Al Porter Scandal

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sooo, what's your problem?

Nice tone.

I simply stated that in my opinion the way this appearance has been received would likely be different if Porter was straight and had committed his alleged crimes against women.

I didn't make any claims or statement about straight men being the victims.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Nice tone.

I simply stated that in my opinion the way this appearance has been received would likely be different if Porter was straight and had committed his alleged crimes against women.

I didn't make any claims or statement about straight men being the victims.

The 'one rule for straight men…' line always comes across as playing the victim card imo.

I also can't see anyone on here supporting him in the relation to his appearance at the George apart from a misguided attempt at trying to equate what he did with Jimmy Carr's indiscretions with the taxman. Tbh, most people have moved on and forgotten about him so the reality is that when he's not in the public eye, no one really gives a shít about him.

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I can't tell if you're being serious, but I really hope not.

We've been over this. If you can't see that grown men are better equipped to deal with a clumsy "attack" from a jumped up eejit like Al Porter than a woman might be I don't know what to tell ye.

Again, there is an inherent physical threat when a man accosts a woman like this that is just not there when it's a short, weakling bloke doing it to a grown man.... the "menace" is just not there.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Tbh, most people have moved on and forgotten about him so the reality is that when he's not in the public eye, no one really gives a shít about him.

Can't really argue with that...

WHIP IT! wrote: »

We've been over this. If you can't see that grown men are better equipped to deal with a clumsy "attack" from a jumped up eejit like Al Porter than a woman might be I don't know what to tell ye.

Again, there is an inherent physical threat when a man accosts a woman like this that is just not there when it's a short, weakling bloke doing it to a grown man.... the "menace" is just not there.

So that makes it okay then? Riiiight…

Buford T. Justice XIX

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sooo, what's your problem?

Mod note: Debate the point and not the poster please!

Buford T. Justice

kunst nugget wrote: »

So that makes it okay then? Riiiight…

Makes what okay?

WHIP IT! wrote: »

We've been over this. If you can't see that grown men are better equipped to deal with a clumsy "attack" from a jumped up eejit like Al Porter than a woman might be I don't know what to tell ye.

Again, there is an inherent physical threat when a man accosts a woman like this that is just not there when it's a short, weakling bloke doing it to a grown man.... the "menace" is just not there.

are you aware of the sexual assaults against Terry Crews and Brendan Fraiser?

being powerless/vulnerable is not about someone being physically stronger than you

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Makes what okay?

It's alright for Al Porter to sexual assault people because he was doing it to men and not women is essentially what you're saying.

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's alright for Al Porter to sexual assault people because he was doing it to men and not women is essentially what you're saying.

Who said that? I'm not 100% sure you have quoted the correct person.

kunst nugget wrote: »

The 'one rule for straight men…' line always comes across as playing the victim card imo.

I also can't see anyone on here supporting him in the relation to his appearance at the George apart from a misguided attempt at trying to equate what he did with Jimmy Carr's indiscretions with the taxman. Tbh, most people have moved on and forgotten about him so the reality is that when he's not in the public eye, no one really gives a shít about him.

I'm sorry - is your opinion considered fact now? Genuine question.

Others are entitled to their opinion too you know, even it it's different to yours (who'd have thought?). I explained the context in what I said in my post and it was not as you have alluded, yet you're continuing to bang this drum.

Can you answer me honestly and state you believe that if a straight man had committed the alleged sexual crimes against a number of women in Ireland and was a few months later making jokes about it on stage in a public venue it would be received as this has been?

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Who said that? I'm not 100% sure you have quoted the correct person.

You said this?

Completely agree, it would rightly be viewed far more seriously if he had done it to a woman. Thankfully it was grown men.

Red_Wake

ButtersSuki wrote: »

kunst nugget wrote: »

The 'one rule for straight men…' line always comes across as playing the victim card imo.

I also can't see anyone on here supporting him in the relation to his appearance at the George apart from a misguided attempt at trying to equate what he did with Jimmy Carr's indiscretions with the taxman. Tbh, most people have moved on and forgotten about him so the reality is that when he's not in the public eye, no one really gives a shít about him.

I'm sorry - is your opinion considered fact now? Genuine question.

Others are entitled to their opinion too you know, even it it's different to yours (who'd have thought?). I explained the context in what I said in my post and it was not as you have alluded, yet you're continuing to bang this drum.

Can you answer me honestly and state you believe that if a straight man had committed the alleged sexual crimes against a number of women in Ireland and was a few months later making jokes about it on stage in a public venue it would be received as this has been?

Maybe if he'd reformed himself by cutting down on cigarettes and booze.:angel:

kunst nugget wrote: »

You said this?

I know what I said. You said someone claimed that what Porter did was "alright". Were you accusing me of saying it?? I apologise if I've go that wrong - I haven't read every single post here.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm sorry - is your opinion considered fact now? Genuine question.

No, it's my opinion. That's why I said in my opinion at the end.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Others are entitled to their opinion too you know, even it it's different to yours (who'd have thought?).

I never said they weren't?

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I explained the context in what I said in my post and it was not as you have alluded, yet you're continuing to bang this drum.

The 'one rule for straight men…' line is a tired cliche at this stage that always comes across as self pitying imo (remember this is just my opinion).

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Can you answer me honestly and state you believe that if a straight man had committed the alleged sexual crimes against a number of women in Ireland and was a few months later making jokes about it on stage in a public venue it would be received as this has been?

I don't see any positive reception of it on here, do you. I must be missing something in the posting that's going on here.

If we are to use the Belfast trial as a guide to how it would be different if it was women being assaulted, there'd be a couple of posters on here calling the people that said they were assaulted liars who were probably desperate to get in Porter's pants and then regretted it.

Lux23

If Porter was up on the stage in the George yesterday making jokes about putting his hands down the pants of his victims, then that is disgusting. Appalled that the George would do that. I've only been there a few times, so they wouldn't exactly be losing much money but I doubt I will be giving them my custom again.

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I know what I said. You said someone claimed that what Porter did was "alright". Were you accusing me of saying it?? I apologise if I've go that wrong - I haven't read every single post here.

are you saying that a man will always be less of a victim than a woman in the same scenario?

what about the psychological aspect of a man being made feel like 'less of a man' because he's being socially dominated by another man , as well as being sexually assaulted.

Was anyone in the George last night? What was the reaction from the crowd?

Effects

Mossy Monk wrote: »

even though the two rugby players you mention were cleared of the charge?

Cleared of rape. Still used misogynistic language when talking about women and treated them very badly.

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

are you saying that a man will always be less of a victim than a woman in the same scenario?

what about the psychological aspect of a man being made feel like 'less of a man' because he's being socially dominated by another man , as well as being sexually assaulted.

Do you think the "victims" of the moron Porter went home and cried themselves to sleep? They continued socialising with him that very night and further nights in question.

I have a friend who was victim of an actual sexual assault. A very high profile attack. It destroyed her for a long time. She once texted me, almost six months to the day after it had happened, and said words to the effect of "Progress: I slept without the full lights on last night for the first time!"

She was a long time rebuilding her life. It effected her whole family and still does. Her father and brothers refused to let her out of their sight in the weeks and months afterward, this led to conflict and stress within the family home as you can imagine. In fact, she confided in me not because I'm some kind of Dr Phil type, but because it turned out I was her only male friend or family member who could stand to talk to her without turning into a blubbering mess (although I came close!).

Thankfully she is fine now and has since married a lovely bloke.

Genuine question: What effect (lasting or otherwise) do you think the lads who had their c*cks grabbed - and their families - have experienced?

I object to these guys seeking - and being offered - similar sympathies to the victims of real sexual assaults. Their motives for announcing their "ordeal" on social media were questionable to say the least.

I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it: If you're the victim of a crime, or feel you have been the victim of a crime - go to the Gardai, not Twitter.

kunst nugget wrote: »

No, it's my opinion. That's why I said in my opinion at the end.

I never said they weren't?

The 'one rule for straight men…' line is a tired cliche at this stage that always comes across as self pitying imo (remember this is just my opinion).

I don't see any positive reception of it on here, do you. I must be missing something in the posting that's going on here.

If we are to use the Belfast trial as a guide to how it would be different if it was women being assaulted, there'd be a couple of posters on here calling the people that said they were assaulted liars who were probably desperate to get in Porter's pants and then regretted it.

Where to start.....?

One by one:

You said "always". Even when I explained that's not what I was saying or implying
No, you never said it, but your tone implies that you're right and anyone with a different opinion is wrong - even if they state that's not what they said (see my posts and the previous bullet point for further evidence of same)
I didn't say there was any positive reception of it on here. What I was referring to was the likely outrage there would be if the hypothetical situation I outlined and it was a straight man making jokes about alleged sexual assaults whilst investigations were still ongoing in those cases had come to pass
I actually have no idea what your last comment is about

Btw, you still haven't answered my question re. the hypothetical question I posed.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Btw, you still haven't answered my question re. the hypothetical question I posed.

I tried to use the Belfast thread as a way of answering what would happen in the hypothetical situation.

There most likely be hysterical reaction on both sides - considering he's not been charged of anything, there be a lot of people supporting both sides of the argument most likely. People would be looking for him to be hung from the rafters while others would be saying the victims were most likely liars and that he was just being a lad.

Is that what you want for this thread?

Mossy Monk

Effects wrote: »

Cleared of rape.

I'm sure you will get over it at some stage.

gmisk

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Do you think the "victims" of the moron Porter went home and cried themselves to sleep? They continued socialising with him that very night and further nights in question.

I have a friend who was victim of an actual sexual assault. A very high profile attack. It destroyed her for a long time. She once texted me, almost six months to the day after it had happened, and said words to the effect of "Progress: I slept without the full lights on last night for the first time!"

She was a long time rebuilding her life. It effected her whole family and still does. Her father and brothers refused to let her out of their sight in the weeks and months afterward, this led to conflict and stress within the family home as you can imagine. In fact, she confided in me not because I'm some kind of Dr Phil type, but because it turned out I was her only male friend or family member who could stand to talk to her without turning into a blubbering mess (although I came close!).

Thankfully she is fine now and has since married a lovely bloke.

Genuine question: What effect (lasting or otherwise) do you think the lads who had their c*cks grabbed - and their families - have experienced?

I object to these guys seeking - and being offered - similar sympathies to the victims of real sexual assaults. Their motives for announcing their "ordeal" on social media were questionable to say the least.

I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it: If you're the victim of a crime, or feel you have been the victim of a crime - go to the Gardai, not Twitter.

I agree there are degrees of severity when it comes to things like this but I dont think there is any need to put victims in quotation marks, its not as if Al Porter has denied most of the allegations, they were down to his flamboyant attitude or some such sh#te!

How would you feel if a someone went up to you and stuck their hands down your trousers?

People deal with things in very different ways, men in general I think are a lot less likely to open up and talk to someone or go to the gardai.

I can remember an incident myself at a concert with a random much larger man than me sticking his hands down my trousers, just because I dont go to the Gardai or tweet about it, does that mean it hasnt effected me? Of course it f#cking has!

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Do you think the "victims" of the moron Porter went home and cried themselves to sleep? They continued socialising with him that very night and further nights in question.

I have a friend who was victim of an actual sexual assault. A very high profile attack. It destroyed her for a long time. She once texted me, almost six months to the day after it had happened, and said words to the effect of "Progress: I slept without the full lights on last night for the first time!"

She was a long time rebuilding her life. It effected her whole family and still does. Her father and brothers refused to let her out of their sight in the weeks and months afterward, this led to conflict and stress within the family home as you can imagine. In fact, she confided in me not because I'm some kind of Dr Phil type, but because it turned out I was her only male friend or family member who could stand to talk to her without turning into a blubbering mess (although I came close!).

Thankfully she is fine now and has since married a lovely bloke.

Genuine question: What effect (lasting or otherwise) do you think the lads who had their c*cks grabbed - and their families - have experienced?

I object to these guys seeking - and being offered - similar sympathies to the victims of real sexual assaults. Their motives for announcing their "ordeal" on social media were questionable to say the least.

I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it: If you're the victim of a crime, or feel you have been the victim of a crime - go to the Gardai, not Twitter.

You didnt really answer my question tho, its a yes or no answer.

what happened to your friend is horrible. I dont know how Al's victims felt, but that doesnt excuse his behaviour. What about the guys who stayed silent, we dont know how they felt afterwards

Ive seen women make accusations on twitter too, and they didnt go to the gardai.

Theres a high profile comedy promoter in the west of Ireland that has accusations against him for a while now, no mention of any investigations into the allegations. No comedians are speaking up about it. I saw him mentioned in a post recently on a feminist page on Facebook, I was checking for updates on the 'story'.

gmisk wrote: »

I agree there are degrees of severity when it comes to things like this but I dont think there is any need to put victims in quotation marks, its not as if Al Porter has denied most of the allegations, they were down to his flamboyant attitude or some such sh#te!

How would you feel if a someone went up to you and stuck their hands down your trousers?

People deal with things in very different ways, men in general I think are a lot less likely to open up and talk to someone or go to the gardai.

I honestly think we should close this thread now. We have finally seen the light.

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

You didnt really answer my question tho, its a yes or no answer.

Sorry, can you ask it again? I genuinely missed it.

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

Ive seen women make accusations on twitter too, and they didnt go to the gardai.

Equally wrong. I view any such "accusations" with, I wouldn't say disdain, but something slightly milder to disdain! (someone gimme a word)

EDIT: Suspicion! That's the word I wanted...

kunst nugget wrote: »

I tried to use the Belfast thread as a way of answering what would happen in the hypothetical situation.

There most likely be hysterical reaction on both sides - considering he's not been charged of anything, there be a lot of people supporting both sides of the argument most likely. People would be looking for him to be hung from the rafters while others would be saying the victims were most likely liars and that he was just being a lad.

Is that what you want for this thread?

And you still haven't answered it.