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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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RabbleRouser2k

pleas advice wrote: »

trial by media on Claire Byrne right now, 55% of those polled don't want paddy jackson or stewart olding playing for Ireland again,

The discussion of the sponsors power is interesting.

RabbleRouser2k

Another rush job tho. The discussion about fortnite is gonna be more 'investigative', sadly.

FrancieBrady

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

The discussion of the sponsors power is interesting.

Good to hear it said loudly and plainly that 'private messages' cannot be actioned in an employer/employee contract.

It was always a dangerous precedent and good to hear there is some protection legally.

Larbre34

In discussions with my peer groups about the trial and especially since the verdict, I've been saying more or less what the Solicitor there on CB has just said, i.e. that any review of their employment must only be about their employment and the terms of their contracts but Ive been attacked for saying it.

Its amazing how so many people are so easily willing to ignore the fact that these guys were found not guilty of all charges in a court of law.

upandcumming

Larbre34 wrote: »

In discussions with my peer groups about the trial and especially since the verdict, I've been saying more or less what the Solicitor there on CB has just said, i.e. that any review of their employment must only be about their employment and the terms of their contracts but Ive been attacked for saying it.

Its amazing how so many people are so easily willing to ignore the fact that these guys were found not guilty of all charges in a court of law.

Time to get new peers.

RabbleRouser2k

It was interesting- offered explanations in one area, and also pointed out new problems that I hadn't considered. I think there was a lot of discussion of both the legal angle, and the lobby group thing.
Was far too brief however.

JRant

Grayson wrote: »

They deleted messages. That's destroying evidence.

And I explained why I believed they were guilty. It was the same post where I said i thought they were guilty so you read it. Also, I don't know why you feel the need to put quotation marks around it.

Oh I read it alright and they are some very serious claims to be making.

First up, on both of your charges they were all found not guilty. What gives you the right to, in effect, call these men rapists and criminals?

Should due process be ignored because you "think" you are right and know more than the jury who sat through the entire case?

Silentcorner

Larbre34 wrote: »

In discussions with my peer groups about the trial and especially since the verdict, I've been saying more or less what the Solicitor there on CB has just said, i.e. that any review of their employment must only be about their employment and the terms of their contracts but Ive been attacked for saying it.

Its amazing how so many people are so easily willing to ignore the fact that these guys were found not guilty of all charges in a court of law.

I think it is amazing how people underestimate how infamous this trial is/was, it is being discussed in every household and every workplace, social gathering, as a consequence it has had a massive impact on Irish people.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but this could not have come at a worse time for everyone concerned.

This case has provoked the largest collective discussion on all aspects of sexualt assault/rape/consent certainly in my lifetime.

It is also one of the most divisive cases in my lifetime, such was the nature of the trial, the media attention, the exposure the 4 lads received, the unprecedented 7 day cross examination of a young woman who claimed to have been a victim of a brutal crime.

Separate to that, we are at a point where professional sportsmen assume a kind of a gladiator type persona in Irish cities as a consequence of succeeding on the field of play. These guys are afforded a profile that allows them to reap huge financial rewards for that success.

Irish professional rugby is still in its infancy and it's ability to grow and succeed is very impressive, what now remains to be seen is how it responds to its biggest off field controversy certainly since the 70s.

Somehow, Irish Rugby, which should be celebrating a very successful year, has found itself in the middle of a tide of two external and powerful forces, on the one hand, the metoo movement which has led to the ibelieveher movement here in Ireland, and the more silent (apart from on here) but equally forceful male equivalent, men who believe that male rights are being eroded in the face of these feminist social contributors evident in media and social media.

It is such a circus, the verdicts only threw fuel on the fire that was already raging!

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think it is amazing how people underestimate how infamous this trial is/was, it is being discussed in every household and every workplace, social gathering, as a consequence it has had a massive impact on Irish people.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but this could not have come at a worse time for everyone concerned.

This case has provoked the largest collective discussion on all aspects of sexualt assault/rape/consent certainly in my lifetime.

It is also one of the most divisive cases in my lifetime, such was the nature of the trial, the media attention, the exposure the 4 lads received, the unprecedented 7 day cross examination of a young woman who claimed to have been a victim of a brutal crime.

Separate to that, we are at a point where professional sportsmen assume a kind of a gladiator type persona in Irish cities as a consequence of succeeding on the field of play. These guys are afforded a profile that allows them to reap huge financial rewards for that success.

Irish professional rugby is still in its infancy and it's ability to grow and succeed is very impressive, what now remains to be seen is how it responds to its biggest off field controversy certainly since the 70s.

Somehow, Irish Rugby, which should be celebrating a very successful year, has found itself in the middle of a tide of two external and powerful forces, on the one hand, the metoo movement which has led to the ibelieveher movement here in Ireland, and the more silent (apart from on here) but equally forceful male equivalent, men who believe that male rights are being eroded in the face of these feminist social contributors evident in media and social media.

It is such a circus, the verdicts only threw fuel on the fire that was already raging!

That's all very emotive and right on. But I don't think too many will be thinking of the trial or letting it spoil their enjoyment when Leinister and Munster line out for their semi finals.
There is far to much of this sort of emoting going on by some who are desperately trying to keep it going. But it is on the wane.
Poll is now up and over 12,000 and heading towards 13,000
https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=453366214&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.nafta_milestone_share_ask_victory.control

Silentcorner

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's all very emotive and right on. But I don't think too many will be thinking of the trial or letting it spoil their enjoyment when Leinister and Munster line out for their semi finals.
There is far to much of this sort of emoting going on by some who are desperately trying to keep it going. But it is on the wane.
Poll is now up and over 12,000 and heading towards 13,000
https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=453366214&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.nafta_milestone_share_ask_victory.control

How can you say it is on the wane, when the poll, which is canvasing for support for 2 of the lads has attracted about 12,000 signatures in the space of one or two days...

Especially when there is a seperate poll with 65,000 people cancasing for the exact opposite.

And we haven't yet heard from the IRFU or Ulster Rugby...one side is going to be very unhappy...

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

How can you say it is on the wane, when the poll, which is canvasing for support for 2 of the lads has attracted about 12,000 signatures in the space of one or two days...

Especially when there is a seperate poll with 65,000 people cancasing for the exact opposite.

And we haven't yet heard from the IRFU or Ulster Rugby...one side is going to be very unhappy...

If they are not allowed to play, one side will be 'sad'. And will have some empathy with a couple of guys who have paid a massive price to what amounts to a self righteous mob.

Silentcorner

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they are not allowed to play, one side will be 'sad'. And will have some empathy with a couple of guys who have paid a massive price to what amounts to a self righteous mob.

Maybe Francie...maybe...

Those damn self righteous mobs...not an ounce of self awareness amongst the lot of them!!

Fann Linn

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think it is amazing how people underestimate how infamous this trial is/was, it is being discussed in every household and every workplace, social gathering, as a consequence it has had a massive impact on Irish people.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but this could not have come at a worse time for everyone concerned.

This case has provoked the largest collective discussion on all aspects of sexualt assault/rape/consent certainly in my lifetime.

It is also one of the most divisive cases in my lifetime, such was the nature of the trial, the media attention, the exposure the 4 lads received, the unprecedented 7 day cross examination of a young woman who claimed to have been a victim of a brutal crime.

Separate to that, we are at a point where professional sportsmen assume a kind of a gladiator type persona in Irish cities as a consequence of succeeding on the field of play. These guys are afforded a profile that allows them to reap huge financial rewards for that success.

Irish professional rugby is still in its infancy and it's ability to grow and succeed is very impressive, what now remains to be seen is how it responds to its biggest off field controversy certainly since the 70s.

Somehow, Irish Rugby, which should be celebrating a very successful year, has found itself in the middle of a tide of two external and powerful forces, on the one hand, the metoo movement which has led to the ibelieveher movement here in Ireland, and the more silent (apart from on here) but equally forceful male equivalent, men who believe that male rights are being eroded in the face of these feminist social contributors evident in media and social media.

It is such a circus, the verdicts only threw fuel on the fire that was already raging!

I don't think its as big a deal now as it was initially. In our place today, the chat was, the masters, the alleged terrorist attack in Germany, brexit, Man city getting beaten and national spring clean.

Far more things happening at a faster pace with Syria, 8 Referendum etc.

There's only so many times the wheel can go around before people move on. I'll look forward to Ulster Rugby's review / report.

bloodless_coup

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hopefully it will be a bit more balanced than the Prime Time sham on the night of the verdict.
The online poll is now up to nearly 12,000
https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=453366214&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.nafta_milestone_share_ask_victory.control

The petition seems to have disappeared. Link doesn't work and search only brings up the mob backed petition.

Tell me how

doylefe wrote:

The petition seems to have disappeared. Link doesn't work and search only brings up the mob backed petition.

What the f*ck makes the other petition "mob backed" but this more admirable?

Surely if it got numbers to beat the other it therefore would qualify as a larger mob....

Ridiculous initiative competing with a ridiculous initiative, each side accusing the other of being ridiculous.

bloodless_coup

Tell me how wrote: »

What the f*ck makes the other petition "mob backed" but this more admirable?

Social media outrage mob who ignore the court decision and are trying to destroy the guys careers vs rational people.

RabbleRouser2k

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's all very emotive and right on. But I don't think too many will be thinking of the trial or letting it spoil their enjoyment when Leinister and Munster line out for their semi finals.
There is far to much of this sort of emoting going on by some who are desperately trying to keep it going. But it is on the wane.
Poll is now up and over 12,000 and heading towards 13,000
https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rugby-get-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby?recruiter=453366214&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.nafta_milestone_share_ask_victory.control

People started spam signing that-one person wrote Jimmy Saville...

Apparently it was deleted-strange too, they were clamouring for 18 000 sigs. It hadn't reached that amount.

Sam Quentin

Only children believe social media polls make a difference in normal life.
Thank God responsible adults and authoritarian figures are starting to view social media as no more than a group of individuals talking shít at the end of the night in a bar......

RabbleRouser2k

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Only children believe social media polls make a difference in normal life.
Thank God responsible adults and authoritarian figures are starting to view social media as no more than a group of individuals talking shít at the end of the night in a bar......

I'd love to believe that, but every show seems to have a poll-even going back to the 90s. Yeesh.

I think social media has just become this burden-which is a shame. But sadly it is a good gauge for the average person-unfortunately.

Who was it called Twitter a digital cesspit? Name escapes me.

professore

cloudatlas wrote: »

Yep there it is, women who enjoy sex and have multiple partners sluts men who do legends. And then there is Tretorn who suggests that he is waiting for a woman who wants only him so he can procreate with her. Lust is incompatible with innocence kind of stuff that just smacks of catholicism. Archaic, sex shamey out of date.

****boys? And nothing stopping women making up a derogatory term for a man every woman wants to ****.

A woman that can **** lots of men, that's not an achievement. All she needs is to not be hideously obese or ugly. A man on the other hand needs a lot of qualities and hard work to do the same.

That's why there is a double standard. Because it actually is two different standards.

FrancieBrady

Tell me how wrote: »

What the f*ck makes the other petition "mob backed" but this more admirable?

Surely if it got numbers to beat the other it therefore would qualify as a larger mob....

Ridiculous initiative competing with a ridiculous initiative, each side accusing the other of being ridiculous.

The reason I refer to it as a 'mob' is that you will see again and again reference being made to the 'whole country' and 'everyone' is outraged about this.
Yet well less than 100,000 have signed a petition.

Nettle Soup

pleas advice wrote: »

trial by media on Claire Byrne right now, 55% of those polled don't want paddy jackson or stewart olding playing for Ireland again,

They have a point. We are blessed for centres at the moment and I could only see Jackson on the subs bench with Sexton and Carberry preferred options.

VinLieger

Silentcorner wrote: »

How can you say it is on the wane, when the poll, which is canvasing for support for 2 of the lads has attracted about 12,000 signatures in the space of one or two days...

Especially when there is a seperate poll with 65,000 people cancasing for the exact opposite.

And we haven't yet heard from the IRFU or Ulster Rugby...one side is going to be very unhappy...

That poll is a farce setup by angry clueless people, its first iteration was demanding that the IRFU and Ulster rugby review the contracts of all 4 of the men involved in the case, which is hilarious considering 2 of them do not have a contract with either the IRFU or Ulster Rugby.

It was setup demanding the IRFU and Ulster Rugby review the players conduct a full day after AFTER the IRFU and Ulster Rugby had already announced that's exactly what they were going to do.

The people involved with the poll evidently didn't really care or were aware of the real facts and just wanted to stamp and scream in anger

Fann Linn

Majority of Ulster supporters want them back according to NT radio. I suppose they pay their wages.

facehugger99

VinLieger wrote: »

That poll is a farce setup by angry clueless people, its first iteration was demanding that the IRFU and Ulster rugby review the contracts of all 4 of the men involved in the case, which is hilarious considering 2 of them do not have a contract with either the IRFU or Ulster Rugby.

It was setup demanding the IRFU and Ulster Rugby review the players conduct a full day after AFTER the IRFU and Ulster Rugby had already announced that's exactly what they were going to do.

The people involved with the poll evidently didn't really care or were aware of the real facts and just wanted to stamp and scream in anger

Doesn't really matter who set up the petition, the facts are that public sentiment is very much against either of these guys being allowed to represent our country, that much is undeniable.

Sponsors and advertisers will have already taken note of the public mood.

Meyers and Hook were removed from their jobs for far less once it became clear there was a risk to the bottom line.

At the end of the day, neither of them are good enough for the IRFU to risk losing money and public support on

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Doesn't really matter who set up the petition, the facts are that public sentiment is very much against either of these guys being allowed to represent our country, that much is undeniable.

Sponsors and advertisers will have already taken note of the public mood.

Meyers and Hook were removed from their jobs for far less once it became clear there was a risk to the bottom line.

At the end of the day, neither of them are good enough for the IRFU to risk losing money and public support on

How can you claim that when there are nearly 6 million people on this island and well less that 100,000 voted in a petition?

[Deleted User]

facehugger99 wrote: »

Doesn't really matter who set up the petition, the facts are that public sentiment is very much against either of these guys being allowed to represent our country, that much is undeniable.

Sponsors and advertisers will have already taken note of the public mood.

Meyers and Hook were removed from their jobs for far less once it became clear there was a risk to the bottom line.

At the end of the day, neither of them are good enough for the IRFU to risk losing money and public support on

There should have been some kind of rugby-related quiz before people could sign the petition, just to get a gauge around whether these people are just jumping on the bandwagon, or whether they actually care about the sport.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How can you claim that when there are nearly 6 million people on this island and well less that 100,000 voted in a petition?

Online commentary, newspaper articles, radio and tv spots, canteen conversations, discussions with friends and family.

Most people would be horrified at the notion of Paddy Jackson running out in the Aviva in the green jersey.

[Deleted User]

facehugger99 wrote: »

Online commentary, newspaper articles, radio and tv spots, canteen conversations, discussions with friends and family.

Most people would be horrified at the notion of Paddy Jackson running out in the Aviva in the green jersey.

I'm not joking, but not one person I've talked to about it would feel that way.....and I've talked to a lot of people.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Online commentary, newspaper articles, radio and tv spots, canteen conversations, discussions with friends and family.

Most people would be horrified at the notion of Paddy Jackson running out in the Aviva in the green jersey.

You have absolutely no proof then for the 'most people' claim.