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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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Sidebaro

Uncharted wrote:

I don't believe you either..... should I be jailed too?

Jailed? No.

Educated? Perhaps.

Mokuba

mayolady14 wrote: »

I never said that obviously.

You used your random 98 percent statistic.

I responded that an accusation does not mean a rape occured.

You then responded with your line about why would women go to rape crisis centres if they haven't been raped.

So either your response was conpletely unrelated to anything or you were attempting to argue that all accusers go to rape crisis centres.

yourdeadwright

mayolady14 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Again as I said you get both extremes here, You have people talking nonsense about the women (wrongly) but you also have people talking **** about the lads (no where found not guilty) its the internet it happens, I'm not going to say I believe you or not as iv never meet you , no idea what happened to you or what didn't , But if you had a issue with a Garda you should have taken it to the Garda Ombudsman they are there for situation like that and should be used , Any member of the public has the right to be listened to and have a compliant investigated,

I have no interest in reliving the matter any more, as I have moved on with my life. The point is that women are constantly being told to report their rapes, but when they do they aren’t believed. I have been repeatedly told that it would be my fault if my rapist rapes another woman. This is obviously exceptionally unfair

Again if you felt unfairly treated you should have followed up with a complaint and perused the matter,
Without sounded cold hearted The Ombudsman is in place to help complaints like this, its the sole reason it is in place .You decided not to peruse the one route that is there and then complain things need to change ,

Appledreams15

Mokuba wrote: »

So 100 percent of people who accuse another of rape go to rape crisis centres? That is what you have now inferred.

Where did you pluck that one from?

You're embarassing yourself at this point.

Why on earth are you f"*ing talking to a victim like this. Scumbag post. Old male mentality in Ireland rises to the fore yet again!

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

seamus wrote: »

How can someone have been murdered, but the person who killed them is not a murderer?

Likewise, how is it possible that a woman "may have been raped", when the person who had sex with her is not a rapist?

These are specific legal terms, not feelings or beliefs. If the guy who killed you is not a murderer, then you weren't murdered.

Evidence Seamus.

With murder you have to prove that B is guilty of premeditation and planning to kill A.

If there is no one else in the room, no witness' its B's word against the evidence.

A murder may have occurred but it may not be possible to prove it through the evidence.

A woman can be raped and there may not be enough evidence to prove the person raped her. Remember it has to be proven without reasonable doubt.

irishrebe

seamus wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Who said it did?

Let's shift focus a little to give a less contentious example.

Imagine you have the following scenario, the below being the facts;

1. A and B are in a room together
2. Nobody else enters or leaves the room
3. When B opens the door, A is found dead, having been stabbed in the back. B admits to having stabbed A in the back.
4. B is tried for murder
5. B is acquitted

Does this mean that A wasn't murdered? Yes, yes it does. A was "killed", but he wasn't murdered.

Likewise with this case, in absence of anyone else in that room, the fact that none of the men were found guilty of rape means that logically and legally, the woman was not raped. She may have been attacked. She may have been injured. She may have been degraded and humiliated.

But she wasn't raped. To even state that "it hasn't been proven that no rape happened", is to claim that the court is wrong.

The two are not at all comparable though, are they? This is the entire issue with rape cases. Stabbing someone to death is ALWAYS a crime, whether it was on purpose or not. Having sex with someone is not always a crime. Saying 'no rape happened' is making the assumption that consent was given and the girl was up for it (the basis of the defence). There is reasonable doubt that she was forced, because plenty of people consent to similar sexual acts. Hence, unlike your example where we have a dead body and irrefutable proof that the accused committed a crime, here we have one party's word against the other. I'm sure lots of people posting here would love to be as black and white as they want it to be, but it isn't. Being unable to categorically state that no rape occurred does not automatically make the accused rapists. That's not how it works.

Appledreams15

Chana Great Shark wrote: »

I hooe they do and I think they should sue all Facebook twitter etc users who they can identify.
A case like that would set a legal precedent in Ireland that would finally end trial by social media.

I think all parties including witnesses and the lady In question should follow suit

The PSNI are in fact investigating users on social media who identified the woman.

mayolady14

Uncharted wrote: »

I don't believe you either..... should I be jailed too? I mean you say you don't and didn't want it all brought up again,which is fair enough.... Thats your perogative yet you keep mentioning it......

No. I chose to bring it up in an anonymous forum to show how reluctant we are to believe rape victims. I have literally no reason to lie. His name is not mentioned and the post was edited so you don’t even know his team or sport. You don’t know when it happened. I didn’t mentioned the Garda station. I have literally nothing to gain or prove and yet still....we can’t believe women when they disclose they were assaulted

Assetbacked

mayolady14 wrote: »

Of course. But I can tell you I’m literally ashamed of every Irish man and woman who want this girl to be hung drawn and quartered for reporting what happened her. The way she is being spoken about it shocking. And shows why we don’t come forward more often

This is an extreme minority who actually want her shamed but you are trying to make it out to be a widespread view. It really is not.

wexie

Appledreams15 wrote: »

We are a joke of a nation. I don't think you see how Ireland is regarded abroad.

Believe it or not (I imagine you won't) but your little corner of the twittersphere doesn't equate to all of 'abroad'....

Wibbs

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I'm sure the men in India said the same thing.
We are a joke of a nation. I don't think you see how Ireland is regarded abroad. Totally backwards and treating women like ****.
At mass protests on rape in India, the lawyer for the rapist said 'India is the best country, in india there is no place for a woman'
How different are we? How different are we ?shame on you Ireland!

Attempting to compare Ireland with India on this and plenty of other criteria is beyond laughable and idiotic an argument. More of the oul Irish self loathing ballsology.

pjohnson

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Why on earth are you f"*ing talking to a victim like this. Scumbag post. Old male mentality in Ireland rises to the fore yet again!

Or do you mean India?

.......

This post has been deleted.

Guffy

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I'm sure the men in India said the same thing.
We are a joke of a nation. I don't think you see how Ireland is regarded abroad. Totally backwards and treating women like ****.
At mass protests on rape in India, the lawyer for the rapist said 'India is the best country, in india there is no place for a woman'
How different are we? How different are we ?shame on you Ireland!

You do know it was in the UK, right?

SAMTALK

Reading posts here on how girl "moaned" instead of saying "ouch".
Unbelievable that there seems to be a certain way to behave if you're being raped. !

I'm not sure what way the verdict should have gone but I do feel there was a lot of covering up done by the lads and some things just didn't ring true for me.

mayolady14

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Did the Gardi tell you they did not believe you?
Or did they tell you, you do not have case?

The Garda told me she would not be investigating further and referred to the mans involvement with a local team. And you act like this was the only person who didn’t believe me.

irishrebe

steo_magra wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Yeah, I'm fine. Just ashamed to be Irish, reading this ****. What a nasty little country. So glad my children won't be growing up in a place where you can't have an abortion if you're raped, and where you're dragged over the coals and called a liar for daring to report a sexual assault which doesn't end in a conviction.

The trial wasn't in Ireland though

Not talking about the trial. I'm talking about the comments on here and the sh1te all over social media about the victim.

Appledreams15

mayolady14 wrote: »

Excuse me for a second...do you?! I don’t really give a **** about anonymity tbh, I gave a **** about my mental health and what being forced to relive that in a court room would do to it. And we all know that everyone and their mother would know who I was. It’s a small country. I know what it’s like to be a victim of rape and not get justice. And I reported to the guards and was not believed.

Mayolady, today all women of Ireland stand together. I feel your pain, and I have suffered what you have suffered. It is so important to get as many people to these rallies today as possible. It is vitally important to raise international awareness of human rights abuses of women in Ireland

Max Prophet

Apparently 10s of people gathering at the spire for this "protest"

Mokuba

mayolady14 wrote: »

Of course. But I can tell you I’m literally ashamed of every Irish man and woman who want this girl to be hung drawn and quartered for reporting what happened her. The way she is being spoken about it shocking. And shows why we don’t come forward more often

What about those people who are openly saying that a unanimous verdict in a court of law is wrong, based on their own worldview - and are organising protests to criticise it.

Are you ashamed of those who now are taking to the streets when a jury reaches a verdict they don't like?

What about the 4 lads? Are they not entitled to move on with their lives as innocent men? Or will they have to endure this witch hunt for the remainder of their lives? Are you not ashamed of the people who continue to make their lives hell?

mayolady14

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Again if you felt unfairly treated you should have followed up with a complaint and perused the matter,
Without sounded cold hearted The Ombudsman is in place to help complaints like this, its the sole reason it is in place .You decided not to peruse the one route that is there and then complain things need to change ,

It’s pretty telling that you and others on this tread would prefer to chastise me for not taking things further than be horrified that 1. This happened and 2. A guard did nothing.

irishrebe

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No it isnt.

If I fall over while carrying a knife and stab you in the arm as I fall, its not a crime.[/quote]
Sigh. I said 'to death'. It's highly unlikely you would stab someone to death accidentally, and be able to prove it was an accident.

OwlsZat

mayolady14 wrote: »

No. I chose to bring it up in an anonymous forum to show how reluctant we are to believe rape victims. I have literally no reason to lie. His name is not mentioned and the post was edited so you don’t even know his team or sport. You don’t know when it happened. I didn’t mentioned the Garda station. I have literally nothing to gain or prove and yet still....we can’t believe women when they disclose they were assaulted

If you want people to discuss your particular set of circumstances start your own thread and I've no doubt people will engage you there. The difference here is that we've all been party to the reported evidence in the Belfast rape trial hence it can be discussed with a larger degree of common understanding.
Interleaving this trial with the trial you were denied is conflating matters and doing nothing to help people understand your position.

Wibbs

mayolady14 wrote: »

I have literally nothing to gain or prove and yet still....we can’t believe women when they disclose they were assaulted

Why should a society and the law automatically believe anyone's claims of a crime? Or are Women™ to be automatically treated and believed out of the box. What special inability to lie powers do they have? That's beyond idiotic a take. Though again the usual "feminist" nonsense peddled.

ShowMeTheCash

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Why on earth are you f"*ing talking to a victim like this. Scumbag post. Old male mentality in Ireland rises to the fore yet again!

Just as a matter of point... This happened in the UK under UK laws.... Not Ireland under Irish laws.

pjohnson

mayolady14 wrote: »

It’s pretty telling that you and others on this tread would prefer to chastise me for not taking things further than be horrified that 1. This happened and 2. A guard did nothing.

That garda shouldn't have got away with that

baylah17

mayolady14 wrote: »

And men think they can rape and get away with it. Because they do. 98% of them.

Or, equally as likely, there are lot of fake rape accusers out there!
*Comment is based on same insane logic as the post replied to

mayolady14

Mokuba wrote: »

What about those people who are openly saying that a unanimous verdict in a court of law is wrong, based on their own worldview - and are organising protests to criticise it.

Are you ashamed of those who now are taking to the streets when a jury reaches a verdict they don't like?

What about the 4 lads? Are they not entitled to move on with their lives as innocent men? Or will they have to endure this witch hunt for the remainder of their lives? Are you not ashamed of the people who continue to make their lives hell?

I will not be engaging with you further.

seamus

irishrebe wrote: »

Stabbing someone to death is ALWAYS a crime, whether it was on purpose or not.

That's not correct. There are circumstances where you may stab someone to death and you haven't committed a crime.

This is why you don't seem to get my point. Rape does not occupy some special category where a crime can have occurred but the person who committed it is not a criminal.

If you cannot prove that a crime was committed by the person, then what they did was not a crime. The legal system has to work that way, it makes no sense otherwise.

You can always tag the "...but the court may have made a mistake" rider onto any verdict. That's taken as a given, it doesn't even need to be said.

Luxxis

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Mayolady, today all women of Ireland stand together. I feel your pain, and I have suffered what you have suffered. It is so important to get as many people to these rallies today as possible. It is vitally important to raise international awareness of human rights abuses of women in Ireland

The court case was in the UK.

No human rights were infringed.

Get a grip