KD345 wrote: » What will most likely happen will be a transfer of routes to Donnybrook from other depots, I wouldn’t be surprised if the 15a/b, 49 or 150 moved to Donnybrook from Ringsend and there will most likely be additional duties added to the 46a and 145.
Stephen15 wrote: » Why not move some the Donnybrook drivers to other DB depots.
bebeman wrote: » So much wrong here. Donnybrook getting hit hard in October, will be 150 spare drivers in just that depot. Wont be 150 retiring, Wont be many transferring to Go Ahead. Wont be putting 150 drivers to work on increased services, what would it be like , a 46a every 1 minute. Take the pro NTA blinkers off, never said DB drivers or DB management had a problem working a 24 hour service, said the hold up was the NTA not wanting to pay for it.
dashcamdanny wrote: » As no one knows yet, why are you arguing?
bebeman wrote: » Donnybrook getting hit hard in October, will be 150 spare drivers in just that depot.
Wont be putting 150 drivers to work on increased services, what would it be like , a 46a every 1 minute.
Take the pro NTA blinkers off, never said DB drivers or DB management had a problem working a 24 hour service, said the hold up was the NTA not wanting to pay for it.
devnull wrote: » There will be natural wastage, retirements and things like that which will mean drivers will still be leaving the company and will need to be replaced and the plan is that all drivers who are on the routes transferring to Go-Ahead will go into other routes around about the same time they lost their existing routes, so they won't be spare, more likely redeployed to other expanded routes. Not all routes are transferring in one go, it's on a depot by depot basis and part of that reason may well be to expand the continuing routes from that depot at the same time that others transfer to Go-Ahead and doing it in stages, depot by depot makes it far easier to manage rather than having one big bang. Considering Go-Ahead have been advertising for training staff it's pretty clear that they will be training their own staff - no new company coming into the market will want the company they are replacing to train their new staff - that would be sheer lunacy and wont' benefit Go-Ahead in any other way, I would say they will most likely do it all in-house or outsource it to a reputable third party provider for those who do not have licenses. On the subject of 24 hour routes, you've been saying for a number of months that Dublin Bus staff would have no problem with working 24 hour routes and that there are no issues with staffing such services and all the hold up is with the NTA. Now you are claiming that there are issues with staffing such services, which appears to be a discrepancy from what you said before? Which one is true? Do they have issues with staffing 24 hour routes or not?
bebeman wrote: » Latest Rumour! DB training school to reopen in August to train drivers. We know DB will have a abundance of spare drivers from September, so its is for one of two things. 1,DB are training drivers for Go Ahead. 2, Need drivers for 24 hours service as little appetite from current drivers to do it.
dublinman1990 wrote: » It appears that the new livery for GAD has now been sorted now.https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/26218651127/in/faves-46885160@N06/https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/40359570514/in/faves-46885160@N06/https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/27195742158/ It looks really nice as it's finished tbf.
Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: » I have worked the office job before in 2 or 3 different companies, between NCT head office, AA insurance and another company in the south county for payment cards industry. I have sat in the traffic, I have gotten abusive phonecalls and to be honest I'd be happier back in one of those jobs again than where I am now. In Dublin bus more so you do get bosses and customers breathing down your neck , from the supervisor on the radio asking where are you, what bus have you got, will you do this that and the other. You have an employee going around in plain clothing to watch your driving and what your doing , you have complaints coming in putting you up in front of your manager. Even fake complaints that could have potential , so yes I have worked both sides , the office work isint anything fancy but it's better. Adding to that other factors as working outdoors in -0 temperatures and terrible heating etc ,walking to get buses in said weather. On the partner topic, it's not so much it's your job they dislike, I think partners don't really care what you do once your happy in the job and you earn what you deserve, I mean they have issues where you'd only see them rarely for a short time, like passing. Ships in the night. A very recent example is a colluege of mine recently got another bus driving job for people with disabilities and it's a Monday to Friday day time only job and he has been married for many years. Recently I bumped into him and he couldn't believe how much he didn't know or forgotten about his wife until he went working decent day shifts only. He only worked with me for a few years but he felt he missed out on a lot of their lives together On other industries, I cringe at the thought of what paramedics, nurses etc must put up with for the money they get from their 12 hour plus shifts and druken fools making their work harder, I really feel for them and if people like them ever wanted support for better working terms I'd have no issue giving support . I just want to point something back to Alex there. My post 3-4 posts back wasn't so much about me at all and i didn't mean to bring it across as that but more what the poster said about Dublin bus being a premium employer and it looking good from the outside. My point was from the outside may seem great ,but working it is a completely different story. It was like back when the strike was on and people were bashing saying they would do the job for half what we do now etc. I would happily invite anyone to do it on what we currently earn and I bet they wouldn't be happy or wouldn't stick it. It's a complete body clock disaster and depressing place to be.@alex again: I went from private to Dublin bus to BÉ. Be being better in my opinion for less abuse and cleaner work as such. And yes we've had this discussion before and I've mentioned it before already I'm already moving onto a different path away from it, again my debate was only for the other people on their outside looking in comments.
Stephen15 wrote: » I think you have a perception of a 9-5 office as being a nice easy work life where everybody wears a suit, well spoken and diplomatic to one another sorry to burst your bubble but that is not the case. When your working a 9-5 office you get up sometime before 7.30 in the morning depending on how far you live and sit in traffic for most of journey to work or stand on an overcrowded bus, train or tram paying through the nose for an annual ticket. When you get to work you have to deal with arsehole bosses and colleagues and even in most office you still have to deal with let us say tricky customers all of whom like to make life difficult for you. Don't get me wrong it has its pros and it's cons but so those every job. Cushy jobs are few and far between and even they have negative aspects. From an outsider point of view see the negative aspects of the job a bus driver as being dealing with abusive passengers and irregular hours. Its positives are not having deal with bosses or colleagues breathing down your neck all the time and a generally steady and secure job with good perks and benefits and a fair days wage at least for someone working for DB or BE. If your partner doesn't like the job you do then he/she is obivously unworthy of you. Why would you want to date someone who is not content with you working. The bus industry is definitely not the only industry which workers are putting up with crap. Many industries are going through the process of hours and pay getting worse especially for new entrants as many workers are willing to put up with this nonsense that can be put a lot down to a general un interest in standing up and fighting for what you are entitled to. More and more people are willing to accept crappy pay and crappy hours.
Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: » Can you tell me what's premium about being at work at unsocial hours ? Where a good chunk of people can work a Monday to Friday gig and enjoy evenings and weekends off and enjoy going for a pint at the weekends, where as the bus driver only gets 2 weekends off every 2 and half months ? That's not premium. The abuse we take in work face to face including being abused , spat on, threatened , called every name under the sun and so on where working in an office it wouldn't happen ? Again not premium. Not having a pop at you personally but I do have an issue with people thinking they know what the job is like when they never worked it. You can even research my previous posts from 4 years ago if you want when I was in the application process for the job , I was excited and looking forward to it being young and all that, but now ? I'm miserable as f'uck in the job and looking for any sort of decent way out. Money side of things isint good either, for a 5 day week on shift work (which does include only 9 hours between shifts) is only about 500-600 a week after tax. And that's just not worth it at all when you miss out on life, when father's miss out on their children growing up or why there's a high percentage of drivers divorced, single and also leaving the job because their wives / partners tell them if they don't their leaving them. There's nothing premium about this job. And personally I think,from what i see everyday, it's going to be an industry of drivers that will take low wages and so a terrible job because they don't care and also there'll be a shortage of drivers for a long time.
antoinolachtnai wrote: » That is heartening. I am glad you did not waste your time on what would be a fruitless errand. Perhaps it would be better if the drivers just parked the buses at the bus station? After all, at the end of the shift, the bus will only have to be returned to the bus station. In fact, it might be better if everybody stayed at home. All the moving around achieves net nothing. Most companies had to reduce their operating costs during the downturn. Dublin Bus's unit costs actually increased as I remember it. Do you think we should have a discussion about bus drivers wages, since you bring it up? That is certainly true. If it isn't true, then BAC will have gone out of business.You do not know about costs of companies, but now you claim knowledge of the workings of the Singaporean labour and bus market. What are you talking about? SG's bus services have had competition for 30 years at least. You are talking about bus driver pay again. From this thread, I am worried about quality as much as cost. According to reports from drivers, the fairly reckless practice of allowing free-riding on public transport is endorsed by management. This leaves drivers and passengers in a dangerous position where the driver and the company aren't really in proper control of what goes on on the bus. I am surprised that drivers tolerate it, but obviously that is the drivers' decisions to make. If you think that the incumbent cares about its drivers, you should think again.
Go-Ahead started operations on Sept 4 and has 24 services, with one more to begin next year. Transport analyst Dr Park Byung Joon, who lectures at SIM University, said the interlining model is common in the West but it may not be well-received by bus drivers here as it involves “a lot more work” at lower remuneration. “You have to learn and drive more than one route ... In London, the drivers are paid quite well. But (not) in Singapore ... So I don’t blame drivers for not (wanting to do) it,” he said.
SINGAPORE — One of Singapore’s newest public bus operators, the London-based Tower Transit, announced on Monday (May 16) that it will be increasing the pay of its bus drivers and staff members by 3.5 per cent from this month. With the news, at least one rival incumbent operator is expected to follow suit and raise salaries — SBS Transit’s senior vice-president of corporate communications Tammy Tan said the company would make an announcement soon after talks with the union.
When contacted, SMRT did not reveal how much it pays its bus captains, only that remuneration was “comparable” with the market, taking into account performance incentives and allowances such as over-time. In December, SMRT announced it was looking to recruit 700 more staff — including bus captains — and among the perks offered was a sign-on bonus worth S$2,000 for drivers or trainers hired between Dec 11 and April 1
end of the road wrote: » dublin bus rightly pay a good wage to their employees and are thankfully a premium employer. go ahead will also be a premium employer by the sounds of things, as while the wage may not be quite as much as db, the other offerings certainly seem to make up for it, from an outsider's point of view anyway.
AlekSmart wrote: » Good Lord No,but thats because I'm not spending my life looking around the World to find higher operating costs.
Of course costs matter....but they are only part of a larger and far more fluid bigger picture. Of course cost reductions are part and parcel of this picture,just as,at the opposite end of the cycle,those reduced costs will again Increase...thats how the cookie keeps crumbling.
These cycles are not Bus Driver specific,or even Public Transport specific....it's how societies,particularly capitalist societies work,and it sure seems to suit more people (Busdrivers included ) than the opposing ethos of Socialisim ?
Dublin.....Ireland.....it's our situation,and it's as unique an operational setup as any other Country has.....direct comparisons are largely moot,as every other location has differences across a great many differing areas...Bus Drivers wages being but one of those ?
Give it 5 years,and I'll wager that there will be not-a-lot,between BAC and Go-Ahead or whatever new kid arrives in the interim.
Singapore,as a recent example,is seeing a substantial increase in Bus Captain salaries,as the new Operators now vie for the services of a fairly static Bus Captain pool.
Put simply,the new,more Commercially Focused operators are now having to improve their Employment Package offers,which INCREASE their costs.....do they like it ?...No....does the Tendering Authority Like it ?...No...but hey,that's what is happening,so unless they reduce or withdraw services,it's time to take a deep breath and carry on.
Our Republic is NOT a low-wage economy,and Full-Time Busdriving involves utilizing skill-sets, at a level which carries with it a degree of Competence deserving of a certain level of remuneration.
Lets see where the BMO process goes in relation to this,as,if it IS successful in reducing costs,then I'd be the FIRST to support it's expansion into other areas,such as ...Politics ?....Law...? Apologies if it seems rhetorical,but I might be just me ?
devnull wrote: » The other bidders were - Go Ahead - Transdev - Eirebus - Matthews Tenders don't work on picking your favourites, they work on a points system.
devnull wrote: » True - just had a look and they set up a new company WATERFORD URBUS LIMITED to do the bidding it seems although as you say technically it was Eirebus behind it.
GM228 wrote: » It was actually UrBus who bid not Eirebus, although it is owned by Eirebus.
antoinolachtnai wrote: » Well that was a crap rhetorical trick if you don't mind me saying so. This is the outlook (that costs basically don't matter, that there is no way to reduce costs and that the only way to improve quality is to reduce costs) that in a large part explains how Dublin's and Ireland's public transport has gotten itself to the situation that it is in. No other industry works on this model. Even civil servants have to manage cost and quality now. The way things are going, soon even Guards will be doing it. Well, that is great but operating costs are far higher on Dublin Bus than they are in operations elsewhere. Can you find a bus company anywhere in the world that has higher unit costs than Dublin Bus?
devnull wrote: » The other bidders were - Go Ahead - Transdev- Eirebus - Matthews Tenders don't work on picking your favourites, they work on a points system.
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