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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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The Talking Bread

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

J
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

christ on a bike.

rabid.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Oaklyn Early Fauna wrote: »

:-) You would be surprised, very surprised.

I'm not directing this specifically at you, honestly, but I do wonder how much life experience some people have when it comes to sex and all that goes with it.

Well I became asexual over a period of time. It happened gradually as the years went by, when interacting with men simply wasn't bringing any happiness.

I don't hate men - I just view them as irrelevant.

I'm not drawn to anyone any more, and this case reminded me why.

thebaz

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Everyone clear? Good.

Thats the thing no one is clear , and its causing a massive division , with exterem ranting on both side - no one knows for sure what happened that night , except the parties ther , if Jackson and the others were innocent they deserve to live a free life , if they were quilty , then they deserve appropriate punishment - if they were found guilty and the judge imposed lenient sentencing then I believe the public have every right to protest - judges here in Ireland have adminterstered lenient sentencing in the past , and thers been hardly any protesting - when i would have thought it would be totally justified - why is this ?

RuMan

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Do you know what the protest is about? Educate yourself honey. Assuming on the internet is the worst way that you can fail.

It is about the legal systems in both the republic and Northen Ireland failing women in rape cases.

Everyone clear? Good.

No.
What specifically are they unhappy with and what alternatives are they suggesting ?

Rodin

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

Just the same as how we look back at how we locked women up in magdelene laundries after they were raped, and we are shamed at that.

The women protesting are not protesting just at this case but at all the wider issues of misogynistic culture in Ireland.

Dolores o riordain has recently committed a suspected suicide after detailing years of sexual abuse she suffered in Ireland.
She is one voice of thousands.
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

The courts decided she wasn't raped.
In the eyes of the law those 4 men are innocent. How do you know she isn't a liar?

Hoboo

Franz Von Peppercorn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Do you know what the protest is about? Educate yourself honey. Assuming on the internet is the worst way that you can fail.

It is about the legal systems in both the republic and Northen Ireland failing women in rape cases.

Everyone clear? Good.

That’s fair enough but where is the London March? The march in Cardiff?

Northern Ireland doesn’t have a separate legal system from the U.K.

And Irish law is different. These marches are counter productive. I’m sympathetic to her - in particular I think the case was a horrible ordeal - but the haranguing the justice department of a separate legal entity makes no sense.

Fann Linn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

Just the same as how we look back at how we locked women up in magdelene laundries after they were raped, and we are shamed at that.

The women protesting are not protesting just at this case but at all the wider issues of misogynistic culture in Ireland.

Dolores o riordain has recently committed a suspected suicide after detailing years of sexual abuse she suffered in Ireland.
She is one voice of thousands.
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

You do know that not everyone in the Magdalene laundries were raped.

I hope you have the evidence to back up YOUR claim regarding Dolores O'Riordain.RIP.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Why is sentiment here so different to twitter?

Ulysses Gaze

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

Just the same as how we look back at how we locked women up in magdelene laundries after they were raped, and we are shamed at that.

The women protesting are not protesting just at this case but at all the wider issues of misogynistic culture in Ireland.

Dolores o riordain has recently committed a suspected suicide after detailing years of sexual abuse she suffered in Ireland.
She is one voice of thousands.
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

Women have recourse through the courts in rape cases in Ireland.

Wegian

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

You don't need to wait for the future, the future is now...

They are respected in the Ireland that I live in

They have recourse to the courts in Ireland and incidentally they also do in the other country this court case was held in as is evidenced by the prosecution bring a case on behalf of the complainant

They are free in the Ireland that I live in

One_Of_Shanks

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

The British justice system is a total mockery.

The Fab Four walk free, yet a professional YouTube sh1tposter (Count Dankula) has been found guilty of "gross offence" by posting a video of his girlfriend's pug dog raising his paw to "Sieg Heil" and will be sentenced on April 23rd.

sorry, just skimming the thread but God only knows what goes on in some people's minds.

Mrs Shuttleworth

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

sorry, just skimming the thread but God only knows what goes on in some people's minds.

And your point is?

RuMan

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

Just the same as how we look back at how we locked women up in magdelene laundries after they were raped, and we are shamed at that.

The women protesting are not protesting just at this case but at all the wider issues of misogynistic culture in Ireland.

Dolores o riordain has recently committed a suspected suicide after detailing years of sexual abuse she suffered in Ireland.
She is one voice of thousands.
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

Without wishing to diminish it Delores O'Riordans abuse it happened when she was a child so presumably 30 years ago. There are multiple accounts of boys suffering similar abuse, to portray that as some anti woman thing is false. It was child abuse.

What is "the misogninistic culture in ireland" I have no idea what this is ? Is it specific to Ireland ?

"to have recourse through the courts" They have that already. What are you proposing to change ?

Faugheen

Rodin wrote: »

The courts decided she wasn't raped.
In the eyes of the law those 4 men are innocent. How do you know she isn't a liar?

The courts didn't decide she wasn't raped ffs.

The jury can find the defendants not guilty but still believe the complainants story.

However, it's not enough to believe the story, there needs to be enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt, which there wasn't.

People need to stop spreading this absolute nonsense, bull**** and completely untrue statement that the courts system said she lied and that no crime took place.

irishman86

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

Just the same as how we look back at how we locked women up in magdelene laundries after they were raped, and we are shamed at that.

The women protesting are not protesting just at this case but at all the wider issues of misogynistic culture in Ireland.

Dolores o riordain has recently committed a suspected suicide after detailing years of sexual abuse she suffered in Ireland.
She is one voice of thousands.
I want women in the future in Ireland to be respected, to be safe. To have recourse through the courts. To be free

I hope someday you look back at the posts you have made here and realised how poisonous and inaccurate you have been
How people like you dont aid women in anyway and are just out to lie and create mass hysteria rather than find solutions to anything

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Wegian wrote: »

You don't need to wait for the future, the future is now...

They are respected in the Ireland that I live in

That's not entirely true, in fairness. A lot of people are defending the attitudes of the guys which, even if not guilty of rape, is seriously disrespectful (to say the least). And it's the kind of attitudes you'll get among lots of groups of guys going out on a Friday or Saturday night.

wexie

Appledreams15 wrote: »

One day men will look back and be shamed of how they treated women at this time.

I sure as hell won't....

And you wanna know why?

Cause I've nothing to be ashamed of...

And those men you're talking about that DO have reason to be ashamed?
They probably won't be ashamed.

Generalizing hogwash like you're spouting only serves to make you look like a nutbag and alienate those men who treat women (or people in general) well and with respect.

Rather than doing that you should be looking to get them onside and supporting your 'cause' (whatever the hell it might turn out to be).

And make no mistake about it, if any of the men here made statements as offensive and generalized about women as you do here about men you'd be falling over yourself to call them out over it.

irishman86

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Well I became asexual over a period of time. It happened gradually as the years went by, when interacting with men simply wasn't bringing any happiness.

I don't hate men - I just view them as irrelevant.

I'm not drawn to anyone any more, and this case reminded me why.

Why? When you say you view men irrelevant, obviously you mean in a sexual way
Otherwise well..............

Hoboo

Faugheen wrote: »

The courts didn't decide she wasn't raped ffs.

The jury can find the defendants not guilty but still believe the complainants story.

However, it's not enough to believe the story, there needs to be enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt, which there wasn't.

People need to stop spreading this absolute nonsense, bull**** and completely untrue statement that the courts system said she lied and that no crime took place.

We don't know what the jury actually discussed and decided. Just as probable, in fact more probable, they decided there was zero doubt and she lied. But we don't know.

The Legend Of Kira

Appledreams15 wrote: »

For Forks Sake wrote: »

On a Saturday, when there's no-one home? Or are they planning on marching the the UK Ministry of Justice under whose remit this case fell?

Weapons-grade stupidity either way.

Do you know what the protest is about? Educate yourself honey. Assuming on the internet is the worst way that you can fail.

It is about the legal systems in both the republic and Northen Ireland failing women in rape cases.

Everyone clear? Good.

Ok you say "" It is about the legal systems in both the republic and Northen Ireland failing women in rape cases.""
What type of changes to the legal system are the protest organisers proposing or suggesting ?

RuMan

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Well I became asexual over a period of time. It happened gradually as the years went by, when interacting with men simply wasn't bringing any happiness.

I don't hate men - I just view them as irrelevant.

I'm not drawn to anyone any more, and this case reminded me why.

Sounds like a cop out.

I fail to see the relevance of this case to your personal situation. There was a car crash story in the news, it reminded me of why i dont drive ?

Wegian

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's not entirely true, in fairness. A lot of people are defending the attitudes of the guys which, even if not guilty of rape, is seriously disrespectful (to say the least). And it's the kind of attitudes you'll get among lots of groups of guys going out on a Friday or Saturday night.

Agreed, some of the conversation was very poor

I correct myself to referring to "on the whole"

And to add context, this level of disrespect is not exclusively a gender thing, it is prevalent from both men and women

wexie

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

What type of changes to the legal system are the protest organisers proposing or suggesting ?

well eh....see....

We just want change dangit!!!

Flipper22

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

This is the reality - there are double standards for men and women when it comes to promiscuity. A lad is a legend if he keeps pulling, a girl is a slapper. But for valid reason. It is ingrained in our biolical evolution - a woman HAS to be choosy, because she gets pregnant. So being choosy results in ‘superior’ offspring and benefits survival of a species. A man can technically father many children in a single day and walk away. He doesn’t need to be anywhere near as choosy.

This is the cause of our judgment as lads being legends and girls being slappers. Don’t dismiss how fundamental this instinct is.

I think this is totally overblown to be honest.

In no way would I negatively judge a woman for purely liking to have sex. That's not an unusual view. Why wouldn't they and why would it, in itself be any reflection on their character?

people who think like that, well who cares?

Dots1982

Once all the evidence was heard there couldn’t be a conviction on the main charges. You had a witness who claimed she saw a threesome not a rape. What was left of the prosecution after that testimony?

foxyladyxx

Oaklyn Early Fauna wrote: »

:-) You would be surprised, very surprised.

I'm not directing this specifically at you, honestly, but I do wonder how much life experience some people have when it comes to sex and all that goes with it.

Women need to be educated so ?

Mrs Shuttleworth

RuMan wrote: »

Sounds like a cop out.

I fail to see the relevance of this case to your personal situation. There was a car crash story in the news, it reminded me of why i dont drive ?

Men are first and foremost out for sex. They find communication with women on a cerebral level difficult. The What's App texts were hardly the stuff of Noel Coward.

Keep digging, I'm really enjoying the confirmation.

Silentcorner

I don't think we understand how damaging a crime rape actually is...it destroys a person, women in particular....it is one of the most serious crimes on the statute books...

Imagine the outrage if 90% of murders in this country went unsolved...it would suggest a primitive society unable to erect proper moral standards in both justice and investigation of the taking of a persons life....luckily, in this country we have a fairly robust record in convicting murders...not too many false convictions that I am aware of...

Rape is probably the next most serious charge a person can face...it can destroy a life to either be a victim of a rape, or be a victim of a false accusation of rape...

The likelihood that a woman will be raped is much much higher than the likelihood of a man facing a false accusation of a rape...

The vast majority of rapes are not violent in nature...they are perpetrated by people known to/or familiar with the victim...there is never any evidence to these crimes...it normally boils down to one persons word against another's....which means the victim's character is on trial....

The conviction rape of rape is abysmal....which can only suggest that our justice system when it comes to successfully convicting rapists is primitive....by extension we as a people, when it comes to convicting rapists...are primitive...

Cases like this, come along every now and again, and they challenge society...people don't like to be challenged, they invariably and reject any notion that there is anything wrong....

I say that as an individual, who has had to challenge myself more times than I'd like...I've had to accept that what I thought was right, was actually completely wrong (I won't bore with those details)....

I have no doubt I will be ridiculed for what I am about to say...but I've been ridiculed before on threads like this and it doesn't bother me...I see my old self in some people that ridiculed me...

That legal system, when it comes to the pursuit of justice when it comes to rape, is a product of the male group think (not just restricted to men)....who in their right mind would think that allowing an already traumatised victim endure a vicious adversarial legal process without legal representation is ok?

When it comes to non violent rape cases, most of us take a starting point that the woman is lying...as does the legal process...

Who in their right mind think that it is perfectly acceptable to parade a woman's underwear around a courtroom?

Who in their right mind, think that it is perfectly acceptable to assassinate (unchallenged because of an absence of her own legal team) a woman's character in pursuit of doubt is ok?

Like I said, every so often, a case will come along that will challenge people....I can see that, sadly, we haven't really learned a thing...

holyhead

As the men have been found innocent of rape do they have a counter case against the accused for defamation/assassination of character given the seriousness of a rape allegation in societal terms.