bk wrote: » Again, not really disagreeing with you as such, but I will say it could be technically possible. Lots of European cities have done it. But they did it by completely banning cars and taxis from their city centers and also removing most buses and giving most of the space over to trams, pedestrians and bikes. While I'd love to see that happen. Realistically such a move would face tremendous political opposition from a bunch of rich and well connected folks, so very unlikely to actually fly. And I suspect McDowell knows this perfectly well when he suggested it. Can Metrolink on the promise of building 6 Luas lines instead, knowing perfectly well that when it came to it the 6 Luas lines would face massive opposition and never get built and thus we end up with nothing but a stupid second M50.
marno21 wrote: » I think we're in total agreement here to be honest - I wasn't trying to argue!
marno21 wrote: » I also think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded point above - really is the major issue going forward for any surface based transport system be it bus or tram.
bk wrote: » Oh no argument at all, just explaining for others who happen to read. Sorry if it came across that way.
bk wrote: » The battle for the resource of limited road space. We don't like inconveniencing other people with change in Ireland, but we are going to have to get use to it, we don't have the space in Dublin any longer to keep everyone equally happy.
marno21 wrote: » Not at all - it was me not trying to come across that way.
ignorance is strength wrote: » And everyone lived happily ever after.
citizen6 wrote: » I would extend the proposed Finglas Luas to a new SDZ just outside the M50, with the Park+Ride just north of that again. SDZ would incorporate Metro West as well.
bk wrote: » Dublin Industrial Estate should become a SDZ. A 100 acre light industrial site with mostly one or two storey warehouse buildings, could be developed into thousands of apartments and offices. Prime location, both Broombridge Luas stop and Broombridge rail station right in the middle of it. Whitworth Road station with Metro not even 1km away, an extended Luas to Finglas likely to run right through the center of it. Would become one of the best connected locations in the city and we are wastefully using it for low quality light industrial use clsoe to the city! Stupid.
LeinsterDub wrote: » The current lines don't have capacity for branching .
Nermal wrote: » Send the red line underground at Fatima, across to at least Stephen's Green and perhaps on to Pearse.
cgcsb wrote: » Agree, Dublin Industrial estate no longer serves it's original purpose, most of the units are empty or used to house churches and gyms. The unit size is too small for modern warehousing and there is no motorway access. The site is also at a key PT interchange, with a Park to the North (no shadowing impact from high rise), right on the canal walking/cycle way, it's a short distance to the City Centre and would serve as a walkable 'connection' between the growing Ashtown area and Glasnevin. Ideally it could house 10,000 people or more. The City's population needs to be refocused on the centre, it's no good having half the metropolitan population living outside the ring road. SDZs like this are the perfect opportunity to do that.
Nermal wrote: » Send the red line underground at Fatima, across to at least Stephen's Green and perhaps on to Pearse. Now half the trams from Tallaght go northside on the existing route, half go southside. Same for those from Blanchardstown.
bk wrote: » So a Metro line which replicates/replaces the DART Underground route. I've suggested the same myself before, a Metro route starting deep in the redeveloped docklands area, following roughly the DU route to Hueston and then onto Lucan as a cheaper alternative to DU. There are a lot of folk who would be very unhappy with that idea, but it does have advantages.
murphaph wrote: » To be honest I'd be strongly against an East West tunnel that wasn't DU. It's the same reason why it makes sense to upgrade the green line for small beer during the metro North build. You are capitalising on the expensive tunnel part by allowing existing infrastructure to feed it.Post metro and DU the bus network would fundamentally shift focus from an lar to "nearest metro/DART station".
murphaph wrote: » To be honest I'd be strongly against an East West tunnel that wasn't DU. It's the same reason why it makes sense to upgrade the green line for small beer during the metro North build. You are capitalising on the expensive tunnel part by allowing existing infrastructure to feed it. Post metro and DU the bus network would fundamentally shift focus from an lar to "nearest metro/DART station".
murphaph wrote: » Post metro and DU the bus network would fundamentally shift focus from an lar to "nearest metro/DART station".
Nermal wrote: » Interesting point. Perhaps Blanch/Lucan commuters would be happy converging on Heuston via the Luas and changing to DU if the frequency was high.
LXFlyer wrote: » Except for the south central swathe between the (current) LUAS lines, and the area around the Malahide Road - those areas would still require a major city centre bus operation. They aren’t inconsequential by any means.
murphaph wrote: » Indeed I agree that that swathe of the city would still need a rail artery to plug the gap and given the options it would realistically have to be underground. But metro capacity on the green line would certainly open up places like Rathfarnham to bus rerouting to send most buses eastwards towards a metro interchange. Templeogue maybe not so much. The red line is also a genuine candidate for underground running from Rialto, allowing a significant increase in frequency as most of the route from there out to the termini is actually already highly segregated with a few pinch points like at the Long Mile Road junction, which could be grade separated. This would allow significant rerouting of buses to the east of the red line to feed it also.
bk wrote: » Yes, it could be similar with what will happen on the Green line with people from south of Sandyford changing from Luas to an upgraded Metro at Sandyford. It would require closely aligned platforms, high frequency and fully integrated ticketing. Though doing this would be more for Lucan then Blanch. Don't forget Blanch will be getting DARTs on the Maynooth line into Connolly-Tara-Pearse (most likely) and could also connect onto Metrolink at Whitworth Road for O'Connell St/SSG/Airport/Swords. A local bus service for Blanch similar to the Finglas one would make sense to feed Castleknock station.
blanch152 wrote: » The infrastructure around Castleknock station wouldn't allow for this.
marno21 wrote: » I don't think anyone has mentioned Metro West or similar yet either. Such a project would be meritorious as it stops everyone having to go to the city centre to access a different radial element of the city, and would help provide further accessibility to the sprawl created by the M50 which is now creating sufficient journeys to warrant a decent public transport system. Someone going from Citywest to the Airport could use Metro West rather than clogging the Metro and Luas lines to the city centre to achieve such a journey.
jvan wrote: » Probably pie in the sky stuff, but id like to see something similar. But linking all the way as far as the dart in Shankill or Killiney. An orbital route extending from the coast via Sandyford, linking on towards Tallaght and the red line and heading north towards Blanchardstown linking with the heavy rail along the route. Whether it would have to loop all the way around to the airport im not sure depending on other routes. Like i say, it would probably cost way too much but it would be on a wish list, whether the journey numbers would warrent it would have to be studied. But would certainly open up huge areas of housing to employment areas.
