Off Topic Thread 4.0

Bazzo wrote: »

He claimed to RTE news the only contact he had with anyone over the matter was with Failte Ireland and he misremembered. We'll find out soon enough I suppose because I can't see it just quietly going away at this point.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/974740979768012801?s=19

Yes he’s changed the story pretty dramatically now. But I suspect you’re right. If he has just made up the story then it’s a very, very silly problem to have created for himself.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is an email tin Failte Ireland, which no one was ever talking about.

But the fact he tells them he had committed to helping Trump before he ever spoke to them is exactly why this needs to be reviewed in the Dail.

He claimed to RTE news the only contact he had with anyone over the matter was with Failte Ireland and he misremembered. We'll find out soon enough I suppose because I can't see it just quietly going away at this point.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/974740979768012801?s=19

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ha! You're backtracking in the wrong direction there IBF...

I’m not backtracking at all

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is an email tin Failte Ireland, which no one was ever talking about.

But the fact he tells them he had committed to helping Trump before he ever spoke to them is exactly why this needs to be reviewed in the Dail.

Ha! You're backtracking in the wrong direction there IBF...

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is an email tin Failte Ireland, which no one was ever talking about.

But the fact he tells them he had committed to helping Trump before he ever spoke to them is exactly why this needs to be reviewed in the Dail.

Eh? He committed to asking Bord Faulty if they would review and see if they shared his concerns. So the only commitment was to ask them to have a look at it. Hardly inappropriate. He didn't commit to any outcome.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely shocking alright. Just saw this on twitter, here is the 'email' Leo sent to Failte Ireland

Thankfully no one on here jumped to any conclusions.

This is an email tin Failte Ireland, which no one was ever talking about.

But the fact he tells them he had committed to helping Trump before he ever spoke to them is exactly why this needs to be reviewed in the Dail.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The council have come out and said it is very very uncommon. So yes, it is absolutely shocking.

Absolutely shocking alright. Just saw this on twitter, here is the 'email' Leo sent to Failte Ireland

Thankfully no one on here jumped to any conclusions.

pickarooney

Do you think he slipped up there or was it deliberate?

Neil3030

Heaslip's article on the Player's Chronicle reminded me a lot of the garbled nonsense Gavin Cummiskey recently wrote when reviewing a Leinster match. And I see that the latter even retweeted a link to the article... Ghost writer, I wonder...

Zzippy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what gave it away?

On balance, the minister thing. I kind of addressed that subtly. I think.

Zzippy

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you're being facetious, but just in case, the answer is you talk to the guy you know. And who knows the planners.

Out of curiosity, what gave it away?

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why would you bother with a county councillor in the appropriate county... would you not just call the Minister? Or do you not have his number?

I think you're being facetious, but just in case, the answer is you talk to the guy you know. And who knows the planners.

mfceiling

pickarooney wrote: »

Is there any reason I cannot award the permission?

"Pickarooney there is no reason I can give you for you not to give the permission".

"So I can award the permission"

"I cannot see Leo giving the permission so therefore I cannot give you any reason for you not to give the permission"

pickarooney

prawnsambo wrote: »

Does this not depend on what Leo was asked?

If he was asked a simple "what's the story, is planning going to be approved?", which question he then put to the CC, then it's hardly worth getting our knickers in a twist over.

If on the other hand it's "Can this be stopped?" which then was translated to the CC as "Can you stop this?", then we are indeed not talking about normal politics.

Is there any reason I cannot award the permission?

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, I would have been involved in planning applications in the past and asked councillors to find out which way the wind was blowing. If you can get a heads up on extra information being required, you can speed up the application by submitting it before it's asked for. Otherwise, you get the 'clock' reset and the application can drag on.

Pretty normal stuff because councillors have much better access to planners than Joe Public.

Why would you bother with a county councillor in the appropriate county... would you not just call the Minister? Or do you not have his number?

sydthebeat wrote: »

i work in the private sector but deal with planners and planning applications everyday.

politicians inquiring about, or making representations on, a planning application isnt commonplace, but not at all unusual.
generally if they are requested to by an external party they will representations on behalf of them, most generally pro the application, but somethings anti.

at the end of the day, the board of councillors is the planners boss, and the councillors will have more direct access to a planner than joe public.

personally i dont find it unusual that the minister for tourism would contact a county council to inquire about a planning application that may have an effect on in a high tourism area. The planner may have informed the minister during that phone call that the application would be refused and/or the minister may have requested that the impact on tourism be more strenuously tested.

i would have my doubts that, post crash and planning tribunals, a minister would have been so forward as to demand a refusal.

There isn't necessarily a problem with politicians making enquiries about planning applications. That's not the problem. In fact it's an important part of the job for many of them I'm sure.

What is hugely important though is that we are aware of who has access to our politicians, what they are requesting, how those requests are handled, and what their future relationship with those politicians then is. If we don't get a handle on that then we'll lose control of them.

In Westminster there's an absolutely incredible number of people leaving the public sector into extremely suspicious and extremely lucrative employment and it's a massive mess to untangle that, which the establishment parties are unwilling to undertake (for obvious enough reasons!), behind the child abuse scandal its probably the 2nd biggest mess they're sweeping under their rug. Look up the evidence that Richard Brooks gave to the commons select committee on that if you're interested. Obviously America is even worse but I'd hesitate to even call that a government any more.

We can't have a situation where foreign billionaires are able to call our government ministers, potentially influence their actions and leave no record. And we certainly shouldn't be letting our taoiseach bring it up as a humorous anecdote (although luckily he isn't getting away with it). Who knows how many of these special requests are being made and how many of them are being rejected or acquiesced, let alone how many of them influence future relationships between elected officials and the private sector. I'd say the likes of Rupert Murdoch's ears pricked right up when they heard this story.

sydthebeat wrote: »

i work in the private sector but deal with planners and planning applications everyday.

politicians inquiring about, or making representations on, a planning application isnt commonplace, but not at all unusual.
generally if they are requested to by an external party they will representations on behalf of them, most generally pro the application, but somethings anti.

at the end of the day, the board of councillors is the planners boss, and the councillors will have more direct access to a planner than joe public.

personally i dont find it unusual that the minister for tourism would contact a county council to inquire about a planning application that may have an effect on in a high tourism area. The planner may have informed the minister during that phone call that the application would be refused and/or the minister may have requested that the impact on tourism be more strenuously tested.

i would have my doubts that, post crash and planning tribunals, a minister would have been so forward as to demand a refusal.

Yeah, I would have been involved in planning applications in the past and asked councillors to find out which way the wind was blowing. If you can get a heads up on extra information being required, you can speed up the application by submitting it before it's asked for. Otherwise, you get the 'clock' reset and the application can drag on.

Pretty normal stuff because councillors have much better access to planners than Joe Public.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Almost as big a problem as people rushing to judgement without a whiff of the facts.

Certainly didn’t stop you!

sydthebeat

i work in the private sector but deal with planners and planning applications everyday.

politicians inquiring about, or making representations on, a planning application isnt commonplace, but not at all unusual.
generally if they are requested to by an external party they will representations on behalf of them, most generally pro the application, but somethings anti.

at the end of the day, the board of councillors is the planners boss, and the councillors will have more direct access to a planner than joe public.

personally i dont find it unusual that the minister for tourism would contact a county council to inquire about a planning application that may have an effect on in a high tourism area. The planner may have informed the minister during that phone call that the application would be refused and/or the minister may have requested that the impact on tourism be more strenuously tested.

i would have my doubts that, post crash and planning tribunals, a minister would have been so forward as to demand a refusal.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The council have come out and said it is very very uncommon. So yes, it is absolutely shocking.

Link please.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is a major problem in Ireland,

Almost as big a problem as people rushing to judgement without a whiff of the facts.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The council have come out and said it is very very uncommon. So yes, it is absolutely shocking.

I'm not seeing this anywhere.

There is even confusion as to whether Leo actually spoke to anyone and that it may have been one of his staff who made the inquiry.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This says a lot more about where you are coming from than it does about what Leo may or may not have done / said.

That letter was because local authorities were openly discussing planning applications in committee. Neither Trump nor Leo were making a planning application. You have absolutely no clue what Leo said or who he said it to nor in what context. It's becoming apparent what you would like to think happened, and I'm prepared to join you in outrage if he made any demands of the local council, but his candour on the subject suggests that this isn't the case.

Public elected officials can’t discuss it at public events, but you’ve no issue with a government minister discussing and potentially influencing planning decisions with overseas billionaires in private with absolutely no record?

This is a major problem in Ireland, people sycophantically unwilling to criticize or expect decent behavior from public officials. We’re sprinting headfirst into the exact same public/private disaster that Hislop and the PE uncovered in Westminster if this sort of behavior isn’t squashed and the people responsible for representing our government to the private sector aren’t held accountable every time they roll over and ask for treats.

ClanofLams

Without getting into the rights/wrongs of it, it was incredibly ill advised for Varadkar to say it, inevitable there would be uproar. Enda Kenny had plenty of knockers but you would be a long time waiting for him to make such an unforced error.

stephen_n wrote: »

I’m sure he wasn’t, nor did he ever claim that either. You’d want to be careful these wind farms don’t blow over all your strawmen!

The minister for tourism making enquires on behalf of a company directly involved in tourism in the region, absolutely shocking behavior.

The council have come out and said it is very very uncommon. So yes, it is absolutely shocking.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah yes I’m sure he was instructed to call the board in order to voice Trumps overwhelming support for the project. Good man.

This says a lot more about where you are coming from than it does about what Leo may or may not have done / said.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I suppose it was always going to turn out that the Housing Minister instructed that a letter should be sent out last week to remind everyone that elected officials shouldn’t be discussing planning applications only for the Taoiseach to brag about doing it the following week. Great joined up thinking there!

That letter was because local authorities were openly discussing planning applications in committee. Neither Trump nor Leo were making a planning application. You have absolutely no clue what Leo said or who he said it to nor in what context. It's becoming apparent what you would like to think happened, and I'm prepared to join you in outrage if he made any demands of the local council, but his candour on the subject suggests that this isn't the case.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah yes I’m sure he was instructed to call the board in order to voice Trumps overwhelming support for the project. Good man.

I suppose it was always going to turn out that the Housing Minister instructed that a letter should be sent out last week to remind everyone that elected officials shouldn’t be discussing planning applications only for the Taoiseach to brag about doing it the following week. Great joined up thinking there!

I’m sure he wasn’t, nor did he ever claim that either. You’d want to be careful these wind farms don’t blow over all your strawmen!

The minister for tourism making enquires on behalf of a company directly involved in tourism in the region, absolutely shocking behavior.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Improved battery technology is the gold standard I suppose. I presume the pump storage facility you mentioned is Turlough Hill?

Yes indeed.

I'm sure you've seen the massive battery installation Tesla did in Australia. I guess something like that? I don't know how efficient or how many charging cycles they can survive. It all comes down to cost.

stephen_n wrote: »

No I think you are the one just making up stuff, because Leo never said he opposed it, he made enquires and was quite clear that he didn’t believe he had any impact on the outcome. For someone who doesn’t like people misrepresenting what he says, you’re fairly good at it yourself.

Ah yes I’m sure he was instructed to call the board in order to voice Trumps overwhelming support for the project. Good man.

I suppose it was always going to turn out that the Housing Minister instructed that a letter should be sent out last week to remind everyone that elected officials shouldn’t be discussing planning applications only for the Taoiseach to brag about doing it the following week. Great joined up thinking there!