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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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dudara

irishrebe wrote: »

It's quite hard to tell the difference at this point, to be honest with ya.

Look for the newly registered poster who is picking up the argument where the other one left off. It’s fairly obvious to be honest.

Mods and Admins are having to spend a lot of time cleaning up because posters keep replying and engaging. Ignore and report to mods please.

Silentcorner

Strazdas wrote: »

The protests weren't just about the trial verdict but all aspects of the nine week week trial and the general issue of consent. i wouldn't necessarily agree with much of the things they are protesting about but it's definitely not just a simple 'wrong verdict' protest (their banners and placards had quite a few different slogans and messages on them from what I could see).

The 'I believe her' one could be interpreted as being aimed for example at those who called the woman a liar and a troublemaker rather than at the actual verdict.

The exposure this trial has received is very distasteful .... it hasn't helped...

I am surprised at the conduct of media outlets since last wednesday in particular, and watch how they formulate new ways to regurgitating old news over and over again...is in unfair in my opinion...

This case couldn't have come at a worse time for the 4 lads involved...

I hope the 4 lads all get to resume their careers...it is only fair...

thebaz

Strazdas wrote: »

The protests weren't just about the trial verdict but all aspects of the nine week week trial and the general issue of consent. i wouldn't necessarily agree with much of the things they are protesting about but it's definitely not just a simple 'wrong verdict' protest (their banners and placards had quite a few different slogans and messages on them from what I could see).

The 'I believe her' one could be interpreted as being aimed for example at those who called the woman a liar and a troublemaker rather than at the actual verdict.

fair eneogh , but I do hope the next time an over lenient sentence is passed in the Republic to an actual convicted rapist , that a similar protest takes place - just hope all this anger for this particular case is not being politically masterminded by the extreme left , cause the rugby lads are deemed privilleged , perhaps they are not - I really dont know.

RuMan

Strazdas wrote: »

The protests weren't just about the trial verdict but all aspects of the nine week week trial and the general issue of consent. i wouldn't necessarily agree with much of the things they are protesting about but it's definitely not just a simple 'wrong verdict' protest (their banners and placards had quite a few different slogans and messages on them from what I could see).

The 'I believe her' one could be interpreted as being aimed for example at those who called the woman a liar and a troublemaker rather than at the actual verdict.

Havent a clue what the protests are about and i doubt the protesters do either.
I did note 2 serial protesting politicians involvment however. Their involvment alone suggests its an execrise in virtue signalling.
Personally i believe in due process and respect a courts verdict. The hard left clearly dont.

Faugheen

RuMan wrote: »

Havent a clue what the protests are about and i doubt the protesters do either.
I did note 2 serial protesting politicians involvment however. Their involvment alone suggests its an execrise in virtue signalling.
Personally i believe in due process and respect a courts verdict. The hard left clearly dont.

Believe it or not, a lot of them seem to be calling for better education around consent.

When you have people here saying they can perform a sex act on someone when they're sleeping because they're in the bed, I think they might have a point.

the_pen_turner

Faugheen wrote: »

Believe it or not, a lot of them seem to be calling for better education around consent.

When you have people here saying they can perform a sex act on someone when they're sleeping because they're in the bed, I think they might have a point.

but are they calling for more education for all or for education for men on not to rape

Rubberchikken

Whatever about the two with lesser charges getting back to employment, i cant see the other two playing rugby in this country again.
Sponsors arent going to be happy to be connected to behaviour these two were charged with.
Even abroad migjt be difficult. If only people, male and female, actually thought things through..

Achasanai

Faugheen wrote: »

Believe it or not, a lot of them seem to be calling for better education around consent.

When you have people here saying they can perform a sex act on someone when they're sleeping because they're in the bed, I think they might have a point.

Yeah, this thread has been a real eye-opener with regards to how differently people view 'consent' than my personal experience. The same goes for the text messages that the four guys sent.

I would have previously been a bit dubious on the idea of 'consent classes', but this thread - and the messages that those guys were sending around - would make me rethink this.

Flipper22

Faugheen wrote: »

Nope, it's written in law. You can not perform a sex act on someone when they are sleeping.

As I have said, some couples enjoy that. It doesn't make it legal.

No, read the act.

You cannot CONSENT when you're asleep. That's obvious. Equally it doesn't preclude someone from consenting before they fall asleep.

RuMan

Faugheen wrote: »

Believe it or not, a lot of them seem to be calling for better education around consent.

When you have people here saying they can perform a sex act on someone when they're sleeping because they're in the bed, I think they might have a point.

So you're saying a consent class will prevent rapists raping?

Could we roll that logic out to perpetrators of other crimes or is it just a rape thing?

YFlyer

Faugheen wrote: »

In this case, both defendants and complainant didn't feel they were that drunk that they couldn't consent, as they have admitted.

Why were there marches about giving consent?

irishrebe

RuMan wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Believe it or not, a lot of them seem to be calling for better education around consent.

When you have people here saying they can perform a sex act on someone when they're sleeping because they're in the bed, I think they might have a point.

So you're saying a consent class will prevent rapists raping?

Could we roll that logic out to perpetrators of other crimes or is it just a rape thing?

If rapists realised that they were actually committing rape, that might be a start.

Faugheen

the_pen_turner wrote: »

but are they calling for more education for all or for education for men on not to rape

Of course you have extremists saying just for men.

But in general, it's being linked to how poorly sex education is taught here (which it is) and that the issues surrounding consent, homophobia and what have you should be incorporated properly.

I was chatting with my mates about the trial and the aftermath (media, protests) a couple of days ago, and one thing we agreed on was that there wasn't even one iota of education surrounding consent until we got to college.

Ulysses Gaze

RuMan wrote: »

Best of luck, maybe u should move on with ur life.

Trudeau talks a lot about "equality" for a mans whose success is primarily down to who his daddy was.
Hopefully one day the gay son of immigrants might lead canada.

Trudeau says a lot of things about equality and women's rights....and then sells $12 billion in arms to the Saudi's. The biggest pack of ****ing degenerates and supporters of terrorism on the planet.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/13/canadian-government-lied-over-12bn-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia

Flipper22

Strazdas wrote: »

The protests weren't just about the trial verdict but all aspects of the nine week week trial and the general issue of consent. i wouldn't necessarily agree with much of the things they are protesting about but it's definitely not just a simple 'wrong verdict' protest (their banners and placards had quite a few different slogans and messages on them from what I could see).

The 'I believe her' one could be interpreted as being aimed for example at those who called the woman a liar and a troublemaker rather than at the actual verdict.

Expressing an active belief in her story can only be interpreted in one way.

If you believe her, then she was raped. Therefore they 'got away with it'

Bob_Marley

RuMan wrote: »

So you're saying a consent class will prevent rapists raping?

Not in a billion years will it, but that's not it's true purpose.

It's to keep the feminist boot on every young man's neck, and to ensure, along with many other measures, that the next generation of men will totally be de balled and licking women's boots.

RuMan

irishrebe wrote: »

If rapists realised that they were actually committing rape, that might be a start.

Ok. I'd view rapists as criminals who mostly coudnt care less about the law

Faugheen

Flipper22 wrote: »

No, read the act.

You cannot CONSENT when you're asleep. That's obvious. Equally it doesn't preclude someone from consenting before they fall asleep.

I honestly don't know the full ins and outs about that one.

Having said that, nobody is suggesting that whatsoever. They're saying that's it's ok to do because they're in your bed, which is wrong.

bloodless_coup

If men should attend consent classes, perhaps there should be classes for women on how to have more respect for themselves in certain scenarios.

irishrebe

RuMan wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

If rapists realised that they were actually committing rape, that might be a start.

Ok. I'd view rapists as criminals who mostly coudnt care less about the law

And that's the entire problem.

the_pen_turner

Faugheen wrote: »

Of course you have extremists saying just for men.

But in general, it's being linked to how poorly sex education is taught here (which it is) and that the issues surrounding consent, homophobia and what have you should be incorporated properly.

I was chatting with my mates about the trial and the aftermath (media, protests) a couple of days ago, and one thing we agreed on was that there wasn't even one iota of education surrounding consent until we got to college.

i would agree but its the extreemists that are protesting. they have banners saying all men are trash

Silentcorner

Faugheen wrote: »

Of course you have extremists saying just for men.

But in general, it's being linked to how poorly sex education is taught here (which it is) and that the issues surrounding consent, homophobia and what have you should be incorporated properly.

I was chatting with my mates about the trial and the aftermath (media, protests) a couple of days ago, and one thing we agreed on was that there wasn't even one iota of education surrounding consent until we got to college.

It needs to be taught to both genders...that way if it ever goes to court no one can plead ignorance...

I wouldn't have thought it were necessary either until a few months ago, the meetoo movement which I would have dismissed as hyperbole at the time (largely because it involved female actors working in the flesh business in Holywood albeit with some exceptions)...and in particular a few examples, demonstrated that there is a huge disparity when it comes to consent....witnessed on this thread....

We are heading for an age where I believe we will be challenged with more and more cases like this one...and unfortunately more false allegations also...

Its all well and good waiting until college, but not every one goes to college, very very few go to consent classes...

RuMan

irishrebe wrote: »

And that's the entire problem.

Fair enough. Consent seems clear cut to me.

Flipper22

Faugheen wrote: »

I honestly don't know the full ins and outs about that one.

Having said that, nobody is suggesting that whatsoever. They're saying that's it's ok to do because they're in your bed, which is wrong.

OK. I do and have explained it.

Was just responding to what you wrote, not what others wrote

Faugheen

Silentcorner wrote: »

It needs to be taught to both genders...that way if it ever goes to court no one can plead ignorance...

I wouldn't have thought it were necessary either until a few months ago, the meetoo movement which I would have dismissed as hyperbole at the time (largely because it involved female actors working in the flesh business in Holywood albeit with some exceptions)...and in particular a few examples, demonstrated that there is a huge disparity when it comes to consent....witnessed on this thread....

We are heading for an age where I believe we will be challenged with more and more cases like this one...and unfortunately more false allegations also...

Its all well and good waiting until college, but not every one goes to college, very very few go to consent classes...

Exactly the point I was making.

I don't know why people seem to think I said only men should be going to them. Everyone should be.

And it should be incorporated in schools. A lot of people are already sexually active when they get to college, if they get there.

Bob_Marley

RuMan wrote: »

Ok. I'd view rapists as criminals who mostly coudnt care less about the law

That's exactly it. Given the conviction rates, pathetic sentences, and hostel like prisons, there is zero deterrent to criminals in Ireland.

But instead of doing anything about the above, it's the perfect opportunity to instead provide all male children with feminist and anti male brainwashing.

[Deleted User]

Silentcorner wrote: »

We are heading for an age where I believe we will be challenged with more and more cases like this one...and unfortunately more false allegations also...

This is irrelevant to this thread but I reckon smartwatches, or something hidden, will be the dash-cams in the future.

People will wear them to prove their innocence.

freshpopcorn

We might also see certain kind of sexual acts banned/made illegal from my understanding of some people.

irishrebe

RuMan wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

And that's the entire problem.

Fair enough. Consent seems clear cut to me.

So you think everyone who commits it goes out with the intention of doing so? You don't think a huge proportion of the men convicted of rape genuinely thought they had done nothing wrong?

Dyr

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Whatever about the two with lesser charges getting back to employment, i cant see the other two playing rugby in this country again.
Sponsors arent going to be happy to be connected to behaviour these two were charged with.
Even abroad migjt be difficult. If only people, male and female, actually thought things through..

I reckon the worm is slowly turning there, it used to be easy for the media to spook sponsors by screaming racism and misogyny but businesses are starting to realise that their actual customers aren't too bothered by the medias scare tactics.