erica74 wrote: » I'm sorry but that is not the impression I have gotten from the contributors to this thread. I'm moving slightly away from the trial itself (I agree 100% with the verdict of the jury in that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute) and moreso to the actual concept of consent. It may be "off topic" but a trial like this brings about these sort of discussions.
seamus wrote: » Given that 65% of victims (according to the rape crisis network) don't report sexual violence to the Gardai, there's your general ballpark figure of the number of people wandering around blissfully unaware that they may have raped someone. You're conflating two very different things though. It's easy to know when you've killed someone. One minute they're standing in front of you, the next they're dead, and you did it. Consent, not so straightforward.
upandcumming wrote: » I believe that consent can be removed during, but can it be removed the following day for example?
kylith wrote: Would you behave in the same manner with a total stranger as you do with your wife, or would you take the approx 2 seconds to day ‘do you want to’?
....... wrote: » This post has been deleted.
joe40 wrote: » Personal responsibility is one thing but a young woman should still be to go to house with someone, engage in "sexual behaviour" but still have the right to stop at any stage or not go further than they are happy with. I was young many years ago and it was common enough to go back to a house even to a bed with someone but full sexual intercourse was never expected as a right in those circumstances.
Mr.H wrote: » I don't know if I have ever asked to be honest. I do know however any of my sexual partners in the past have either been great actors or have been very into it. I mean FFS its not hard to tell if someone is into it. Let me ask you this. Have you ever asked a stranger if you could kiss them or did you just go for it?
Rape can be an ambiguous crime. Not like murder or theft. Sometimes the person who was raped doesnt realise they were raped, sometimes the rapist doesnt realise they were raping someone, sometimes one party holds one belief and the other the other.
Mr.H wrote: » I think it's ridiculous to expect schools to sp what you are too frightened or lazy today do. A great piece of advice I will be passing to my future kids. It doesn't matter the gender or sexual orientation. When you go out day or night you need to be careful. Just keep your eyes open and be aware of your surroundings. Make good judgement calls. Be careful the message you send with what you wear. Yes wearing a top that shows your tits and shorts that show ass cheeks is going to attract attention. We all like to get attention from the opposite sex but there is obviously good and bad attention. If you dress like a scum bag you will be treated like one. If you dress like a homeless person you will be treated like one and of course If you dress like a stripper again you will be treated like one. It sucks but that's the way the world works. Dressing in a sexy way doesn't mean you are asking for it of course. The good people will respect that. It's the wrong ones that will also give you attention that you need to be careful of. So yes what you wear is important and does matter. Who your friends are also matters. The wrong type of people defines you in the wrong way. The way you act and talk will also define you. Be respectful of others and learn to trust. But most of all trust and respect yourself. I hope my daughter meets am amazing guy. But I hope she takes her time and trusts him before putting herself in a situation that needs trust. The same for my future son. All decisions have consequences. What you wear who you talk to and going home with strangers. You are only a victim of you put yourself in stupid situations. Afterall you wouldn't let your caveman child play with a trex would you?
So we have plenty on both sides, hence consent classes arent some silver bullet.
Appledreams15 wrote: So if I see a girl in a swimsuit in my local swimming pool, I can go up to her and touch her?
RoboRat wrote: » I don't think anybody thinks they are a silver bullet. They will however clear up some of the possible blurred boundaries such as if a woman is drunk/ asleep that it's not OK to do what you like, irrespective of the fact that you may be in a relationship with them. If a woman willingly goes to your room that you are guaranteed sex. That is she agrees to sex with a condom, that you can go without. If you are married that you have sex on tap and so on so forth. Personally and open an frank discussion with young people about what is right and wrong is a good idea as there are a lot of bad parents out there so we cannot take it as a given that they are learning this at home.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The proper analogy is the passenger hopped into a car with a random stranger and didn't check whether they had been drinking because they themselves were drunk. Run the analogy from there.
ShowMeTheCash wrote: » Not a legal argument, sex is either consensual or non-consensual there is no default. Again legally the DPP needs to prove a crime so the DPP needs to prove the sex was non-consensual. Sex is not about one person talking something from the other, it is an act by two consenting adults. You cannot consent to theft... Same way you cannot consent to assault... I could come to your party punch you in the face then argue you asked me to punch you in the face... But the DPP generally have a much better time proving theft or assault as consenting to it is not something that can happen. The danger that you cannot seem to see is it sets a president that someone needs to prove their innocent opposed to the DPP proving their guilt.
erica74 wrote: » It can sometimes be days, weeks, months, even years, before a person realises they have been raped.
....... wrote: » Id wager plenty of them dont. The common belief is that rapists jump out of bushes and rape a screaming fighting woman. The reality is that many rapes happen silently, most rapes happen with people who know each other and not strangers and in many cases alcohol is involved and blurs the lines for everyone. A very brief roam around Personal Issues on boards.ie will show you many posts from women who wonder if they were in fact raped at all (and generally the responses are pretty evenly split). Rape can be an ambiguous crime. Not like murder or theft. Sometimes the person who was raped doesnt realise they were raped, sometimes the rapist doesnt realise they were raping someone, sometimes one party holds one belief and the other the other. if you havent already watched it I strongly recommend the documentary Raw Deal: A Question of Consent.
Mr.H wrote: » Try reading that post again before saying something ridiculous
Appledreams15 wrote: » Rape is very much 'one person taking something from the other' It is a power play. It is one person taking something from the other. My rapist walked past me and a pub, slowed down and smirked at me. Another women recounted her rape story to me, and that she recounted the exact same thing afterwards chilled me. That the man slowly walked past her (this time in church) slowed down and smirked at her. They know that they have hurt you. I moved out of that town. She stopped going to church.
QuietMan2010 wrote: » If the passenger was drunk when she hopped into the car, then she was "too drunk to consent" to be carried in it. She was not responsible for her choice or action, nor any consequences arising.
kylith wrote: Yes, I would usually have asked.
Appledreams15 wrote: » He said if a girl wears a skimpy outfit, it is her fault for attracting unwanted sexual attention, yes? So I said, using that logic, what about normal sporty instances where girls wear skimpy clothing, eg swimming. By his logic I am allowed to go up and harrass them and touch them yes? They are wearing skimpy clothing, hey asked for it. # skimpy clothing argument is bullsh£t.
