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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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Comments

P_1

Orange Duck wrote: »

I think he's right to sue.

Would it be enforceable though? How many times has that hashtag been used at this stage? Surely no court would entertain a case against thousands of limited means, the majority in a different jurisdiction?

optogirl

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Noone is saying what they said was nice.

I'm a good person. Big proponent of Repeal, got out and helped campaign in MarRef, yadda yadda. I've said some awful things in my past, especially in jest with my friends. Some I wouldn't repeat, because I know they were awful, and I'm ashamed. There's conversations between me and my wife that would make her look guilty if I was found dead in the morning.

Taken as a snapshot of me, and judging my whole character on it? Then judging the whole of Ireland? Please.

Nobody is judging all men. Why is that the first place so many men jump to...'were not all pricks!'. WE KNOW. There is a problem with double standards for men and women, there is a problem with reporting of rape, there is a problem with convictions in these cases. There is a sick idea that nonsense like being from a good family, being a promising athlete or being of previously good character somehow lessens the behaviour. The amount of times we hear of some abuser getting a reduced sentence because his reputation was damaged. Give me a f***ing break.

It is weary making in the extreme. Anger ensues but nobody is saying all men are rapists. That is a false trope MEN routinely use to undermine women's anger.

Flipper22

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am not talking about the text messages per se. I am talking about the fact that given the fact that once accused, he was guilty, in the #IBelieveHer mindset, even if they think he did rape her, generalising men on that basis is disgusting outlook.

Sure, I agree.

I'm just taking issue with people labelling him as some mysoginist without any evidence of that.

Franz Von Peppercorn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The level of malice being directed towards men on this thread is frightening. And yet they are the ones being accused of being disrespectful and dangerous.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

Not seeing it.

Laois_Man

irishrebe wrote: »

This is where most of the people posting on this thread are 100% missing the point. A lot of the women protesting and marching aren't specifically disagreeing with the result of the trial. They're sick of this kind of language and attitude and thinking. Would you say that referring to woman as sl*ts and talking about the tightness of their vagina is just harmless banter, or would you say it contributes to them being viewed as objects to be used and then 'thrown' home afterwards?

Do women when they get together, talk about their previous nights conquest in terms of the size of his dick or his stamina or his longevity or whatever?

Hollywood certainly portrays that they do. And nobody seems to complain about that!

But do they?

jr86

P_1 wrote: »

Would it be enforceable though? How many times has that hashtag been used at this stage? Surely no court would entertain a case against thousands of limited means, the majority in a different jurisdiction?

They obviously won't sue everyone (or even anyone)

It's scare-mongering, which has caused plenty of impressionable teenagers to take down defamatory stuff already

AOR will come out with a public apology at some stage and any public figure will steer clear of posting uninformed drivel now aswell

Come on, they're highly skilled and experienced legal practitioners they know well what they're doing

wexie

Laois_Man wrote: »

Do women when they get together, talk about their previous nights conquest in terms of the size of his dick or his stamina or his longevity or whatever?

Hollywood certainly portrays that they do. And nobody seems to complain about that!

But do they?

I couldn't vouch for that, I can tell you though about being told by a group of middle aged ladies about how they'd like to 'climb me like a tree' and 'ride me hard and put me away wet'....when I asked them how they'd react if they heard me saying the same thing about one of them or another younger girl the answer was : ah shure it's just a bit of banter....:rolleyes:

The Talking Bread

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not seeing it.

Give over.

See what you want to see.

AudreyHepburn

optogirl wrote: »

Nobody is judging all men. Why is that the first place so many men jump to...'were not all pricks!'. WE KNOW. There is a problem with double standards for men and women, there is a problem with reporting of rape, there is a problem with convictions in these cases. There is a sick idea that nonsense like being from a good family, being a promising athlete or being of previously good character somehow lessens the behaviour. The amount of times we hear of some abuser getting a reduced sentence because his reputation was damaged. Give me a f***ing break.

It is weary making in the extreme. Anger ensues but nobody is saying all men are rapists. That is a false trope MEN routinely use to undermine women's anger.

But an awful lot of women iare judging men as a whole. They have suggested men should attend consent classes as if they need to be taught how not to rape. They take issue with every woman related statement men make and assume that all men hate and disrespect women and only want one thing from them. They think it’s ok to judge a mans character from a few silly texts.Some have even suggested that Ireland is a dangerous place for women because we have men here.

It’s insane and frankly if that’s your mindset then you are part of the problem not the solution.

AudreyHepburn

Laois_Man wrote: »

Do women when they get together, talk about their previous nights conquest in terms of the size of his dick or his stamina or his longevity or whatever?

Hollywood certainly portrays that they do. And nobody seems to complain about that!

But do they?

Of course we do and any woman who tries to claim otherwise is a liar.

We women aren’t the innocent little flowers some would like pretend we are.

optogirl

Laois_Man wrote: »

Do women when they get together, talk about their previous nights conquest in terms of the size of his dick or his stamina or his longevity or whatever?

Hollywood certainly portrays that they do. And nobody seems to complain about that!

But do they?

No in my experience. You might now and again hear someone being unnecessarily crude but I would be uncomfortable with that.

AudreyHepburn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not seeing it.

You don’t want to see it would be a more accurate statement I think.

wexie

optogirl wrote: »

but I would be uncomfortable with that.

As would most men...

(just saying)

Laois_Man

optogirl wrote: »

No in my experience. You might now and again hear someone being unnecessarily crude but I would be uncomfortable with that.

Can you imagine if a movie came out with a poster like this, the other way around, where it was men looking up at a woman?

The absolute outrage there'd be!!

optogirl

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But an awful lot of women iare judging men as a whole. They have suggested men should attend consent classes as if they need to be taught how not to rape. They take issue with every woman related statement men make and assume that all men hate and disrespect women and only want one thing from them. They think it’s ok to judge a mans character from a few silly texts.Some have even suggested that Ireland is a dangerous place for women because we have men here.

It’s insane and frankly if that’s your mindset then you are part of the problem not the solution.

I think the dangerous place for women is more to do with the legal system, lack of support for victims of abuse and legislation. I have never heard anyone say that Ireland is a dangerous place because we have men here.

iamwhoiam

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course we do and any woman who tries to claim otherwise is a liar.

We women aren’t the innocent little flowers some would like pretend we are.

And any one claiming to speak for every single woman in Ireland is just being silly .You might and your circle might and those you speak with might .That doesn't mean anyone who doesn't and claims she doesn't is a liar .? One hand up here and I am not a liar .I have never spoken like that about any man

suicide_circus

I call on any and all the people on the #ibelieveher bandwagon to bring the evidence of these men's guilt to the attention of the PSNI without delay. I assume you have such evidence that was unavailable to the jury which then calls into question their verdict.

If you dont have any such evidence may I ask what the **** you think you are playing at?

optogirl

wexie wrote: »

I couldn't vouch for that, I can tell you though about being told by a group of middle aged ladies about how they'd like to 'climb me like a tree' and 'ride me hard and put me away wet'....when I asked them how they'd react if they heard me saying the same thing about one of them or another younger girl the answer was : ah shure it's just a bit of banter....:rolleyes:

That's rotten. Shame on those women.

whisky_galore

Bob_Marley wrote: »

There's no winners in the case, and the root cause yet again is the large quantities of alcohol taken by those involved.

The real winners are the legal representation, and the accompanying media circus more than happy to relate every detail. Agree about alcohol, all the 'rules' of consent go flying out the window straight away.

jr86

suicide_circus wrote: »

I call on any and all the people on the #ibelieveher bandwagon to bring the evidence of these men's guilt to the attention of the PSNI without delay. I assume you have such evidence that was unavailable to the jury which then calls into question their verdict.

If you dont have any such evidence may I ask what the **** you think you are playing at?

And in particular the rape charges against Irish Rugby Players Harrison and McIlroy

Tell me how

Laois_Man wrote: »

Can you imagine if a movie came out with a poster like this, the other way around, where it was men looking up at a woman?

The absolute outrage there'd be!!

Seriously?

Screen-Shot-2016-01-27-at-5.33.32-PM-e1453944962397.png

Don't think men can complain that we are the ones who suffer most from objectification.

[Deleted User]

irishrebe wrote: »

This is where most of the people posting on this thread are 100% missing the point. A lot of the women protesting and marching aren't specifically disagreeing with the result of the trial. They're sick of this kind of language and attitude and thinking. Would you say that referring to woman as sl*ts and talking about the tightness of their vagina is just harmless banter, or would you say it contributes to them being viewed as objects to be used and then 'thrown' home afterwards?

Your desperation knows no bounds. I "dropped" one of my kids to soccer this morning. Are you going to report me for child abuse?

Todd Gack

irishrebe wrote: »

But why is this even relevant? What difference does it make whether they use this language to describe their sisters and mothers or save it for 'sl*ts with loose vaginas'? Do you not agree it shows a worryingly misogynistic attitude?

The complainant described Dara Florence and her friends as "slutty", must be a misogynist so :rolleyes:

jr86

Basil3 wrote: »

Your desperation knows no bounds. I "dropped" one of my kids to soccer this morning. Are you going to report me for child abuse?

It's absolutely farcical these Whatsapp texts were ever released to the public. Some of the reaction to innocent phrases like "threw her home" is honestly disturbing

Bob_Marley

optogirl wrote: »

That's rotten. Shame on those women.

But apparently according to the latest socially acceptably opinion only men do this ?

It's high time time people stopped categorising and stereotyping people according to their sex. There are bad men and women out there, just like there are good men and women out there. Someone is not automatically good or bad because of what sex they are.

Sofiztikated

irishrebe wrote: »

This is where most of the people posting on this thread are 100% missing the point. A lot of the women protesting and marching aren't specifically disagreeing with the result of the trial. They're sick of this kind of language and attitude and thinking. Would you say that referring to woman as sl*ts and talking about the tightness of their vagina is just harmless banter, or would you say it contributes to them being viewed as objects to be used and then 'thrown' home afterwards?

First off, the thrown home thing. It's a common turn of phrase in Northern Ireland. Same way if you or I'd say "Would you drop me off/into town/wherever" we don't mean we are litter to be dropped wherever they pleased. Relax on that one.

Now, if I've used slut and the measure of the tightness of her fanny in conversation with my wife, again, am I a bad person? What if someone makes a joke about a mans car and the relation to his penis?

AudreyHepburn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And any one claiming to speak for every single woman in Ireland is just being silly .You might and your circle might and those you speak with might .That doesn't mean anyone who doesn't and claims she doesn't is a liar .? One hand up here and I am not a liar .I have never spoken like that about any man

You might not but I’d wager most of us have at some point and it wouldn’t have been in a malicious or man hating way. It would have been silly banter like PJ and his friends.

To bury your head in the sand and pretend we woman are all goodness and light is at best woefully naive.

irishrebe

Todd Gack wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

But why is this even relevant? What difference does it make whether they use this language to describe their sisters and mothers or save it for 'sl*ts with loose vaginas'? Do you not agree it shows a worryingly misogynistic attitude?

The complainant described Dara Florence and her friends as "slutty", must be a misogynist so :rolleyes:

You think women can't be misogynists?

irishrebe

jr86 wrote: »

Basil3 wrote: »

Your desperation knows no bounds. I "dropped" one of my kids to soccer this morning. Are you going to report me for child abuse?

It's absolutely farcical these Whatsapp texts were ever released to the public. Some of the reaction to innocent phrases like "threw her home" is honestly disturbing

And innocent phrases like 'any sluts around?', 'loose vagina', yeah, totally misconstrued.

optogirl

Todd Gack wrote: »

The complainant described Dara Florence and her friends as "slutty", must be a misogynist so :rolleyes:

Or at least the product of a society that still views men as top shaggers and the women they shag as sluts.