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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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Comments

Max Prophet

meeeeh wrote: »

I agree with the verdict, I don't think rape was proven. But I don't think there is anything to celebrate here. Their attitude to the woman (and other women) was disgusting, I don't think trial should be so public but at least women will know who to keep away from.

Should the woman be now named so lads will know to stay away from her ?

Mickeroo

bluewolf wrote: »

You hope she was genuinely raped because false accusations are worse than rape? For real?

He said he hopes she genuinely thought she was raped not genuinely raped.

Bananaleaf

I believe that the truth of what really happened is probably half way between what both sides allege.

I found it interesting that it was reported on Newstalk that the 4 men were found 'innocent'. Is this correct? As in, is this the word that was used, or just the wrong choice of phrase by the reporter?

Billgirlylegs

Mr.H wrote: »

not what i said

I said I hope she genuinely 'thought' she was raped.

Because yes a false accusation of rape is worse than rape.

These innocent men will have to live with doubters for the rest of their lives. Even though they are innocent.

So yes a false accusation is worse than rape.

I do hope she wasnt making a false accusation and she genuinely thought she was raped

I'd stop digging.

Just Saying

Does the fact that the decision was made unanimously by a mixed gender jury not weaken the case of many on here who wished to see a guilty verdict?

It would seem that these people think that a conviction would help more women come forward..unfortunately for those who think that way the case was decided by the jury on the evidence not wushful thinking.

I have no idea whether they were guilty or not but surely on the evidence there had to be reasonable doubt.

Jimbob1977

I think it's a big wake-up call for 'stars', whether it's in music or sport.

It might seem like laddish behaviour, but it's not acceptable anymore.

On the flip side, women should not put these men on a pedestal. I think it was George Boateng (Premiership footballer) who said that he wouldn't let his own daughter near a footballer because they were so dodgy.

erica74

The lads involved have painted themselves in an awful light with the text messages that came out after that night. The way they speak about women and, in particular, the other women who were there that night, is vile. If I was a woman who was friendly with them or their circle, I would be glad to know their true character as displayed in their messages.
Any person can sleep with as many people as they want, as long as it's all consensual, and still treat each other with respect and not speak about their encounters like they're in a porno.

py2006

Max Prophet wrote: »

Should the woman be now named so lads will know to stay away from her ?

I think that can only be done if a false accusation was proved.

Kyta

Can the lads take civil proceedings against her now for defamation of character? Their careers and lives are potentially ruined now.

Berserker

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I found it interesting that it was reported on Newstalk that the 4 men were found 'innocent'. Is this correct? As in, is this the word that was used, or just the wrong choice of phrase by the reporter?

Wrong choice of phrase. They were acquitted of all charges.

Mr.H

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

I'd stop digging.

I am not saying anything wrong. But I would like people to not lie about what I said.

Sidebaro

Mr.H wrote:

Because yes a false accusation of rape is worse than rape.

I think I'd rather be falsely accused of rape than raped. Maybe it's just me?

whatawaster

seamus wrote: »

One genuine issue which did come up in the conduct of the case was the disparity in the cross examination of the woman versus the men. She was basically grilled for the guts of a week on a short history of her adult life, whereas the defendants only questioned for half the time on their conduct on the night in question.

Whether this is something that can be rectified I don't know, but it certainly creates a huge barrier for anyone wanting to make a complaint of rape. You have to be prepared to open your entire life up to public scrutiny and prove that you're lily white, whereas the person you accuse just has to account for their behaviour that day/night.

The prosecution barrister could have cross-examined the defendants for weeks if they had wanted to. I suspect they didn't because they didn't think they would find anything that would help their case.

I suspect the opposite is true when it comes to the defense teams (of which there was 4 don't forget, which all adds to the time) and the accuser.

ebbsy

A night with loads of stupidity ALL round.

Nothing more.

storker

ebbsy wrote: »

Amadan indeed.

At least a good number of the...er...Twits...are taking him to task for what he said.

Mr.H

Sidebaro wrote: »

I think I'd rather be falsely accused of rape than raped. Maybe it's just me?

You know if your FALSELY accused of rape you will be always seen as a rapist. Even though you are not one

eviltwin

Mr.H wrote: »

not what i said

I said I hope she genuinely 'thought' she was raped.

Because yes a false accusation of rape is worse than rape.

These innocent men will have to live with doubters for the rest of their lives. Even though they are innocent.

So yes a false accusation is worse than rape.

I do hope she wasnt making a false accusation and she genuinely thought she was raped

I understand what you mean. I'd rather it was two different interpretations than someone deliberately setting out to destroy the lives of four innocent men. But if she does believe she was raped she's going to feel awful and the inevitable backlash she will now face will be awful. Of course if she lied she deserves it.

erica74

Mr.H wrote: »

Because yes a false accusation of rape is worse than rape.

These innocent men will have to live with doubters for the rest of their lives. Even though they are innocent.

So yes a false accusation is worse than rape.

Are you fucking serious?
You can't be serious - being falsely accused of rape is worse than rape? Do you mean, being falsely accused of rape is worse than being raped?

Strazdas

erica74 wrote: »

The lads involved have painted themselves in an awful light with the text messages that came out after that night. The way they speak about women and, in particular, the other women who were there that night, is vile. If I was a woman who was friendly with them or their circle, I would be glad to know their true character as displayed in their messages.
Any person can sleep with as many people as they want, as long as it's all consensual, and still treat each other with respect and not speak about their encounters like they're in a porno.

They definitely sound immature and like a bunch of jerks.

I don't think all sportsmen would be like this, there's bound to plenty who are not as crass and juvenile.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Kyta wrote: »

Can the lads take civil proceedings against her now for defamation of character? Their careers and lives are potentially ruined now.

They could but they’d have to prove that she was lying, similarly she could sue them in civil court where the balance of probabilities would come into play and she would not have to prove the case to the same standard as the criminal case

_Dara_

py2006 wrote: »

Not attacking you, but surely that does not equate to rape?

py2006, I feel like you’re not understanding my position. I believe that the verdict was the correct one. I think there was too much doubt and if it’s the case that she just regretted what happened, then of course it doesn’t equate to rape.

I’m not thrilled about being misrepresented like this. Someone else might skim the thread, see your post and think that I consider them guilty when I don’t. I DO think they’re misogynistic jackasses. That’s a different thing entirely.

david75

Apparently the judge in the case has previous and oversaw a trial where a guy raped a 12 year old got her pregnant and somehow walked out free from the court.
He pretty much instructed this jury to find these lads innocent.

Personally I believe her.

Mutant z

They are innocent unfortunately their reputations have still taken a knock because of these false allegations, the one who made these allegations can rest assured she can sleep easy at night for potentially damaging their careers.

ohnonotgmail

Kyta wrote: »

Can the lads take civil proceedings against her now for defamation of character? Their careers and lives are potentially ruined now.

No.

Roger_007

retro:electro wrote: »

This kind of attitude is dangerous. This has nothing to do with “smug middle class” jersey boys “winning” over a woman. Justice is blind. It cares not for who you are or where you’re from. I’m astoudned at the amount of **** like this I’m reading lately. The social standing standing of those involved should be left at the door. All that matters is what happened that night between those involved. Shame on this fool

I would think that the Twitter comment will be taken down. It is a blatantly libellous statement given that the 'boys' were acquitted of the charges.

jr86

Strong words by Jackson's solicitor on the Social Media nutjobs

Don't worry this will all be forgotten in a week wait till the next bandwagon comes along for them

Sidebaro

Mr.H wrote:

You know if your FALSELY accused of rape you will be always seen as a rapist. Even though you are not one

Can you think of any lasting effect of being raped?

py2006

_Dara_ wrote: »

py2006, I feel like you’re not understanding my position. I believe that the verdict was the correct one. I think there was too much doubt and if it’s the case that she just regretted what happened, then of course it doesn’t equate to rape.

I’m not thrilled about being misrepresented like this. Someone else might skim the thread, see your post and think that I consider them guilty when I don’t. I DO think they’re misogynistic jackasses. That’s a different thing entirely.

Oh fair enough. That is why I asked.

Strazdas

Kyta wrote: »

Can the lads take civil proceedings against her now for defamation of character? Their careers and lives are potentially ruined now.

I don't think so.....she may have believed she was raped and their naming was down to the NI legal system, not her (apparently the accused couldn't have been named in a similar court case in the Republic).

Berserker

seamus wrote: »

She was basically grilled for the guts of a week on a short history of her adult life, whereas the defendants only questioned for half the time on their conduct on the night in question.

The prosecution barrister felt that there was no more questions to answer after questioning the defendants for that amount of time. He could have questioned them for another week if he felt the need.