Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well I was being ironical and facetious with my statement to highlight the complete madness of your "rape culture" status... But I see it has went right over your head.

The extreme left is made up of SJW and feminists who have now got to the point they turning on the anyone that calls BS to their logic this includes people who are left leaning and liberal in their thinking, these extreme leftist who boarder on being fascist try to brand anyone who is not as extreme as them as "alr-right"

You just sound crazy!

"Rape culture" was coined in the US around a claim that 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted or raped on college campuses, a claim that was never backed up with facts and has been shown to be inaccurate..
It is a term that implies that rape as it is part of a culture is acceptable or normalized which is not nor has it been.
Rape Culture does not exist apart from in the vocabulary of the ill-informed or the extreme left mind set.

I think it was originally 1 in 6, and then went to one in five, and some even use the 1 in four statistic.

The more accurate statistic is something like 1 in 0.06, or something. But that's not snazzy enough for a placard.

foxyladyxx

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Why just men?

Here's the link to Sober Paddy

http://soberpaddy.com/how-not-to-be-a-rapist/

Snip

How Not to Be A Rapist
Lads, it is not easy these days. What with the feminists and the social media and the video cameras. It is getting harder and harder to go out and have a good time without someone crying rape.

What can be done about it? How can we reset this imbalance? How can we change it to make ourselves accepted into society again? How can we stop these liberal new age ideals from crippling our ability to have a good old fashioned “laddish” time?

Read on because you are in luck. I have the answers.

Here are my credentials

I have gotten through forty-one years of my life without raping anyone. With one in four women in the world sexually assaulted or raped, that is no mean feat. That’s almost 1 BILLION women. That is a monstrous statistic. That is a serious amount of sex assaulters and rapists. How did it get to be such a big number? Most of us are alright, right?

Well, here is how I managed to not rape anyone, yet still enjoy relationships with many women including – 9 years now married and faithful to one amazing woman.

I am going to share my three top tips for not raping. This is foolproof. I mean, let’s face it, who wants the career-stunting question mark of “Definite Possible Probable Charged with being a Rapist but eventually acquitted?” hanging over them. It is not cool. Especially if you have to get Daddy to bail you out. And expensive lawyers. Not cool at all.

So here are my top three tips for avoiding this irritation.

1. Don’t Rape
What?? Seems obvious right? But let me tell you, this is the fundamental starting point for us men. It is the cement that holds all the blocks together. Do not rape. No rape. Raping is the worst thing you can do as a man… the worst. It is the most vile and loathsome act you can perpetrate upon another human. They are teaching kids in Africa not to rape. It is probably time we taught it in Ireland. Again, do not rape.

If you are the one with the lump of swizzily mushroom shaped cheese hanging between your legs, you are the man. You have the penis. And you are the one responsible for what happens with your penis. You are the one who can do the raping. It is your responsibility to know that when you take it out, that the other person is happy to be on the receiving end.

This is your obligation, legally and morally and sexually. You are the only one responsible for what your penis goes into. The responsibility of the penis is yours. Remember that. At all times. Seems simple right?

But what exactly is rape you might ask?

Here is the definition of rape – just so we are clear on what it is. This is a dictionary definition, not a legal framework or legal understanding of what is, or isn’t rape. I have to admit that I did just google this, and I was a little surprised with the result.

Rape is unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person’s will…or with a person beneath a certain age, or incapable of valid consent due to mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness or deception.

Here is why I was surprised reading this – I get the forcibly and threatening side of things, but if someone else is intoxicated and you have sex, then you are raping them. Or at least, you could be raping them. How is their consent legitimate if they are drunk and don’t know better? What if you are drunk and not thinking clearly? Heavy going right?

I think of rapists in two ways – there is the classic rapist. This is the pre-meditating psycho who stalks and preys upon innocent victims. This is the deviant who already knows that what he is doing is wrong. He desires to enforce himself and show his power. He knows he is a rapist. He needs to actively subvert that other human and bends them to his perverse sexual will. They do not recognise any kind of responsibility to the other human. Giving them tips on how not to rape is pointless.

Then there is the casual rapist. This is the irresponsible and misogynistic sort who craves their own ego and lusts to be satisfied whatever the cost. This might be someone who loses control after drinking or drugs and allows a dark suppressed side of them to come out. Or it may be a group of men who cajole each other to further depraved and immoral ways of conducting themselves… more often than not with women. These are the sorts who would not consider themselves to be rapists… but by definition they are.

The not so subtle way of understanding this definition
If someone is unconscious, mentally deficient or too drunk to be responsible for themselves and you have “sex” with them, you have according to the law “raped” them. If you deceive someone in some way about what is happening and have sex with them… again, you have raped them. It is not a joke. It is not consensual. Just because they don’t say no, does not mean they consent.

That’s a mad sentence… what?! – JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T SAY NO, DOES NOT MEAN THEY CONSENT.

Weird right lads? Yeah, I know. You could be out having a great time, drinking a geansaí load of pints, shots and cocktails. You could meet a woman, take her home and bang her in the airing cupboard of your mate’s gaf. Top story. Top night. Top shagger.

But things may not be as good as you think they are. You may, in fact, have committed rape. That girl or woman may have had too much to drink and been incapacitated at a certain level. She may remember being afraid and feeling powerless as you maneuvered her into a room and put yourself inside her. She may check in the morning and finds traces of your semen inside her and on her knickers. You obviously did not use a condom as you were too ****ing horny and she was “up for it”.

But, in fact, she was not up for it and she had not given consent. She leaves angry and feels violated. She tells her best friend, who tells her to call the cops or the rape crisis centre. She doesn’t bother as she knows the system is so stacked against her that it is not worth it.

She takes a morning-after pill and books herself in for a sexual health check.
You may have gotten away with it, and the girl may have to shoulder the shame and the disgusting feeling around with her. Or she may report you to the cops. And you could get brought to court to stand trial. You will probably get away with it because it is so hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt. The system has been set up by the wig-wearing Patriarchs to protect We, the penis bearers.

But it boils down to this.

As the person with the penis, it is fundamental that you know for sure that the girl wants to have sex. The best way to know this is to ask her. Nicely. It is up to you to know she is of clear mind and able to give you the nod of approval, the invitation or whatever it needs to be, so you can make love or **** or shag… whatever it is that you want to call it.

As the person with the penis, you can do this without ruining the moment. It can be done by asking very sweetly or saucily, or telling the girl you would like to… asking her if she would like to. You can whisper it to her. Or she can take the lead and be in complete control and charge. Whatever it takes to ensure you have valid consent. Remember, that is what you have to do.

Having the penis means you are the one who rapes. It is not the other way round.
Situations where you need to get clarity include (but not restricted to)

If you have just met the girl
If there is any doubt about her level of consciousness or drunkenness.
If the situation is out of the norm (like, more than one guy with one girl).
Any other time that you want to have sex with a woman.
GET SOME ****ING CLARITY AND ASK HER.

So before you go shagging anyone, make sure you know they are into it. Make sure it is clear. If you are too drunk or deranged to do this, then you leave yourself open to raping. Fact.

This is not a test run. I repeat – this is not a test run. If you **** up once, you are a rapist. If you get away with it, you are still a rapist.

This brings me up to my next tip.

2. Don’t Rape
This might seem the same as the first. In fact, now that I see it written down, it is exactly the same. You see, in my experience, I have found that not raping is the only way to not rape. I cannot think of any other way of not raping.

I can hear some lads thinking “Don’t be a killjoy right – we’re not raping, just having a good time”. And I get it. There is a good time that needs to be had, but it should not be at the expense of raping someone.

The Male Group Mentality
Lads humour, dressing room banter and male group dynamics are part and parcel of many male lives. They are important for some for establishing status and rank. They can be ritualistic environments where it is taught to be tough and hard and careless. I have been there. You don’t show weakness unless you are completely confident and above that pack mentality.

There are borderline jokes and feelings get hurt. There is smut and derision and you would tend to show your most manly of faces here. In Ireland the more you like, love and know another man, the more likely you are to insult him. It is just the way it is.

What does this have to do with rape?

Well, you see, lads can get carried away in each other’s company. They egg each other on into situations which seem reckless, irresponsible and dangerous to more mature and intelligent minds. We have egos and testosterone that drive us to out-do each other. That can be tricky when it comes to women. Mix in a little misogyny and privilege and you have a powerful cocktail brewing.

Tipcorlad wrote: »

I cant post a link but if anyone is interested Soberpaddy on facebook has a really good article about consent on his page. It should be compulsory reading for all sexually active men.

Wow. That is a fantastic article.

Ulysses Gaze

Mrsmum wrote: »

Wow. That is a fantastic article.

It is a sad state of affairs when an article like that is needed.

upandcumming

hill16bhoy wrote:

Culture can be a belief system, a thought process, a way of acting, language. Or it can be a refusal to face up to the inherent ignorance in all of the previous four. Rape culture is all of those things.

Culture also implies societal.

There is no rape culture in Ireland, and I would hazard it is the same for most civilised countries.

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Here's the link to Sober Paddy

http://soberpaddy.com/how-not-to-be-a-rapist/

Snip

Is this serious or actually someone taking the piddle?

Like, the 'teaching kids not to rape' in Africa is because they have an actual...*drum roll*...rape culture.
I mean, it's a country that believes you can cure AIDs by raping a toddler. Where a pubescent girl is forced into marriage as soon she hits puberty-and then raped, becoming pregnant, where a pregnancy ravages her body and damages it internally.

Oh, and I haven't even gotten to the Female Genital Mutilation...

Don't rape? More like don't write rubbish.

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well I was being ironical and facetious with my statement to highlight the complete madness of your "rape culture" status... But I see it has went right over your head.

The extreme left is made up of SJW and feminists who have now got to the point they turning on the anyone that calls BS to their logic this includes people who are left leaning and liberal in their thinking, these extreme leftist who boarder on being fascist try to brand anyone who is not as extreme as them as "alr-right"

You just sound crazy!

"Rape culture" was coined in the US around a claim that 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted or raped on college campuses, a claim that was never backed up with facts and has been shown to be inaccurate..
It is a term that implies that rape as it is part of a culture is acceptable or normalized which is not nor has it been.
Rape Culture does not exist apart from in the vocabulary of the ill-informed or the extreme left mind set.

There was nothing remotely ironic or facetious in your post, so stop trying to backtrack, all while demonstrating that you haven't the first idea of what the words irony or facetiousness mean.

If you could deal with my points and tell me i) whether what I describe actually happens (I'll give you a clue - we've had all of them on this thread) and ii) whether each example I pointed out symbolises rape culture, that'd be great, thanks.

Another thing that is part of rape culture is the attempted use of sarcasm to trivialise and belittle extremely serious issues. It's a tool that's used over and over and over again by the alt-right to try and drag debates down rabbit holes.

You're not very good at all at using sarcasm, so don't bother trying to do so again.

upandcumming wrote: »

There is no rape culture in Ireland, and I would hazard it is the same for most civilised countries.

Statements are not arguments.

Tipcorlad

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Is this serious or actually someone taking the piddle?

Like, the 'teaching kids not to rape' in Africa is because they have an actual...*drum roll*...rape culture.
I mean, it's a country that believes you can cure AIDs by raping a toddler. Where a pubescent girl is forced into marriage as soon she hits puberty-and then raped, becoming pregnant, where a pregnancy ravages her body and damages it internally.

Oh, and I haven't even gotten to the Female Genital Mutilation...

Don't rape? More like don't write rubbish.

Thats what you took from the article? One line that you disagree with makes the rest of the article rubbish?
Its definitely an article ill be getting my son to read, just to hammer home the lessons im teaching him about consent and being a real man

Dyr

With apologies to Flann O'Brien

Rape Culture is a small stone in a stream
Rape Culture is the way a horse may gaze at you past its blinkers
Rape Culture is three days in Avoca
Rape Culture is the sound a fiddle doesn't make

Such a load of aul guff

Tipcorlad wrote: »

Thats what you took from the article? One line that you disagree with makes the rest of the article rubbish?
Its definitely an article ill be getting my son to read, just to hammer home the lessons im teaching him about consent and being a real man

Me too.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rise-in-rape-figures-reflects-trust-in-garda-stf3vk3c6

this is more important reading, I would think.

joe40

I think that soberpaddy article is brilliant, and great reading for any teenage boys and girls.

upandcumming

hill16bhoy wrote:

Rape culture is the denial that there is a problem with any of this.

I meant to mention this. Not accepting any opinion or challenges against what you believe is completely ridiculous.

hill16bhoy wrote:

Statements are not arguments.

You conveniently removed the first part of my post, so I'll write it again for you.

Culture also implies societal.
In Ireland, most people, do not accept rapists or perpetrators of sexual violence. Or indeed, most crime.
Saying that there is a rape culture in Ireland is just plain wrong, and people need to stop peddling this.

bloodless_coup

Craig Gilroy stood down by IRFU pending internal review based on something he said in a private conversation.

Tipcorlad wrote: »

Thats what you took from the article? One line that you disagree with makes the rest of the article rubbish?
Its definitely an article ill be getting my son to read, just to hammer home the lessons im teaching him about consent and being a real man

That was one point-the other was repeating the '1 in four' lie.

Others were based on his experiences, not research. The 'women want another woman there'-except no they often don't. It wasn't my experience, but I do know one girl who asked her friend to borrow a room so she could have a threeway with two guys. It came to a halt because it was her time of the month (she hadn't checked her calendar-monitor her cycle I mean).

Having the penis means you are the one who rapes. It is not the other way round.

Taken from the article-um, no. A teenaged boy who's raped by a woman, is not the one who committed the rape. A Melrose place actress has been accused of raping a teenaged boy who was ten years her junior.
There are many cases where men are raped by women-and yet the article ignores that.

As does it ignore other things, and grey areas.

Those are just a few issues I had, upon reading it over once or twice-there's far more that would grab me.

upandcumming

RabbleRouser2k wrote:

this is more important reading, I would think.

That is good news, and the more people that come forward, the better.

However, I fear that these marches and protests actually discourage people from reporting violent sexual crime.

doylefe wrote: »

Craig Gilroy stood down by IRFU pending internal review based on something he said in a private conversation.

I know the cover of the Mail on Sunday said there was another player involved in their Whatsapp-wonder if it's something to do with that?

upandcumming wrote: »

That is good news, and the more people that come forward, the better.

However, I fear that these marches and protests actually discourage people from reporting violent sexual crime.

Same-as does articles which have the 'I never reported my rape'-it promotes almost a 'proud to a victim' mentality.

UnknownSpecies

From international news today. This is rape culture - http://www.ibtimes.com/marital-rape-not-crime-indian-court-says-drops-charges-against-accused-2668445

We do not have anything in the same league as this, ffs.

FrancieBrady

Really good interview with a SC on RYE there.
Basically she was saying the southern trial system is diametrically different to the northern Irish one.
She reckons a third barrister would make a worse, more prolonged and and a more argumentative ordeal for a victim. And could see no significant advantages.

Lackey

doylefe wrote: »

Craig Gilroy stood down by IRFU pending internal review based on something he said in a private conversation.

Was wondering if something would happen he allegedly wrote in the group:
'any sluts get fu$ked'

upandcumming wrote: »

I meant to mention this. Not accepting any opinion or challenges against what you believe is completely ridiculous.

You conveniently removed the first part of my post, so I'll write it again for you.

Culture also implies societal.
In Ireland, most people, do not accept rapists or perpetrators of sexual violence. Or indeed, most crime.
Saying that there is a rape culture in Ireland is just plain wrong, and people need to stop peddling this.

The first part of your post didn't add anything, which is why I left it out.

Culture relates to society. It does not imply it relates to the whole of society, which would plainly be absurd - otherwise there would be pretty much no such thing as culture.

There is a culture of going to League of Ireland matches. There is a culture of traditional music in Ireland. There is a culture of binge drinking until you can't drink anymore. The vast, vast majority of people do not attend League of Ireland matches or play or go to listen to traditional music. That doesn't mean those things aren't culture. The majority of people do not binge drink until they can't walk. That doesn't mean there isn't a culture of binge drinking in Ireland.

I'm not really interested in going down the rabbit hole you're clearly intent on dragging me down.

You still haven't dealt with any of the examples of rape culture I gave.

Again - statements are not arguments.

UnknownSpecies wrote: »

From international news today. This is rape culture - http://www.ibtimes.com/marital-rape-not-crime-indian-court-says-drops-charges-against-accused-2668445

We do not have anything in the same league as this, ffs.

Phew, as a woman I feel so relieved by that info. Sure all is grand because we're not as bad as India. Gee thanks.

UnknownSpecies wrote: »

From international news today. This is rape culture - http://www.ibtimes.com/marital-rape-not-crime-indian-court-says-drops-charges-against-accused-2668445

We do not have anything in the same league as this, ffs.

Spousal rape was not a thing in this country until 1990.

A well known radio talk show host recently implied (2015) that there was no such thing as spousal rape.

That's the same radio talk show host who blamed a woman for her own rape last September.

He was widely supported for these comments.

But, sure, it's much easier to deflect by focussing on another country where things are worse.

It's like saying that corruption in Russia is worse than in Ireland, so there's no corruption in Ireland. That's called deflection and excuse making.