Bob_Marley wrote: » Do you really think that if your wife / sister / mother /daughter was raped, her underwear should be passed around in court while the accused's is not ? Would you have the big grin then ?
Silentcorner wrote: » My problem, as is obvious from previous posts...is the pitiful conviction rate for rape....we as a nation should be embarrassed by it...but of course that would involve a degree of self awareness...
suicide_circus wrote: » Solutions?
neonsofa wrote: » A person raped by someone they trust- an uncle, a friend, step father, family friend- what "personal responsibility" should they have taken? Not lived in the family home? A woman asleep in bed with her partner. He rapes her. She just shouldn't have slept? If she took personal responsibility she wouldn't have been raped according to that poster. A woman dragged into a house and raped by a stranger? "If she took personal responsibility" she wouldn't have been raped.. what exactly should she have done differently, not left her house that day? You cannot say that if you take personal responsibility you will not be raped. It was an utterly ridiculous comment and it deserved to be questioned.
Omackeral wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » Never heard of anyone being bullied? That's what these lads were doing, picking on lone women for a cheap laugh. Bit of fun at the end of their boring work day. I'd bet you a thousand euro not one of those lads would consider themselves a sex offender or even a bully. They would have said they were having a bit of banter and sure, we should have loosened up. You know, the same kind of minimising being done by people posting on this very thread. Disregarding of people's boundaries, insistence that it's all a bit of fun. No thought to how unpleasant and intimidating it must be for young girls to be roared at by grown men. I imagine now many of them will be fathers, that they wouldn't want their own daughters to be subject to that, but they weren't thinking of us as someone's daughter, a child, were they? They saw pretty (not even) teenage girls in school skirts and treated us like objects to be used for their own entertainment. When I think of kids of 11 and 12 being bullied I think of other kids doing it through name calling and other stuff like that. What you described is horrific. Grown men doing that to children. Pedophillic really. If I caught anyone doing that to a child, I’d up-end them. Twice as much if it were a friend or family member.
irishrebe wrote: » Never heard of anyone being bullied? That's what these lads were doing, picking on lone women for a cheap laugh. Bit of fun at the end of their boring work day. I'd bet you a thousand euro not one of those lads would consider themselves a sex offender or even a bully. They would have said they were having a bit of banter and sure, we should have loosened up. You know, the same kind of minimising being done by people posting on this very thread. Disregarding of people's boundaries, insistence that it's all a bit of fun. No thought to how unpleasant and intimidating it must be for young girls to be roared at by grown men. I imagine now many of them will be fathers, that they wouldn't want their own daughters to be subject to that, but they weren't thinking of us as someone's daughter, a child, were they? They saw pretty (not even) teenage girls in school skirts and treated us like objects to be used for their own entertainment.
NAGDEFI wrote: » I'm not referring to any of those type of rapes but the 'nightlife', threesome, one night stand type. And these are a considerable percentage of rapes. NOTHING can be done in the other instances you mentioned.
Fakediamond wrote: » Fann Linn wrote: » Okay, and what did your parents or teachers do? How would they know? children generally don’t tell an adult these things. And if that surprises you, ask the people who were raped by priests/swim coaches/ uncles/neighbours etc why they didn’t tell their parents or teachers.
Fann Linn wrote: » Okay, and what did your parents or teachers do?
neonsofa wrote: » Hence the original comment-"if you take personal responsibility you will not be raped" - being ridiculous,and quite rightly pointed out as such.
Silentcorner wrote: » ..what would you do to achieve a higher conviction rate of 15 out of 825 alleged rape incidents...or do you think that the rate is something we all should be proud of?
The Talking Bread wrote: » So what do you suggest that the jury should be instructed to do when making their decision, a decision based on the only evidence that they are privy to? Should they lower the "reasonable doubt" bar to "if you have a small bit of doubt, convict them" What are your suggestions? I ask this in discussion mode, not attacking your opinions. Moreso inquisitive as to them. (And to clarify again, the trial which we are discussing is in Northern Ireland, a different jurisdiction). Maybe use examples in this jurisdiction that back up your claims of misjustice in this regard.
optogirl wrote: » NAGDEFI wrote: » I'm not referring to any of those type of rapes but the 'nightlife', threesome, one night stand type. And these are a considerable percentage of rapes. NOTHING can be done in the other instances you mentioned. I'm sorry but I will not accept rape as a possible outcome of a night out drinking. Would you? In seconds we have people saying that women are man haters and suspicious of all men.....followed by a load of posts basically saying women should be suspicious of men.
NAGDEFI wrote: » I'm trying to relate it to the Belfast trial and the role of excessive alcohol consumption, especially on the male side. The other examples you gave are tragic and i wholeheartedly agree with you. Personal responsibility doesn't come into it. Maybe i joined the debate a little late and didn't read any more of that posters comments. I'd be telling my sons and daughters to be careful with alcohol, stay with good friends etc.
optogirl wrote: » I'm sorry but I will not accept rape as a possible outcome of a night out drinking. Would you? In seconds we have people saying that women are man haters and suspicious of all men.....followed by a load of posts basically saying women should be suspicious of men.
irishrebe wrote: » I honestly cannot believe that in 2018 we still have people asking why child victims of abuse didn't get adults involved. 'Why did you not tell anyone' is still the number 1 way to try to discredit a victim of abuse. Have people learned nothing from the countless scandals in Ireland and the rest of the world?
irishrebe wrote: » That's the thing though. Contrary to what some posters think, it's not easy to tell age. I'm aware that when I was 11, I didn't look 11 because I was so tall and had gone through puberty already (not that harassing older children/teenagers is OK either). I imagine these idiots were thinking we were in our mid teens, and some of the lads doing it were probably 19 or 20 years old. I like to think that as disgraceful as they were, they didn't realise that some of us they were harassing were as young as 11 or 12, but maybe they did know? Maybe they didn't care. I have no idea.
Silentcorner wrote: » I've already suggested a major one...allow a victim legal representation... Allowing an independent expert in Sexual Assault to explain how victims can react to assaults... Banning the parading of womens underwear in court...no reason not to allow the jury request if they feel it is neccessary.... How about you, any other suggestions to improve the deplorable conviction rate other than sticking our heads in the sand????
neonsofa wrote: » Stay with good friends. And if the "good friend" happens to rape her? Going by some posts if she happened to be drunk then she should have just taken more personal responsibility, but if she was sober then it's just tragic and personal responsibility doesn't come into it?
NAGDEFI wrote: » There's a night out drinking and being totally unaware of your actions and possibly getting detached from your friends for a female. For a male you may become more aggressive with drink. We'd all like to think we can drink to our hearts galore but drink and drugs lower inhibitions, cause memory loss etc. I'm conservative in my views but i'm not apportioning blame to women or men. In my opinion the day you wake up and can't remember the night before isn't good. For us all.
irishrebe wrote: » Some of the posters here are making men sound like monsters. We have to be on guard at all times. We can't go to a house with men at it without expecting them to rape us. What's wrong with people?
Worried Father wrote: » If you get drunk around strange men and go back their houses on your own, your chances of being raped go up. It's not rocket science.
Fann Linn wrote: » irishrebe wrote: » I honestly cannot believe that in 2018 we still have people asking why child victims of abuse didn't get adults involved. 'Why did you not tell anyone' is still the number 1 way to try to discredit a victim of abuse. Have people learned nothing from the countless scandals in Ireland and the rest of the world? I made that comment on foot of your post alleging lads shouting down at you, kids and others adjacent to your school almost on a daily basis. You made it appear so prevalent and common that I was just wondering what the other passer bys did considering all this whistling, noise, foul language, gesturing etc etc which you said happened almost on a regular basis for the entirety of your secondary school life. I for no minute thought you would have had to tell others as I had visions of you attending school adjacent to Hill 16 on All Ireland Sunday it was that bad. Sorry if I misread your post.
Bob_Marley wrote: » I don't know, but it's an excellent point, if those stats are true, there is something very seriously wrong with a justice system where 99.98 % of those who are suspected of committing rape in NI get off as not guilty.
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