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Child Item

I like the Prequels.

Hector Savage

I like the Prequels.

Shoot me.

Here are two great articles:

https://reelrundown.com/movies/8-Reasons-the-Star-Wars-Prequels-Dont-Suck

https://observationdeck.kinja.com/5-things-the-star-wars-prequels-did-right-1624100988

I have bookmarked these as future exhibits whilst defending the prequels.

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TerrorFirmer

I like them too but they are massively flawed and dogged by atrocious scripting and performances.

On the plus side:

1) Worldbuilding is absolutely excellent, yards ahead of TFA and TLJ

2) Scale and scope of galaxy-wide conflict captured well within the trilogy

3) Musical scores are the business

4) Some individual superb memorable scenes better than anything in TFA/TLJ (eg Duel of the Fates)

david75

Theres loads and loads to love in the prequels.

david75

No redeeming features for you at all Tony?
If star wars is one of the greatest contributions to cinema and culture, the prequels/story of Anakin becoming Vader has to be one of the biggest screw ups ever in all cinema. It should and could have been so amazing.

But there is a whole lot of good stuff in them too If you look.

*wont ask have you only seen them the once

I wouldn’t blame you anyways.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

david75

jacksie66 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Simon Pegg edit all 3 of them into 1 movie and it was supposed to be excellent..

I heard that and went looking for one but all I can find are the harmy editions and various others. I’ve never watched any of the edits.

Peggy is a super fan so it would be cool to see his take as a filmmaker

Slydice

This trailer is Mandatory viewing before watching The Clone Wars

I must've rewatched that about 50 times the night it came out.
and maybe the 3 seconds 0:26-0:28 about 50 more.

also this wouldn't hurt:

Drumpot

I loved ROTS. I also thought emperor palpatine was superb throughout. McDiarmaid played a blinder and his fighting , when it finally came, was epic. I loved the fight in the Senate and the interaction with Yoda....

Slydice

Drumpot wrote: »

I loved ROTS. I also thought emperor palpatine was superb throughout. McDiarmaid played a blinder and his fighting , when it finally came, was epic. I loved the fight in the Senate and the interaction with Yoda....

Not to mention the Intro scene!

The Drums! BOM-BOM .. BOM-BOM .. BOM-BOM
and then
BOOM! EPIC SPACE WAR!

Gbear

We now have 5 canon distinct series to contrast different styles and levels of quality in Star Wars, leaving the individual films to one side.

2 animated series and 3 trilogies.

By and large, I think 3 of them are good.
Without wanting to get into taste or whether people like cartoons, I think from the standpoint of the quality of production and cohesiveness of vision, the OT, Rebels and The Clone Wars are all good.

In those you had the creative vision of Lucas with technical aspects mostly delegated to very talented individuals.

Then there's the other 2.

With the Prequels, you have the vision of George, and I think that vision is really impressive in scope, it often shows a great visual flair, it comprises, for all the stick it gets, a really intricate but accessible plot that pretty much believably gets you from the Republic to the Empire and from a birds eye view I think it makes for a good framework of a story.

The Sequels have accomplished technicians at the helm directing good actors well, producing great effects and set pieces, there's a bit of charm to the writing and it's generally a bit of fun.

Each of those two lacks what the other has.
George Lucas isn't much of a director and he doesn't really have much of a sense of humour or taste. There's a lack of humanity in his work that translates his vision into things that people can parse.
JJ Abrams is utterly without vision as a director. I'm not convinced that he has any long-term memory or an attention span. Has he ever made anything that isn't completely dumb?

In the case of the prequels, someone with a better grasp of the minutia of drama, of the technical limitations of making a film, with a sense of taste in the material given to actors and how they use it would've avoided the mistakes in production and how they impacted the story on a more general level.
They would've seen the problems of casting a child actor as Anakin, of the sheer boringness of the poo jokes in such quantity, of how annoying Jar Jar is.
The wastage in creating a character like Maul, who shows such promise and is then discarded, is criminal, and as a result you get the jankiness of throwing in new villains out of nowhere without giving them worldbuilding support or motivations that make them compelling (Dooku, Grievous are essentially props, which is fine so long as there's a clearer antagonist actively anagonising the whole time, but Palpatine is too indirect a threat until 5/6 of the way through the story).

The technical filmmaking shortfall makes an absolute mess out of the central character and all his relationships - Padme, Obi-Wan, his Mother, Palpatine, the Jedi Council. I'm not sure there are any bad actors in the prequels but the performances are nearly all crap. Even Ian McDiarmid. He needs to chew the scenery. It goes too far and becomes ridiculous.
There's nothing wrong in theory with the sense of power shown by the force, the agility of Yoda or whatever, but when you see what you get on screen with a ridiculous bouncing midget, then you have to be able to say "we can't do this justice" and go back to the drawing board.

None of these are in isolation the evidence of someone who's broadly clueless however, they show a lack of someone who could look at the detail, curb some excesses, pick up on things that were missing, or wouldn't work.

For a long time I consigned George Lucas to the dustbin of cinema history and was delighted he'd been essentially forced out, but I've come to realise with the Sequels that there needs to be someone who understands and believes in the world and can glue all the bits together.

The MCU is a far less ambitious and far-reaching project in tems of worldbuilding, with a much clearer pre-built canon to draw on, but even so, without the vision of Kevin Feige the whole thing would be an incoherent mess.
Filoni is doing that with animation and maybe the story team is starting to find their feet, but either there is nobody there for the main series, or there wasn't anyone when they rushed out the Force Awakens, thus crippling the entire thing.

It's become popular to **** on the Prequels in their entirety, with the likes of Red Letter Media and the What if Star Wars Was Good? series of critiques of youtube, and they raise some solid criticisms of how they're made, but anytime I see people try to rejig the story they largely fail.

TL; DR,
Lucas had a great vision what they should be but lacked the skills to make that a reality, or the touch to know when the vision ran up against bad taste or technical limitations and needed to be altered.

Eps 1 and 3 could be redone by a different production team with fairly great results with a few minor structural tweaks.
Attack of the Clones is irredeemable garbage and something different would be needed between the two others.

Huntergonzo

I used to love Star Wars as a child, my older brother bought me 4, 5 and 6 on video one year for christmas and I had Shadows of the Empire on the N64 which I loved.

I was 11 when The Phantom Menace came out but I have to admit, I thought it was shít even then, poor story, annoying child actor, plagued with CGI and of course Jar Jar Binks among other problems. It was such a wasted opportunity, it could have been so much better.

Attack of the Clones, is the worst Star Wars film for me, it's deplorable from start to finish, an excruciating watch. Revenge of the Sith I found just about passable maybe 4/10 or 5/10.

But that's just my opinion, it's each to their own, if you enjoy them then fairplay.

faceman

This thread is disgusting. OP banner and thread locked!

The prequels are dreadful with no redeeming qualities. There is no prequel that is better than then other 2, it’s all awful

david75

IT would be interesting to see them not remade but have the story of Anakin retold. Could be epic.

chuckbass

jacksie66 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Simon Pegg edit all 3 of them into 1 movie and it was supposed to be excellent..

I thought that was supposed to be Topher Grace from That 70's show? I'd imagine he's have a lot more time on his hands than Simon Pegg anyway!

Never a massive fan of the prequels mainly due to the retina searing amount of CGI battles, but always had a soft spot for TPM, if you get over JarJar and the trade senate stuff its a good old yarn.

The worldbuilding as mentioned is fantastic, and the fact Lucas wanted to move them into a different setting/aestethic is really showing up well now given how much the new trilogy just leapfrog off the original trilogy in terms of look and feel.

Gbear

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://reelrundown.com/movies/8-Reasons-the-Star-Wars-Prequels-Dont-Suck

This article isn't great. The other one is grand.

The person who wrote it does not, IMO, understand Sci-Fi or Star Wars very well.

In the originals we don't really see Yoda do a lot of fighting. He's more of a wise old hermit, sharing his knowledge of the Force to a trusted pupil before gracefully fading out of existence. To see him in his prime, doing a lot of actual fighting, especially the way he fiercely stands up to Anakin, is a treat for the audience. (Also on a personal side note, since I'm short I like to see short guys/gals that kick ass.) Yoda became one of the best characters in Soul Caliber 4 after his revival in the prequels, before that he was an old wise magical mentor dude, in the prequels he's gone from supporting character to a vital part of the main cast.

I take issue with this, as with people who suggest Luke didn't kick enough arse in TLJ.
It's almost like having a monastic order dedicated to peace showing the wisdom in facing your problems without violence and saying things like "wars not make one great" and then having them jumping around kicking people's heads in shows some kind of incongruity.

Also, talking about Yoda brings me to the mitochlorians controversy. I think explaining the Force using microscopic organisms is actually a good thing because in science fiction, unusual powers should have a scientific explanation.

One thing I didn't like about The Force was how simplistic it was; it was either good or evil and it boiled down to magic, which I don't believe has a place in sci-fi land. It seemed like a religion only where praying actually did something. I think it was weird in the originals how so many people didn't believe The Force even existed until they were being strangled by it. I mean, it's possible that Vader suppressed the knowledge of it and the Jedi because dictators have a tendency to delete things from history and general knowledge when they prove inconvenient. However, this doesn't make a lot of sense because Vader then uses the Force gratuitously to punish insubordination. He seems to be telling people that the Force is a myth so they don't try to use it to defeat him on one hand, and hurting anyone in the same room as him with it the next?

Star Wars isn't Sci-fi, so there's one problem resolved. It's a fantasy story set in a futuristic, sci-fi setting. The mechanism of the story isn't a sci-fi one.
Generally, Sci-fi is about showing the impact of a technology or the future status of a society and then placing characters within that to ask questions of that setting and the technology that defines it.

Nothing like that happens in Star Wars. Tech is used purely for aesthetic reasons and there is little or no exploration of its use in terms of morality. The setting is built to echo historic settings, like Nazi Germany, or the fall of Rome, and not to look forward to what might become of us.

The Force was magic. It had some sort of defined systems, but it's closer kin to the magic of the Lord of the Rings than it was to usual psychic fare or ESP you find in sci-fi.

Most science fiction movies are defined by the worlds they create: Avatar without Pandora would be another unoriginal movie about Indians, Logan's Run had us envision people living in a gigantic dome, The Matrix imagines a world where humanity makes one desperate last stand against mechanical dictators who control us, body and mind. Without the sets these great movies would be well, kind of ****ty, and not really sci-fi as we understand it.

Avatar with or without Pandora is just another unorginal movie about Indians.
The setting doesn't make any difference. It's about capitalism and imperialism, really, and while visually distinct, the story doesn't change if you drop it back into 1700s USA vs Native Americans.
The core issue of who someone is, the ghost in the machine and all that, are a minor element of the plot. It's a plot device used to give the main character a reason to switch sides.

The Matrix, by its nature, asks more fundamental questions, from whether or not we're in a simulation, and what that means for experiences, memories, happiness, values and so on.
It asks questions of the proliferation of robotics and AI.

The plot could be extracted as messiah being freed from brutal regime, then infiltrating regime to ultimately bring them down or force a stalemate so both sides can live, but that tells you little enough about the story and cuts it off from the broader questions it asks.

david75

Something being doubled down on in TLJ and people seem to be missing or have always missed, The force isn’t some super power to be used to save the day. It’s much more an intangible element within everything.
Yodas description of it in Empire is pretty much everything it is boiled down to a few sentences. Surrounds us. Binds us. Luminous beings are we etc.

Tony EH

What the prequels needed more than anything else was a "no" man to guide Lucas away from his most egregious rabbit holes. Rick McCallum was never going to be that man.

The story may be there, somewhat, but nothing else is. They're plagued with terrible acting, woeful decisions, dreadful CGI (even for the time) and a penchant for inserting the most unnecessary fan service I've seen in any film.

The parts that are entertaining aren't enough to stem the tide of awfulness. Neeson as Qui-Gon-Jin was probably the best thing about them. Followed closely by McDiarmid (when he isn't hamming the crap out of the set). McGregor's ok as a young Obi-Wan, but his attempt at a posh English accent is too annoying at times. Portman is pretty, but that's all. The less said about Christensen, the better. Pretty much everything else is completely wretched and they are responsible for destroying Star Wars (as a film venture) for over a decade. It really became a broken franchise. It's impossible to truly gauge the damage they do to the story as a whole.

I've seen numerous cuts of all three and while some faneditors do their best - one great edit had all the alien races dubbed with "alien languages", including Jar Jar - there's just too much bad crap involved to truly remedy these films and they still end up lessening the original trilogy, no matter how hard people try.

Having the likes of C3PO and R2D2 in the mix was an astonishing decision. Made even more so by having Darth Vader BUILD C3PO AS A CHILD! :eek: Not only that, he flies around with R2D2 as well. I mean, really.

The whole backstory of Boba Fett is just cringy. A non-entity in a bit of cool armour - and that's all he had to ever be - is now a Kiwi, whose dad was the template for the Clone Army. That's something a 10 year old boy would have written.

Yoda should never pick up a light sabre. The very idea is one of the most laughable things imaginable.

The ages of the characters, too, are a problem. In 'Star Wars' both Obi-Wan and Vader are in their old age. They're relics, one's a hermit and the other a bit of a joke in Imperial circles. They're symbols of something nobody believes in any more. But, both Obi-Wan and Vader are too young in 'Revenge of the Sith' for their characters to line up convincingly in 'Star Wars' 20 years later. It just doesn't gel.

Plus, the Jedi are in complete control in the same film. But, just 20 years later, nobody remembers them or believes in the Force? That's unbelievably stupid. It's just 20 fucking years ago!!!

In addition, that whole "chosen one" shite, medichlorians and miracle birth stuff should have hit the floor of the writing office. It would have been so much better if Qui-Gon had met Anakin when he was 16 and living with his mother (not on Tatooine) in poverty (not slavery). Anakin uses his ability as a pod racer to try and get a few bob together to get offworld. Somewhere along the line shit goes down and Shimi is killed (not by Sandpeople) and Anakin agrees to go with Qui-Gon to the Jedi council, who are merely advisors to the Republic and a shadow of what they were, to see if he can be trained. Over the course of the next couple of films, Anakin's fall to the darkside should be more gradual and not the silly about face we see in 'Revenge of the Sith'. We should see the Clone Wars and the devastation it wrought on the galaxy, instead of skipping it.

At the end of the day, there are just far too many things wrong with these films to list off here and it always comes down to the fact that Star Wars, as a story, is ENHANCED if you leave the prequels out of your viewing.

People can say what they like about the sequels. I'm not that mad about them myself and have much to criticise them on. But, the prequels are simply an enbarrassment to every fan.

Drumpot

Wow, a Star Wars thread about somebody looking to say they liked the prequels and wouldn’t you know, who arrives to make sure people know what they think of it...You know Tony, you are entitled to not ruin every Star Wars thread with all the things that you think are wrong with anything but the originals!

storker

My daughters got into Star Wars when they were 10 and 8, i think, after seeing a bit of the original on Sky, so I showed them them the box sets, warning them to watch IV, V and VI first. After they'd watched the lot I said something like, "OK so the prequels are a bit rubbish..." and I was swiftly put in my place. "We like those too. Don't say anything bad about them."

(I think all the Star Wars movies are marred by far too much intrusive background music, the prequels in particular.)

david75

Slightly OT but worth a watch. A trailer for one of the extras on the TLJ home release. The doco is called Balance of the force. It’s really really good and explains why luke sees the Jedi went about it all wrong and he finally knows he should have listened to Yoda. By going to bespin he put all his friends in jeopardy and knows if he comes back now that darkness will rise to balance out his coming. So not engaging and acting as the galaxys police force or superhero as the Jedi did, is actually better for everyone

Excellent doco here’s a clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNje_YmkWq4

david75

storker wrote: »

My daughters got into Star Wars when they were 10 and 8, i think, after seeing a bit of the original on Sky, so I showed them them the box sets, warning them to watch IV, V and VI first. After they'd watched the lot I said something like, "OK so the prequels are a bit rubbish..." and I was swiftly put in my place. "We like those too. Don't say anything bad about them."

(I think all the Star Wars movies are marred by far too much intrusive background music, the prequels in particular.)

There’s an massive entire generation out there and their Star Wars is the prequels. That’s their Buzz. As evidenced by your daughters.
There’s some amazing music in the prequels and some of Williams best but a lot of it is overbearing too.

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

Wow, a Star Wars thread about somebody looking to say they liked the prequels and wouldn’t you know, who arrives to make sure people know what they think of it...You know Tony, you are entitled to not ruin every Star Wars thread with all the things that you think are wrong with anything but the originals!

:pac:

Go and cry somewhere else.

The prequels were shit.

But, if Hector wants to enjoy them, he can.

Drumpot

Tony EH wrote: »

:pac:

Go and cry somewhere else.

The prequels were shit.

But, if Hector wants to enjoy them, he can.

We only have to suffer your repetitive, predictable misguided waffle here, but you are stuck with it constantly. I forget how much effort you put into putting down all SW movies that aren’t the originals and that you think your opinion is not subjective whining.

You obviously need outlets to vent.... please continue to spoil any positive discusions people try to have on this topic.... I’m sure everybody’s happy you bring so much of ... you to your posts ....

Tony EH

You're making a show of yourself.

This is a public forum, where people air their views on various matters. If you're not capable to handle that, I suggest you go somewhere else.

david75

You should start a Star Wars Greivances thread. One stop shop for all complaints. That could be a cool debate forum.
I have often wondered why people who don’t like something spend such vast amounts of time venting and complaining about it. And with enough word count to fill libraries. And then call anyone who does enjoy the films blind fanbois and by extension, having a less valid opinion.

It’s just Star Wars. Someone else’s rant or opinion is not worth getting all that worked up about. I speak from experience

Drumpot

Tony EH wrote: »

You're making a show of yourself.

This is a public forum, where people air their views on various matters. If you're not capable to handle that, I suggest you go somewhere else.

You are correct , this is a public forum. People are allowed to be fed up with your repetitive whinging and are allowed to express it.

It’s not really your place to tell anybody to go anywhere but I suppose it’s not surprising that somebody who Thinks their opinion is fact would think that....

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

You are correct , this is a public forum. People are allowed to be fed up with your repetitive whinging and are allowed to express it.

It’s not really your place to tell anybody to go anywhere but I suppose it’s not surprising that somebody who Thinks their opinion is fact would think that....

If you can't handle the fact that somebody has a different opinion than you on something as trivial as movies, well then that's on you.

People are going to have various opinions on matters here. If you can't handle that, you're in the wrong place.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

You should start a Star Wars Greivances thread. One stop shop for all complaints. That could be a cool debate forum.
I have often wondered why people who don’t like something spend such vast amounts of time venting and complaining about it. And with enough word count to fill libraries. And then call anyone who does enjoy the films blind fanbois and by extension, having a less valid opinion.

It’s just Star Wars. Someone else’s rant or opinion is not worth getting all that worked up about. I speak from experience

I agree and I can assure you, there's no "getting all that worked up" on this end.

What I've never understood is people getting their knickers in a twist because someone on the internet has a different opinon than the one they hold.

That, frankly, is just pathetic.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

I agree and I can assure you, there's no "getting all that worked up" on this end.

What I've never understood is people getting their knickers in a twist because someone on the internet has a different opinon than the one they hold.

That, frankly, is just pathetic.

To be completely fair being constantly insistent that your opinion is the only one that matters is also a bit pathetic. We both have previous on that Tony. Mine is usually about canon but yours is about your opinion.

**** this. Can we not just be cool and talk Star Wars? What we do like rather than complaining??

Drumpot

Tony EH wrote: »

If you can't handle the fact that somebody has a different opinion than you on something as trivial as movies, well then that's on you.

People are going to have various opinions on matters here. If you can't handle that, you're in the wrong place.

That’s called projecting Tony, let me explain what that is in your case.

You came to a thread where a person started a thread about movies they liked and you insulted them. Your First post was a picture suggesting they should shoot themself and then share a personal opinion that the movies the OP likes are embarrassments to fans. You say this As if you speak for everybody. Then you accuse me of not being able to accept or respect other peoples opinions which you clearly don’t.

Vladimir Poontang

The prequels are objectively awful