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Irish Language Act in the North: Have Sinn Fein scored a major own goal?

jimd2

Probably not a popular opinion as most I speak to are fully in favour of Sinn Fein's strategy ref the Irish Language Act in the North.

However I think that they have possibly scored a major own goal in insisting on the imposing of the Irish Language Act. I think they have handed the DUP a Get Out Of Jail ard with regards to Devoltion and, allied to not taking their Westminister seats have allowed the sitution develop where the British government will not act to impose their will on the DUP.

So the DUP seem to be getting what they wanted - a return to direct rule from London and, linked in to Brexit this must be against the overall nationalist.

Regarding the Irish Language Act, in my opinion a lot of the stuff s bells and whistles such as signage and will do very little to really increase the use of Irish in the North. I think Sinn Fein thought they were in a stronger position than they were and thought this would be easier to get than it was.

However I hink the price they look to be payin is too much but they have gone too far and cannot back down now especially with a new leader. So major wn goal from Adams and co..

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blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is untrue. ^^
Expulsion is automatic once she defied the whip. By central party decree.

Now race away back through the thread and find where I said that she had been expelled from FG as opposed to the PP. I will save you your time, I didn't say it at any point.

Dishonesty you say? Personalised slurs you say? :rolleyes:

What’s untrue? - Lucinda herself says she was forced to resign her ministry - I.e. resign or be sacked. Maybe things are different in whatever political party you want to claim not to have anything to do with whatsoever this week, but in any normal political party being “forced to resign” me as resign or be sacked.

Below so you claiming that “parties” - not PPs which are a grouping within a party - have expelled people - dotted in between multiple posts referring to Lucinda. I’m sure we’ll ge the usual weaselinf to try and claim now that you actually meant something completely different - but that’s par for the course at this stage

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have they expelled anyone over their 8th position?

All parties have to expel members for 'uncomradely behaviour'.

Do we need to go into the lists again? :rolleyes:

McMurphy

blackwhite wrote: »

Maybe if Enda Kenny wanted her out of the party he should have taken the approach favoured by the parties that have are exempt from your criticism,

No idea what you're referring to here tbh.

and gotten a few supporters to start a social media campaign to spread. A few rumours and blacken her name.

Why go to that effort when a few of the "grassroots" in her locality could do the same job?

You're over thinking things BW.

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

What’s untrue? - Lucinda herself says she was forced to resign her ministry - I.e. resign or be sacked. Maybe things are different in whatever political party you want to claim not to have anything to do with whatsoever this week, but in any normal political party being “forced to resign” me as resign or be sacked.

Never trust a politician trying to make political capital..

Mr Kehoe said in letters to the four rebels that their failure to accept the party whip meant that the rule in the Fine Gael constitution that provides for the automatic loss of the whip was being applied forthwith.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-expels-four-tds-for-voting-against-abortion-bill-1.1450809

Below so you claiming that “parties” - not PPs which are a grouping within a party - have expelled people - dotted in between multiple posts referring to Lucinda. I’m sure we’ll ge the usual weaselinf to try and claim now that you actually meant something completely different - but that’s par for the course at this stage

Hold on here a minute.

Even Jawgap has said that 'uncomradely behaviour' was not a reference to defying the whip on abortion.

All parties have expelled members for criminal and other wrong doing.

I at no point claimed that she was expelled from the party. And you cannot find the honour to admit you simply got that wrong.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is untrue. ^^
Expulsion is automatic once she defied the whip. By central party decree.

Now race away back through the thread and find where I said that she had been expelled from FG as opposed to the PP. I will save you your time, I didn't say it at any point.

Dishonesty you say? Personalised slurs you say? :rolleyes:

Really, automatic you say.......

......not according to rule 50(i) of the FG constitution.......

Where, following a complaint the Whip has been withdrawn from a member of the Parliamentary Party, the Disciplinary Committee may if it thinks fit consider that complaint to see whether it wishes to proceed to consider the expulsion of that member from the Party and where it wishes to proceed as aforesaid the provisions of Rule 44B1. (iv) shall apply.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Really, automatic you say.......

......not according to rule 50(i) of the FG constitution.......

Why didn't you read what Kehoe said, it was a 'code of conduct' violation which the rules state:

Party Central Fine Gael wrote:

Where any member of the Parliamentary Party is in
breach of the Code of Conduct or Party Pledge or fails to
make the contribution provided for in 44A (xvii) he or she
shall automatically lose the Party Whip. Questions of fact
as to whether the Pledge or Code of Conduct has been
breached or the contribution specified has been made
shall be determined by the Parliamentary Party.

Give it up lads. That hole is getting deeper and deeper.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why didn't you read what Kehoe said, it was a 'code of conduct' violation which the rules state:

Give it up lads. That hole is getting deeper and deeper.

Yeah, lose the whip....

.......not automatically expelled from the party.

Honestly even SF should be able to understand this.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Yeah, lose the whip....

.......not automatically expelled from the party.

Honestly even SF should be able to understand this.

:D

Move the goalposts now.

I NEVER said she was expelled from the party, anywhere on this thread.

If I did, quote it there Jawgap.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D

Move the goalposts now.

I NEVER said she was expelled from the party, anywhere on this thread.

If I did, quote it there Jawgap.

Well I never said you did, unless you took the reference to SF to include yourself, which I'd be surprised at given you're not a member.........apparently.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Well I never said you did, unless you took the reference to SF to include yourself, which I'd be surprised at given you're not a member.........apparently.

Pathetic attempt to salvage something there.

Yeah, lose the whip....

.......not automatically expelled from the party.

Here you are ^^^ correcting me for something I never said.

Keep digging.

blanch152

Getting back on topic.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-i-dont-feel-snubbed-by-donald-trump-36705505.html

"Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said she does not feel she was snubbed by US President Donald Trump after she did not receive an invite to attend the annual St Patrick’s Day ceremony in the White House."

If I don't invite her to my 60th birthday party, will she also feel she wasn't snubbed, because she certainly was?

:D:D It certainly would be a waste of not inviting her, although it is still a small number of years away.

Seriously, no amount of spin can take away from the fact that the White House snubbed both sectarian parties. Of course, while the SF money making machine is raising money for the party in the US, she has to put a good spin on it.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Getting back on topic.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-i-dont-feel-snubbed-by-donald-trump-36705505.html

"Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said she does not feel she was snubbed by US President Donald Trump after she did not receive an invite to attend the annual St Patrick’s Day ceremony in the White House."

If I don't invite her to my 60th birthday party, will she also feel she wasn't snubbed, because she certainly was? :D:D It certainly would be a waste of not inviting her, although it is still a small number of years away.

Seriously, no amount of spin can take away from the fact that the White House snubbed both sectarian parties. Of course, while the SF money making machine is raising money for the party in the US, she has to put a good spin on it.

Did Trump invite Micheál Martin, Brendan Howlin, or any other Irish political party leader ?

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Getting back on topic.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-i-dont-feel-snubbed-by-donald-trump-36705505.html

"Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has said she does not feel she was snubbed by US President Donald Trump after she did not receive an invite to attend the annual St Patrick’s Day ceremony in the White House."

If I don't invite her to my 60th birthday party, will she also feel she wasn't snubbed, because she certainly was? :D:D It certainly would be a waste of not inviting her, although it is still a small number of years away.

Seriously, no amount of spin can take away from the fact that the White House snubbed both sectarian parties. Of course, while the SF money making machine is raising money for the party in the US, she has to put a good spin on it.

One fool is enough in the White House already from Ireland. The Shinners were probably better off giving that place a wide berth today.

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

Did Trump invite Micheál Martin, Brendan Howlin, or any other Irish political party leader ?

Quite a red herring. Were they ever invited?

The White House has traditionally invited the leaders of the two main political parties in the North to the 17th March functions. This year, they were snubbed.

What that has to do with others who were never invited is beyond me.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite a red herring. Were they ever invited?

The White House has traditionally invited the leaders of the two main political parties in the North to the 17th March functions. This year, they were snubbed.

What that has to do with others who were never invited is beyond me.

We know they were snubbed, that is the White House doing what it does.

And no politician is ever going to admit that.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We know they were snubbed, that is the White House doing what it does.

And no politician is ever going to admit that.

Yes, but keeping quiet about it is surely a better path to take than mouthing all over national media that you weren't snubbed.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, but keeping quiet about it is surely a better path to take than mouthing all over national media that you weren't snubbed.

I think another politician will be remembered much more for 'mouthing off' as a result of the trip myself.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite a red herring. Were they ever invited?

The White House has traditionally invited the leaders of the two main political parties in the North to the 17th March functions. This year, they were snubbed.

What that has to do with others who were never invited is beyond me.

Sounds as if you are attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill tbh.
I doubt Foster felt snubbed either.

In fact after the past few days Varadkar probably envies McDonald and Foster, in wishing he hadn`t been invited either.
You must be pleased the leader of your party the Greens is threatening to tear him a new one when he gets back to the auld sod.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, but keeping quiet about it is surely a better path to take than mouthing all over national media that you weren't snubbed.

Varadkar perhaps would have been better off not doing a bit of mouthing off before he went.
Embarrassed himself in that regards imo.

FrancieBrady

charlie14 wrote: »

Varadkar perhaps would have been better off not doing a bit of mouthing off before he went.
Embarrassed himself in that regards imo.

Own goal maybe?

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

Sounds as if you are attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill tbh.
I doubt Foster felt snubbed either.

In fact after the past few days Varadkar probably envies McDonald and Foster, in wishing he hadn`t been invited either.
You must be pleased the leader of your party the Greens is threatening to tear him a new one when he gets back to the auld sod.

charlie14 wrote: »

Varadkar perhaps would have been better off not doing a bit of mouthing off before he went.
Embarrassed himself in that regards imo.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Own goal maybe?

Is this the Leo thread?

Oh no, it's not.

We are discussing the implications of the snubbing of the two sectarian parties in the North, but somehow, Leo becomes the main subject. Puzzled, I am.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Is this the Leo thread?

Oh no, it's not.

We are discussing the implications of the snubbing of the two sectarian parties in the North, but somehow, Leo becomes the main subject. Puzzled, I am.

Go on, tell us the implications of being snubbed by Trumps White House.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Is this the Leo thread?

Oh no, it's not.

We are discussing the implications of the snubbing of the two sectarian parties in the North, but somehow, Leo becomes the main subject. Puzzled, I am.

No, they were not. Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley Jnr were there.

ancapailldorcha

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now race away back through the thread and find where I said that she had been expelled from FG as opposed to the PP. I will save you your time, I didn't say it at any point.

Dishonesty you say? Personalised slurs you say? :rolleyes:

Don't post like this again please.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You obviously didn't read the article - NO taxpayer money was used.

Mary Lou imagined that taxpayer money was used. She was wrong.

Actually I read it. You were wrong about its content and intent. It referenced the use of the flag possibly being used (associated with Leo using our money) to promote FF politicians. Now you're off on another misunderstanding. I realise if one defends or distracts from a politician using tax payer money for his own promotion, like Leo, one must double down for members of the sister party.

blanch152 wrote: »

Is this the Leo thread?

Oh no, it's not.

We are discussing the implications of the snubbing of the two sectarian parties in the North, but somehow, Leo becomes the main subject. Puzzled, I am.

Nice to see the DUP backing the UK Tory cuts to school dinner funding as long as the north is exempt. Classy.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Is this the Leo thread?

Oh no, it's not.

We are discussing the implications of the snubbing of the two sectarian parties in the North, but somehow, Leo becomes the main subject. Puzzled, I am.

For someone who has gone off on so many tangents yourself when the actual title of this thread is "Have Sinn Féin scored a major own goal" I am puzzled myself as to why you now wish to narrow the boundaries. Especially as you were so keen earlier to discuss matters Irish related in Washington this week.

Btw, seeing as you are so eager to get back to the thread title, you still believe SInn Féin rather than the DUP scored an own goal with the breakdown of talks on reforming the assembly ?

Havockk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go on, tell us the implications of being snubbed by Trumps White House.

Point of pride I would go as far as to say to be honest.

FrancieBrady

Havockk wrote: »

Point of pride I would go as far as to say to be honest.

So I guess they will get over it so.

recedite

"Better to stay quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt."
But at least the White House got an Irish stand-up comedy routine, which is the main thing.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: If this thread is going to become a repository for random links then I'm going to have to close it. Back on topic please.

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0318/948425-bradley-stormont-powersharing/

Differences between the Irish and UK governments on how to handle the North.

Bradley puts it up to them "I cannot tell two grown-up parties in the DUP and Sinn Féin, who are the two parties that need to make an agreement, to reach an accommodation and come to an accommodation to form a devolved government."

Certainly, in the way that Sinn Fein have been running to the governments crying about the bullying DUP, there has been more than a little echo of childish behaviour. Similarly, in the DUP making a big thing of an issue such as SSM is also very childish behaviour.

However, is there really any appetite from either party to restore Stormont? I think SF want another go at becoming the largest party while the DUP are happy for the moment to sit in government in London instead of Belfast.