid then it's not unreasonable to accept it's fluid over time.
None of those stories are in any way evidence that this 'therapy' is in any way effective.

Uncharted

I wholly disagree with the notion of gay conversion therapy. Nobody has the right to meddle between consenting adults bedroom habits.
It's utter tripe of the highest order but I don't believe in a 'ban everything ' culture either.

It's people's choice whether to avail of it or not.

I believe anybody with even a modicum of sense wouldn't entertain the notion.

dr.fuzzenstein

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I guess you're young and have a high sex drive.

Most people as they age realise that companionship is far more important than fc*uking, and that you can get bodily pleasure in all sorts of ways.

And that just because you're attracted to someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them.

Hahaha! That made my day!
Thank you young lady.
I am crashing toward 50 at warp speed.
Interestingly enough I was trapped in relationship that over the years had turned strictly platonic and increasingly indifferent.
I could have made the decision that my sexlife was over, I should just be glad I have company and left it at that.
I decided that no, my life isn't over and I will not settle for a relationship I wasn't happy in to firstly please the other person and save myself from loneliness.
I would have rather lived alone for the rest of my life than settle for something out of fear and desperation.
Being older doesn't mean that you die inside and just give up. I still have plenty of fire left in me and now I also have the experience and resolution that comes with being older, if I put my mind to something, it's gonna happen.

What happened was, one day I happened across a wonderful woman through Facebook. We actually went to school together but hadn't spoken in 30 years. We're now married.

To use the conversion example. I could have said that from now on I'm gay and I could settle with a man. But that is bollocks. Even if I did that and even if that worked, I will not ever be gay.
That is the crux of the whole argument!
You cannot be what you are not!
There was a female couple in my village here in Germany. They lived together as a couple for years and years. They even married (for tax purposes).
But they were not gay and they would never have made that claim.

TL:DR
You are what sexuality you are. And no matter what you do, you cannot change that fact.
You can live with who you want, if that makes you happy, great! You can experiment and try everything. But gay conversion therapy doesn't say "be what you want to be", but " be what we tell you to be"
You cannot change or deny your fundamental orientation. That way lies misery and psychosis.

conorhal

wexie wrote: »

And with regards to the stories of people now no longer being gay...I'll add my own story (no therapy involved)

I had a roommate for a couple of years who was gay (or thought so).
Now, nearly 20 years on, he's happily married to a woman that he loves and adores.
His take on it is : guess I was bi all along and just didn't find the right woman...

If we can accept that sexuality can be fluid then it's not unreasonable to accept it's fluid over time.
None of those stories are in any way evidence that this 'therapy' is in any way effective.

Fluid genders flow in only one direction it seems.

If anything should be banned it's the creeping permissability of children being allowed to transition and minors getting pumped full of hormone blockers with profound physiological impact.

As far as I'm concerning an adult can do as they wish.
If the state wants to limit what an adult can an can't do then perhaps they should look into the multitude of organizations eager to take advantage of the daft and the desperate in far higher numbers then this so called 'conversion therapy' is likely to effect in Ireland, like the Scientologists, who seem to be able to set up drugs rehab centers with no regulation for example.

Grayson

wexie wrote: »

This!

I think it is absolutely shocking that in this day and age there is no legal protection or framework to stop this. I asked a few professionals and they all told me the same thing (I'd be delighted if someone told me I was misinformed).

Anybody, regardless of qualifications or professional registration or any such thing can set up shop and call themselves a (psycho)therapist.

Which is just....mind boggling...

(psychologist is something else entirely thankfully)

As far as I'm aware you need to be qualified to call yourself a psychotherapist. It's one of those protected names like a psychologist. However it's possible to be a therapist or counsellor with far fewer qualifications.

jacksie66

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sbsquarepants

kneemos wrote: »

How many gays in a kilometer?

Depends. If that kilometre is on georges street there's roughly 3 per metre:D

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You cannot change or deny your fundamental orientation. That way lies misery and psychosis.

I agree completely.

I'm not attracted to men, never have been. If I was stuck on a desert island with only man Friday, I suppose it's imaginable that we'd end up playing mammies and daddies, but there's absolutely no chance I'd ever look at him and think "fúck he's hot" the way I would at a woman.

You can possibly change the way you act, but you can't be attracted to something you just aren't attracted to and vice versa. These treatments are nonsense, but should they be banned? - No. If you want to pray the gay away or whatever you have at it - people try pray away cancer ffs! I don't care what the hell you do in your own time with your own money (or mickey for that matter!)

For this very reason I also feel that the "treatment" of paedophiles is pretty much a waste of time - if you happen to fancy kids, you aren't going to suddenly find them repulsive, no matter what course you've been forced to attend. That twisted desire will always be there.

dr.fuzzenstein

So to surmise my above post, I guess I tried something similar.
I was trapped in a relationship that over the course of 10 years had turned into merely cohabiting with my partner.
I could have left it like that. It was the same as living with a man, as in the end, after years of desperation and me going slowly insane, I had buried my feelings and nearly given up.
I slept in a different room and gone through all the porn on the internet. Twice.
Until I met my now wife. Over weeks of chatting online and phonecalls I discovered that all my feelings weren't gone, they simply were stored up and at first they overwhelmed me and even scared me.
I am infinitely happier now that I live with a person that I love and fancy and that reciprocates these feelings.
What makes me sad is how many years I lived a lie and I am sometimes angry I flushed 10 years down the toilet living a lie.
Actually I believe it has psychologically damaged me and I will never quite get over it.

So, in the end, you are what you are and if you deny that, you are doing yourself no favours. Enforced celibacy from the church also springs to mind. It's bollocks and doesn't work.
Really, there is no argument here.

blanch152

JupiterKid wrote: »

Right. The views of pure homophobic hatred and ignorance expressed on this thread have sickened me to my stomach, as a gay man who struggled for years over my true sexuality.

I think this thread should be reported to the media. And hopefully it will.

Vile beyond belief.

I haven't seen any views of pure homophobic hatred on here, that is a complete exaggeration.

If you ban gay conversion therapy, should you also ban any form of counselling for uncertain sexual orientation? These things work both ways. It would mean that the type of help you either got or should have got for your struggles would be unavailable.

There is an unhealthy element of fascist political correctness in existence that doesn't allow for differing views and differing circumstances. For someone whose religious belief is more important than their sexuality for their happiness, your views would deny them the chance to address that. Why would you deny someone that freedom? In your opinion, their sexuality is more important, in theirs it isn't.

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EdgeCase

Nettle Soup wrote: »

We are still a very backward country going by some of the comments here.

There's no guarantee they're representative or even from this country. It's an open registration forum.

In general I take internet forums with a very large pinch of salt.

freshpopcorn

JupiterKid wrote: »

Right. The views of pure homophobic hatred and ignorance expressed on this thread have sickened me to my stomach, as a gay man who struggled for years over my true sexuality.

I think this thread should be reported to the media. And hopefully it will.

Vile beyond belief.

What do you expect the media to do?

freshpopcorn

kunst nugget wrote: »

How could it not affect his family life? He has decided to partner up with someone he has no sexual attraction with so that he can live what he deems to be a normal life. I think it's completely unfair on his partner as well.

In secondary school he would have had girlfriends/etc but I always got the impression he might have being bi. I think he simply wanted to suppress the gay part off him and from what I know she know's he was a bit wild at college.

Wibbs

JupiterKid wrote: »

Right. The views of pure homophobic hatred and ignorance expressed on this thread have sickened me to my stomach, as a gay man who struggled for years over my true sexuality.

I think this thread should be reported to the media. And hopefully it will.

Vile beyond belief.

TBH JK, while ignorance is hardly going out of fashion regardless of the subject at hand, I'm really not seeing "pure homophobic hatred"?

kunst nugget

Nettle Soup wrote: »

We are still a very backward country going by some of the comments here.

A couple of comments on a thread on boards and you're calling the whole country very backward. C'mon…

kunst nugget

freshpopcorn wrote: »

In secondary school he would have had girlfriends/etc but I always got the impression he might have being bi. I think he simply wanted to suppress the gay part off him and from what I know she know's he was a bit wild at college.

Does she know what the being 'a bit wild at college' entailed?

Wibbs

freshpopcorn wrote: »

In secondary school he would have had girlfriends/etc but I always got the impression he might have being bi. I think he simply wanted to suppress the gay part off him and from what I know she know's he was a bit wild at college.

I knew one guy like the chap from your story. Funny enough of the women I've known who were bi a good percentage of them ended up with women later in life. A few wouldn't have considered themselves gay/bi but ended up with a woman. Kinda the opposite of the men. Tiny sample group of course. Plus I've personally known far more gay/bi women than men in my life, which would skew things.

freshpopcorn

kunst nugget wrote: »

Does she know what the being 'a bit wild at college' entailed?

From what I know Yes but he never did a whole pile sexually. It simply wasn't for him.

eviltwin

Any accounts of conversion therapy I've heard tend to involve a young person being forced into it by their family. I can't imagine that outside of religious fundamentalist types there would be much demand for it. Most people in this country don't see homosexuality as something that needs fixing.

freshpopcorn

eviltwin wrote: »

Any accounts of conversion therapy I've heard tend to involve a young person being forced into it by their family. I can't imagine that outside of religious fundamentalist types there would be much demand for it. Most people in this country don't see homosexuality as something that needs fixing.

It's very rare but the lad I know who wanted it simply knew he'd never fit in.

eviltwin

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's very rare but the lad I know who wanted it simply knew he'd never fit in.

What made him think he'd never fit in? Where'd he live?

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freshpopcorn

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He went to belongto(I think) tried stuff at college and was miserable. He never fitted in and could never see a future of fitting in either.

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Dial Hard

blanch152 wrote:

If you ban gay conversion therapy, should you also ban any form of counselling for uncertain sexual orientation? These things work both ways. It would mean that the type of help you either got or should have got for your struggles would be unavailable.

That's a very disingenuous analogy. Professional counselling is generally aimed at helping people to accept/embrace/work through/be able to live with whatever issue has landed them in counselling to begin with.

Gay conversion "therapy" comes exclusively from the mindset that being gay is fundamentally wrong and needs to be "corrected".

They're not comparable.

JupiterKid

I could see certain quarters up North going for this evil BS to throw their children into. Alsi dont forget that part of the vacuum created by the decline of the RC church here in the Republic is being filled with evangelical Christian denominations, some of whom are very homophobic.

It boils down to this - religion is very toxic to sexual freedom and happiness.

freshpopcorn

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Oh, he never went to therapy he basically just blocked the gay out of him to put it bluntly. He did want to attend one of those therapies but could find none of them in Ireland at the time.

freshpopcorn

eviltwin wrote: »

What made him think he'd never fit in? Where'd he live?

He was originally from a farm outside a town and went to secondary school in the town and went to college/worked a little in Dublin.
His secondary school was liberal(we went to the same one). There was gay lads out when he was at school but he never got on with these guys.
He played lots of sports and would be a typical lad if you know what I mean.
He went off to things in Dublin when he was a teenager and tried his best and he never got on with anybody. He also had the same experience in Dublin at college on nights out/etc
He never could make friends, found the community camp/over the top. He met guys who said they were into sports/etc but after he while he knew they were just spoofing him.

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