Funny/Unusual records

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Regarding "Mick Leonard to Anne McNamara Barns?", any chance 'Barns' should actually read 'Banns'?

Eureka!

'Banns dispensed on account of their going to America that day' makes perfect sense.

I was looking at it as being part of a double barrel name, being a capital letter. Barnes/Barns, however is a much more Anglo name than Irish, so I did wonder.

Incidentally, banns only works as a plural. Bann is not a word, as only yesterday, while playing Scrabble, I placed bann as a word and was quite shocked when it was rejected when I tried to play it.

While looking for one death cert, I found another entry where the cause of death certainly raises curiosity to the highest level!

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06234/4784312.pdf

In the 3rd entry, that of 27 year old Mary Elizabeth McMorrough, the cause of death, as far as I can read it, states: 'By having discharged into her head the contents of a loaded revolver - certified inquest'

Not sure if I'm reading the rank or profession correctly - it appears to be 'wife of a salesmaster clerk'.

Informant: Information received from ??? ??? coroner for the County of Dublin

Being shot accidentally would most likely involve only one shot, but it wouldn't appear to be accidental if it's contents of a loaded revolver. Does that imply it was more than one shot and the gun was fully loaded?

I put the name into a Google search, just in case there may have been some historical news article about it, but it didn't return anything. Does anyone know how common gun ownership was in Ireland in the late 19th Century? Had she been wife of a soldier, that may account for the mention of a revolver, but otherwise, nothing.

The bit you're missing is the coroner's name F something Esq.

Definitely worth checking newspapers on this one, An inquest would have been reported.

Peregrinus

It could have been loaded with only the one bullet, so one shot would have represented "the contents" of the revolver.

Leaving aside murder or manslaughter, which certainly would make the papers, the possibilities are suicide or accident. This could be a euphemism for suicide, or it could be than in the particular circumstances they couldn't be sure whether it was suicide or accident.

Revolvers were certainly more readily available, and more common, in 1886 than today. Stricter gun control laws are a twentieth-century thing.

shanew

DamoRed wrote: »

.....Informant: Information received from ??? ??? coroner for the County of Dublin
..

possibly Frans. J. Davys, M.D. county coroner, res. in Swords
(Thom's 1885)

There is an F at the start and a Y at the end, so that certainly clears that one up. Thank you.

shanew

Freemans Journal, Friday, 3rd September 1886, page 5

"Sad Suicide of a young married woman" - DamoRed, I will pm you the details

Thank you, ShaneW. Very sad indeed. Especially for her 13 year old sister-in-law to hear it happen and then to see her having got the assistance of a neighbour.

Those who wish to find that article may do so in the knowledge they're not impinging on my privacy. This woman was not related to me, and I found the record of her death purely by chance, while searching another relative (who turned out not to be related after all)

pedroeibar1

DamoRed wrote: »

....... the cause of death, as far as I can read it, states: 'By having discharged into her head the contents of a loaded revolver - certified inquest'.....Being shot accidentally would most likely involve only one shot, but it wouldn't appear to be accidental if it's contents of a loaded revolver. Does that imply it was more than one shot and the gun was fully loaded?

One shot into the head – if it did not kill outright – would incapacitate the shooter so severely that firing another would be impossible.

Like most medical / bureaucratic comment the language of officialdom often is archaic. When the hammer is pulled back after firing a shot the next cylinder containing its cartridge revolves 60 degrees into line with the barrel and is ready to fire. That is the reason why most revolvers have six cylinders (6 x 60 = 360 degrees). The ‘contents’ in this case would refer to a single bullet and it is a term dating to muzzle-loading firearms, a system that predates the event. The firearm (musket or pistol) was held upright and the contents loaded through the muzzle – powder, wad and ball.

Aside from sparing any family feelings, coroners often strove to an ‘open verdict’ or ‘accidental death while cleaning a firearm’ because – generally - death by suicide meant that any life insurance company would not pay out. (In modern times there is a two-year exclusion clause i.e. no cover if death by suicide occurs within 2 years of policy inception.)

tabbey

Funny / Unusual Records.

Many of these are to be found in RC parish records which I perused extensively in the NLI before they went online.
I often felt reluctant to post these because they reveal the attitudes of priests who never dreamt that centuries later the people of the world would read them in their homes.
But here goes, a few from the parish of Moycarkey & Borris (in diocese of Cashel & Emly)

1850 - November 30th (Marriage) - Michl (or Nichs / Richd) Moor and Margt Fitzpatrick were married by Revd Robt Grace in presence of Michl (or Richd) B... and Judi Fitzpatrick.
Said Moor the most infamous blackguard that ever disgraced a parish.
_________________________________
And a couple from 1836:

1836 April 29th (baptism) Winifred? A foundling.
Sponsor: Brigit Mullally.
Said foundling was exposed at Mullally's house at Leigh and presented for baptism by his daughter Brigit, a person of very immoral character.
___________________________________

1836 Nov/Dec (month unclear) 18th, (very difficult to read, at bottom of page)
Patk, illegit. of .... Maunder? and Cath Fox (a kept woman)
Sponsor: Hanna Brennan of Freshford, Co K(ilkenny) + ... ...
NB (If?) Another man or woman could be induced to stand for the bastard ... Fox? ...

Thanks for those Tabbey. Crikey! There must be tons more we haven't come across as yet.

This is not from any search I've done, but something I've just seen on Twitter which must be shared...

https://twitter.com/mrfeelswildride/status/982010376454729730

Where to start! :eek: '...explain the relationships' it says. Good luck with that!

I have come across similar on Ancestry. A lot of authors are not great at building trees.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I have come across similar on Ancestry. A lot of authors are not great at building trees.

Do not get me started!

I wish I had taken note of the Tree but one poor divil gave birth three times in one year on two different continents.

shar01 wrote: »

Do not get me started!

I wish I had taken note of the Tree but one poor divil gave birth three times in one year on two different continents.

:eek:

Yep - reckon the Tree owner was just adding every hint. Hopefully come across it again.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01329/1548893.pdf

In-laws of my great grandmother - second last entry - Padraig Pearse Kent. I'm guessing no connection to the Pearses, just indicative of the sentiment of the time.

tabbey

shar01 wrote: »

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01329/1548893.pdf

In-laws of my great grandmother - second last entry - Padraig Pearse Kent. I'm guessing no connection to the Pearses, just indicative of the sentiment of the time.

I assume the father Edward Kent is not the Edmond Kent / Eamonn Ceannt executed following the Easter rising in 1916.

That did cross my mind

Padraig Kent's father was Edward Sylvester Kent, born 1885.

Although I did find a Monica Pierce in the 1911 Census as a niece to Padraig's grandfather, Patrick Sylvester Kent.

I'll do a bit more digging on the Kents today.

Just realised now that 3 (at that stage) unrelated members of my ancestry are baptised on the same page of a church register!

Martin Mahony at the top right is the brother of my gg-grandmother, Annie. Further down that page are twins Cornelius and Mary Joyce, whose brother was the future husband of Annie!

And if you can find their school record, (I think on Findmypast?) they'll probably be all in class together too!

Following on from my thread looking for Irwins last week, this child of theirs was born in Dublin (the family moved between here and Limerick a few times).

Patrick Joseph was not baptised in St Andrews because he wasn't from the parish, according to the register! I've never seen that before.

https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000633496_229?print=true

Mumha

My Great Grandfather was a Special Constable during the Land Wars and was accused of assault in a rather dramatic accusation !

Fascinating Mumha. It's like a scene from Poldark!!! Did you check "12 & 13" noted on the bottom?

Mumha

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Fascinating Mumha. It's like a scene from Poldark!!! Did you check "12 & 13" noted on the bottom?

I actually didn't but I suspect it was probably more charges connected with the incident. I have this account from a book about the Land Wars in Grenagh by John J. Duggan though (see towards end of Page 7)

I should point out that My Great Grandfather was billeted on the Golden farm with another officer, that's why Thomas and Ann (and their son Batt) are down as witnesses. I should also point out that in 1886, William married one of their daughters, Anne ! So I have 3 of my Great Grandparents mentioned in this !

p.s. Thomas never really recovered from those attacks on him, and died about 18 months later.

kanadams123

I wish i kept the link, but i found a household on the 1911 census with someone listed as "Mother Relative"
I found it odd, as i am sure this person was the mother of the head of household.

I'm currently looking through shared matches on Ancestry, trying to narrow down a possible father for my grandmother.

I've come across a tree going back to Laodice Antiochus of Macedonia. The same tree includes Gymer Raan Gymir Aegir (214-238) of Scandinavia.

I'm delighted to have gotten back to 5th great grandfather in the late 1700s so I doff my cap to this person.

Hermy

I wouldn't be so quick to doff the cap. No one has yet managed to accurately trace their lineage to antiquity.

Yeah - I suppose it was a bit tongue in cheek - I must make better use of the smilies. Interesting link.