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Pulling lambs

arctictree

Seem to be pulling a lot of lambs here. Today, I had a Hogget with bags out at 1pm. Left her until 6 and then pulled two lambs out of her. She was very tight and the lambs were big. A real effort to get the second one out. Am I intervening too early? They were presented normally she just was very tight. I have another one here now, same story.

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Farm365

arctictree wrote: »

Seem to be pulling a lot of lambs here. Today, I had a Hogget with bags out at 1pm. Left her until 6 and then pulled two lambs out of her. She was very tight and the lambs were big. A real effort to get the second one out. Am I intervening too early? They were presented normally she just was very tight. I have another one here now, same story.

Are they Texel ewes?

arctictree

Farm365 wrote: »

Are they Texel ewes?

Lleyns. A bit of texel (25%) in some of them.

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

Seem to be pulling a lot of lambs here. Today, I had a Hogget with bags out at 1pm. Left her until 6 and then pulled two lambs out of her. She was very tight and the lambs were big. A real effort to get the second one out. Am I intervening too early? They were presented normally she just was very tight. I have another one here now, same story.

We'd check them after an hour from the water bag coming to make sure they're presented right. and then go back after half an hour and lamb her. We find handling them like that triggers them to push and we generally find a big improvement after another half hour
Try to open her as much as you can with your hand, first time lambers will be tight, rub plenty of proper lubricant on the lambs as well. Some times the second lamb can be dry if the first one is hard lambed
When you go pull then you'll have done as much as you can to help him out.

arctictree

wrangler wrote: »

We'd check them after an hour from the water bag coming to make sure they're presented right. and then go back after half an hour and lamb her. We find handling them like that triggers them to push and we generally find a big improvement after another half hour
Try to open her as much as you can with your hand, first time lambers will be tight, rub plenty of proper lubricant on the lambs as well. Some times the second lamb can be dry if the first one is hard lambed
When you go pull then you'll have done as much as you can to help him out.

Thanks, I've had a check on the one that's lambing now and she's extremely tight. I'll leave her for an hour and check again...

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

Thanks, I've had a check on the one that's lambing now and she's extremely tight. I'll leave her for an hour and check again...

Did you reach the lamb, is he presented correct

arctictree

wrangler wrote: »

Did you reach the lamb, is he presented correct

Couldn't get to the lamb, she was too tight. Hopefully she'll have opened up a bit more in a while and we'll see where we are.

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

Couldn't get to the lamb, she was too tight. Hopefully she'll have opened up a bit more in a while and we'll see where we are.

Probably too early then.
We have big yearlings this year, so it's probably a bit easier than usual, I pulled twin lambs last night 5.5kg and 6kg,

Hard Knocks

Farm365 wrote: »

Are they Texel ewes?

What’s the problem with Telekom ewes?

razor8

Are the ewes on the lean side?

Leaner ewes sometimes don’t open up properly or else your breeding from a ram that has this undesired trait

arctictree

wrangler wrote: »

Probably too early then.
We have big yearlings this year, so it's probably a bit easier than usual, I pulled twin lambs last night 5.5kg and 6kg,

Checked her again. She's still really tight. I think ive done a bit of damage trying to get in as my hand is covered in fresh blood. Seems to be a really thin tight ring opening just in front of the lamb. Don't want to force this as it feels like it could tear easily. I'll leave her for a few more hours and see how she gets on.

charolais0153

arctictree wrote: »

Checked her again. She's still really tight. I think ive done a bit of damage trying to get in as my hand is covered in fresh blood. Seems to be a really thin tight ring opening just in front of the lamb. Don't want to force this as it feels like it could tear easily. I'll leave her for a few more hours and see how she gets on.

Ringwomb. Give 2ml of oxytocin and calcium. Try and dilate her if you can. He has to come out sometime

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ringwomb. Give 2ml of oxytocin and calcium. Try and dilate her if you can. He has to come out sometime

I would've recommended the vet considering artictrees level of experience, hope it went alright for him.
Had to go out last night after to help a neighbour

arctictree

wrangler wrote: »

I would've recommended the vet considering artictrees level of experience, hope it went alright for him.
Had to go out last night after to help a neighbour

Well I let her out in the field this morning and she's grazing away. Not sure what's up with her. Maybe she wasn't ready to lamb?

wrangler

arctictree wrote: »

Well I let her out in the field this morning and she's grazing away. Not sure what's up with her. Maybe she wasn't ready to lamb?

If she has put out the waterbag, she's lambing
Stopping forcing after putting out the waterbag would be symptomatic of 'ringwomb'
All you can do is do your best
some reading for ya, Even if she's not a ringwomb you'll definitely experience one sometime

True' ringwomb
With true ringwomb, the ewe may have been straining for hours with no progress being made, although usually the membranes protrude from the vulva. Sometimes there is no real sign of straining. On manual examination, only one or two fingers can be passed through the cervix into the womb, even though the two forefeet and head of the lamb may be presented quite normally just inside the cervix. The outside edge of the cervix usually feels hard and unyielding, almost like an extended rubber ring – hence the name 'ringwomb‛.

The cervix is made up of muscles pursed together round the uterine entrance. In normal labour, these muscles gradually relax and open up when pressure is exerted by the fluid-filled sac and the lamb from inside. This pressure is caused by the contractions of the muscles of the uterine wall pushing the head of the lamb against the muscles at the top of the cervix.

In 'true' ringwomb, there is no treatment other than a Caesarean operation to save the ewe and lambs, or euthanasia of the ewe to save the lambs. Caesareans are usually successful. If no action is taken, the lamb eventually dies when its placenta separates from the uterine wall and its blood supply is cut off. In a few cases the ewe aborts the rotten lamb and then she requires veterinary treatment or she will develop septicaemia (blood poisoning) and die.

The cause of 'true' ringwomb is not known for certain, but some cases may have a genetic component, and some cases may be the result of scarring of the cervix as a result of a previous traumatic lambing. Some farms certainly experience more cases than others. It is wise to cull any ewes that have survived the condition.

'False' ringwomb
Many cases of 'false' ringwomb are likely to be the result of premature intervention by the shepherd. It takes time (up to an hour) for the cervix to dilate fully during the lambing process. Earlier (premature) interference may mean that further dilation doesn't proceed normally. Some cases of false ringwomb may result when the lamb is in the wrong position for delivery so that the head and forefeet don't exert normal pressure on the cervix to open it.

If the cervix in not fully open, and if it is not scarred, an experienced shepherd or a veterinarian can, by gentle stretching of the cervix using the bunched fingers of a clean lubricated hand for up to 45 minutes, gradually ease it open sufficiently to allow delivery. However the lamb(s) may be weak.

Do not attempt to pull the lamb out through a cervix that is only partly open, even if you can put a few fingers through and feel a lamb's feet or nose. If the cervix is not fully relaxed you could cause fatal injuries to the ewe leading to peritonitis and prolapse of the uterus/vagina.

In true ringwomb and in many cases of false ringwomb, the best solution for the lifestyle farmer is to call your vet. Your vet may decide that a Caesarean is needed to save the ewe and lambs. Alternatively the ewe could be euthanased and the lambs salvaged immediately for fostering.

Tips for manual examination of the birth canal

Before doing a manual examination of the birth canal, trim off any dags or dirty wool around the back end of the ewe.
Make sure your nails are short with no jagged edges, remove rings, watches and bracelets and wash your hands thoroughly in warm soapy water.
Wear surgical gloves if possible.
It can help to put the ewe on the back of a truck or trailer deck so that her back end is at an easier height for any manipulations that are required and there will be less temptation to rush.
Bunch your fingers and insert your hand carefully into the vagina.
Coat your hand and arm with plenty of lubricant (such as veterinary lubricant or LUX soap flakes and warm water). Pass one or two fingers through the partly open cervix and exert gentle pressure on the inside – particularly at the top – repeatedly relubricating or filling the vagina and cervix with lubricant or soap flakes and warm water. Work away quietly and gently for up to half an hour or even longer if progress is being made. Many cervixes eventually relax and open as a result of this simple internal gentle digital pressure. Keep moving your fingers round the inner ring and stop each time the ewe strains. If no progress is made after 30 minutes, then consider euthanasia of the ewe or call your vet for a Caesarean section.
Ringwomb can also occur in goats but it seems that 'true' ringwomb is much less common in goats than in sheep but 'false' ringwomb may still be a problem as in sheep.

FarmerDougal

Had 7 hoggets ringed here, all sectioned, putting it down to bad luck

razor8

It’s not bad luck. More likely to do with a mineral issue imo

FarmerDougal

razor8 wrote: »

It’s not bad luck. More likely to do with a mineral issue imo

They had buckets with them for 3 weeks before going in, on a silage only diet for 3 weeks and then got an average of 0.7kg of 20% nut for at least a month which I presume is balanced with calcium minerals etc

razor8

Buckets are not enough imo. A cheap drench is much better

Bleating Lamb

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ringwomb. Give 2ml of oxytocin and calcium. Try and dilate her if you can. He has to come out sometime

Would agree to giving Calciject but Oxytocin actually stimulates the ewe to press abnormally which is not ideal if she has not opened yet....puts severe stress on both the ewe and the lamb.

farawaygrass

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Would agree to giving Calciject but Oxytocin actually stimulates the ewe to press abnormally which is not ideal if she has not opened yet....puts severe stress on both the ewe and the lamb.

Vet told me that the last day too. I thought it opens them up but he said no, it starts them pushing, so you want them opened first

White Clover

I reckon it's a mineral deficiency, most likely lack of selenium. Have a share of ewes here where there would be one leg back. Like wrangler, I'd check them an hour after water bag out and line them up correctly and let it to the ewe to lamb them then. They'd fire em out in a few minutes after that. Charollois lambs so they are easy lambed.

kk.man

I had a ewe bleeding after having her lambs and Vet told me to inject 2ml of Oxytocin. That closes her up fast he said.
It worked.

Lambman

Was under the impression oxytocin relaxes the muscles in that area that's why heifers/cows get it till stop them putting out calf bed after being stitched? Open till correction not 100%

Lambman

Lambman wrote: »

Was under the impression oxytocin relaxes the muscles in that area that's why heifers/cows get it till stop them putting out calf bed after a cesarean? Open till correction not 100%