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Imminent Implementation of the Clean Livestock Policy for Sheep.

greysides

This is what I've heard...as Ronald Reagan said, 'Trust but verify.'

You are most likely aware of this policy already. It's a done deal so there's no point arguing the rights or wrongs here.

This is some more info on it from Teagasc. The pictures are useful but I've seen sheep worse than the Category C picture presented for slaughter...

Now, to the kernal of the problem. I am reliably informed that as of January 1st, Category C sheep can not be slaughtered. (I can not find any information on Google to confirm this.)

Classification of the sheep will take place prior to slaughter at meat plants.

BUT... once sheep have stood on the ground of the plant they can not be returned to the farm.

If they can not be classified without leaving the transport there will be a problem...

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greysides

Can't give you evidence, just saying how it is. Big retailers are calling the shots. We're not looking for microbiological sterile carcases, just visibly clean on inspection. The standard is probably considerably lower than you are considering. Isn't it everyone's right that when you buy meat you can expect it not to have any faecal, gut or soil/dust contamination on it?
Once it's present it will never be as good as if it hadn't been present, even with correction. Better not to be there in the first place.
Currently carcases are sorted out at the next stage of processing but that's not what should be the practice.
The process to ensure clean, safe food is that there is risk reduction at every stage. That includes adequate cooking by the consumer. These changes are about reducing the risk at abattoir level.
Whether you or I agree with them, this is happening.

wrangler

greysides wrote: »

Can't give you evidence, just saying how it is. Big retailers are calling the shots. We're not looking for microbiological sterile carcases, just visibly clean on inspection. The standard is probably considerably lower than you are considering. Isn't it everyone's right that when you buy meat you can expect it not to have any faecal, gut or soil/dust contamination on it?
Once it's present it will never be as good as if it hadn't been present, even with correction. Better not to be there in the first place.
Currently carcases are sorted out at the next stage of processing but that's not what should be the practice.
The process to ensure clean, safe food is that there is risk reduction at every stage. That includes adequate cooking by the consumer. These changes are about reducing the risk at abattoir level.
Whether you or I agree with them, this is happening.

TBF that's why we cook food, it was never possible for it to be sterile......it's just another reason now to drive people from producing food by people insulated from the real world.
It's long past time for the worm to turn, thank god I'm getting out

greysides

wrangler wrote: »

Some farmers taking the proverbial and then we all have to suffer, some lambs are a right mess

In honesty, yes. Over and above those that get caught out some lambs are just awful and repetitively so from the same supplier. We can see the names on the scales.... Dirty lots and clean lots, changing to match the change of names. With factories not wanting to upset suppliers the only way to enforce the rules was for the Dept to enforce it over all factories at the same time. The lads on the line who have been under pressure to slaughter them cleanly are delighted. At long last the greatest source of the problem is being tackled. These lads work long hard hours. It's time the blame fell where it's due.

greysides

wrangler wrote: »

..it's just another reason now to drive people from producing food by people insulated from the real world.
It's long past time for the worm to turn, thank god I'm getting out

You might have been appalled at the standard 10-15 years ago, even as a lay person just using your cop on. I was ! Things have improved a lot and are still being improved.

The worm that needed to turn was the line worker getting the blame for someone else's inaction. Now, things are turning for him.

Don't think that all lambs coming in were dirty. Most weren't and for these suppliers there is little or nothing to change.
Had you lambs you supplied pointed out as being dirty?
If not, you would have little to worry about now.

Its not a case of a rising tide lifting all ships. Its a case of those that needed, or had resisted, change having to do so now.

grassroot1

Yes but WET sheep this is Ireland FFS.
I was talking to someone working in ICM Camolin today he said it there was uproar during the week.
There is a guy from Galway shearing non stop up in the lairage. He said it is affecting through put on the line.
Last April I brought up lambs for slaughter and put them in a pen behind some hoggets in the lairage.Something caught my eye in the pen of hoggets they were in bits with scab scandalous. If my lambs had failed inspection they would not be coming home out of there under any circumstances.

razor8

I’m kicking myself I didn’t take a picture of the 4 I had last week. They had 2 bays to themselves on slats and were bone dry. I don’t know what else I could of done apart from bath them as I seen stated in paper

If lambs are filthy fair enough but lambs are been turned away that are not

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

Yes but WET sheep this is Ireland FFS.

Wet can be handled by leaving them to dry out in the lairage. Wet & dirty might be handled by drying out. Might.

I was talking to someone working in ICM Camolin today he said it there was uproar during the week.

Lads on the line were delighted. Initially anyway.

Dirty sheep have been the elephant in the room for a long time.

grassroot1

I dont think any farmer wants to produce a product that is not fit for consumption but it just seems we are penalised for everything and we carry the cost for everything.

greysides

razor8 wrote: »

I’m kicking myself I didn’t take a picture of the 4 I had last week. They had 2 bays to themselves on slats and were bone dry. I don’t know what else I could of done apart from bath them as I seen stated in paper

If lambs are filthy fair enough but lambs are been turned away that are not

I'm kicking myself I didn't get a picture of the large group of pristine lambs that came up during the week. It showed what can be done. Once they are hung up and the belly and arse on display you can really see where they are dirty.

It's often the underbelly that wouldn't always be very obvious.

Having dealt with the hassle of dirty sheep for years I'm glad not to be on point for dealing with this but I've had enough of dirty sheep.

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

I dont think any farmer wants to produce a product that is not fit for consumption but it just seems we are penalised for everything and we carry the cost for everything.

There are some hard-nosed lads out there. I won't argue the penalised and cost bit but the only people left who can improve the cleanliness of sheep coming in are farmers/transporters.

razor8

greysides wrote: »

I'm kicking myself I didn't get a picture of the large group of pristine lambs that came up during the week. It showed what can be done. Once they are hung up and the belly and arse on display you can really see where they are dirty.

It's often the underbelly that wouldn't always be very obvious.

Having dealt with the hassle of dirty sheep for years I'm glad not to be on point for dealing with this but I've had enough of dirty sheep.

did he bath them or had owner a few sheep the run of a couple of hundred acres . at this time of year pristine would hardly be common. most would be fed indoors at this stage & pick up dirt from climbing on each other or getting meal in a muddy field because of all the rain. this week anyway lambs outside of category c have been turned away. the leaflets handed out by dept are a waste of time if inspectors arn't following the policy themselves

Green farmer

razor8 wrote: »

most would be fed indoors at this stage & pick up dirt from climbing on each other or getting meal in a muddy field because of all the rain.

That sums it up perfectly. There’s only a few ways they can be finished and the margins aren’t there to do it any other way.

Lano Lynn

having lambs or cattle clean for slaughter while not always easy does make sense not like the QA bull**** unfortunatly it just feels like another stick to beat us with.

paddysdream

Heard Kepak Athleague suspended killing today due to CLP and difficulties with its implementation.
Now lets see who blinks first,Dept or factories.
Only problem is that eventually the bureaucracy and the cost will fall to the softest target in the line and no prizes for guessing who that will be.

wrangler

paddysdream wrote: »

Heard Kepak Athleague suspended killing today due to CLP and difficulties with its implementation.
Now lets see who blinks first,Dept or factories.
Only problem is that eventually the bureaucracy and the cost will fall to the softest target in the line and no prizes for guessing who that will be.

IFA meeting the department today, hopefully someone will see sense

kk.man

The big mantra of 'see all the jobs we create in rural areas' works every time. Only one winner in this game.

Lambman

Haven't sent lambs till factory in a wile but got contract shearing lambs bellys back ends and necks today for a farmer nearby is this what it has come till? I'd a clipped the whole fleece as quick as that tidying up but he wreckons he'd get cut in factory if I took all fleece off?

grassroot1

Have ewes to kill currently feeding on rape whats the current situation in the factory? Will they be sent home if dirty?

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

Have ewes to kill currently feeding on rape whats the current situation in the factory? Will they be sent home if dirty?

Yes. Or there may be a local arrangement of someone to clip them for you in the hope that makes them acceptable.

Neddyusa

Lambman wrote: »

Haven't sent lambs till factory in a wile but got contract shearing lambs bellys back ends and necks today for a farmer nearby is this what it has come till? I'd a clipped the whole fleece as quick as that tidying up but he wreckons he'd get cut in factory if I took all fleece off?

That's the thing.

This time last year Factory agent was giving me guff about bringing him shorn hoggets....they can't have it both ways!

wrangler

Neddyusa wrote: »

That's the thing.

This time last year Factory agent was giving me guff about bringing him shorn hoggets....they can't have it both ways!

Factories don't want them shorn, a shorn sheepskin isn't much good, There are times that the sheep skin is worth up to 40c/kg on the price of the lamb. Factories want sheep clean and crutched and the belly shorn, that's all :rolleyes:.
Apparently this has been going on in England for years.
I imagine department vets would like them shorn alright.
We have to work with the system now

Green farmer

Was in the factory last week. When booking them in the day before I told them that some of my sheep might need clipping.they were dirty around tail end. They arranged for a shearer turn up in factory to clip. Cost me €1 a head. They don’t want dirty sheep but can handle a certain amount each day provided you let them know beforehand. Meant the sheep took an hour longer to go through the system, but they did and I left with cheque in pocket.

Lambman

Green farmer wrote: »

Was in the factory last week. When booking them in the day before I told them that some of my sheep might need clipping.they were dirty around tail end. They arranged for a shearer turn up in factory to clip. Cost me €1 a head. They don’t want dirty sheep but can handle a certain amount each day provided you let them know beforehand. Meant the sheep took an hour longer to go through the system, but they did and I left with cheque in pocket.

I wouldn't clip lambs tails bellys and up the neck for €1 a sheep till be honest even if your getting big numbers... 2 people clipping and 1 man catching and bagging might make it pay... but till catch yourself clip and bag €1 isn't much good... getting €1.60 per lamb shearing for a lamb finisher.. that's taking whole fleece off.