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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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lifeandtimes

listermint wrote: »

Bitcoin is the epitome of a get rich scheme, The only reason it become so popular is the fear of missing out.

There will be books written on how its a fine example of get rich quick scheme,

Nearly 10 years wouldn't be considered a get rich quick scheme

lifeandtimes

Bob24 wrote: »

I don't think you read/understood my post fully. I did not say none of the coins are being used, although this is what you seem to have understood. Also the fact that coins value is purely based on popular consensus to make them redeemable at that value and not due to intrinsic value - indeed just like fiat currency as I had mentioned as well - is precisely why they can't be treated like stocks as I explained.

Apologise I did misread

listermint

grindle wrote: »

"epitome"? It's missing the calling cards of a get rich quick scheme tbh. Get rich quick schemes guarantee reward. When people lose interest in the idea it can just as easily be pegged as a get poor scheme, so I don't see how it can be viewed as the epitome of a get rich scheme.
BTC only guarantees you a place in the ledger after purchasing, whether or not you get rewarded with higher purchasing power depends on adoption.

No you are wrong, Get rich schemes never guarantee reward.

There is an implied guarantee of reward hence its coined 'a scheme'

Your definition is loose at best.

The description of a pyramid is apt in most quarters for Bitcoin trading and people will fight tooth and nail for people to not sell their shares, Its paramount that huge amount of adopters come in and stay. The huge push and the abbreviations on social media platforms and forums is a shining example of that.

If your not in you cant win...

If your not in you cant lose either.

seannash

listermint wrote: »

The description of a pyramid is apt in most quarters for Bitcoin trading and people will fight tooth and nail for people to not sell their shares, Its paramount that huge amount of adopters come in and stay. The huge push and the abbreviations on social media platforms and forums is a shining example of that.

Would you not have the same argument on any stock forums online. People advising others not to sell, its a dip/correction.

listermint

seannash wrote: »

Would you not have the same argument on any stock forums online. People advising others not to sell, its a dip/correction.

They are heavily regulated from top to bottom and have alot of compliance involved so no.

And you have to agree part of the large attraction of the Bit coin trading is the subversion of the regulation

seannash

listermint wrote: »

They are heavily regulated from top to bottom and have alot of compliance involved so no.

And you have to agree part of the large attraction of the Bit coin trading is the subversion of the regulation

Sorry I was talking about people discussing and promoting stocks online. I'm sure right now on large online forums telling people you'd be foolish to ditch boeing stock right now.
I guess we can split this into people who believe Crypto currencies will be adopted eventually as a form of payment and those who dont. Some very smart people have come out in support of bitcoin, some with no vested interest in it.

grindle

listermint wrote: »

The description of a pyramid is apt in most quarters for Bitcoin trading and people will fight tooth and nail for people to not sell their shares, Its paramount that huge amount of adopters come in and stay. The huge push and the abbreviations on social media platforms and forums is a shining example of that.

If your not in you cant win...

If your not in you cant lose either.

:rolleyes:
Dragging the auld pyramid out, cripes.
Where's the implied guarantee of a reward for users beyond space on the chain coming from?
Is it in the whitepaper or mentioned on the Core site? You have read the whitepaper, yes? You wouldn't talk out your hole without doing basic research, would you?
Taken directly from bitcoin.org:

Weird. Doesn't read like something which aims to help people get rich quick. Reads like something which says "could go up or down, don't be an asshat"
What do you think Bitcoin's purpose is or was from it's beginnings?
There's no other reason you could possibly imagine for adoption to be paramount? Nothing beyond getting rich? Then don't buy it.

listermint

grindle wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Dragging the auld pyramid out, cripes.
Where's the implied guarantee of a reward for users beyond space on the chain coming from?
Is it in the whitepaper or mentioned on the Core site? You have read the whitepaper, yes? You wouldn't talk out your hole without doing basic research, would you?
Taken directly from bitcoin.org:

Weird. Doesn't read like something which aims to help people get rich quick. Reads like something which says "could go up or down, don't be an asshat"
What do you think Bitcoin's purpose is or was from it's beginnings?
There's no other reason you could possibly imagine for adoption to be paramount? Nothing beyond getting rich? Then don't buy it.

Yes because this particular forum was relying on white papers for reasoning.

Ok then..... :eek:

Pintman Paddy Losty

Smyths are doing a deal on lambos for any of the shrewd day traders here who've continued to hodl this long.

Tinder Surprise

*slow clap

grindle

listermint wrote: »

Yes because this particular forum was relying on white papers for reasoning.

Ok then..... :eek:

:pac:
People speculate when they invest money in anything, hence crazy moontalk and throwing money senselessly at dire projects - much the same as the Irish are dumb hoors for property to the point of breaking the country's kneecaps (and we're at it again right now ffs!).
Nothing you're saying gives credence to the "get rich quick scheme" idea you have floating in your head, it more points towards frivolous gambling, a lack of prudence on the part of the speculators.

This current crash is devastating to newbs who've bought in the last few months (oh god, them "first crash" feels!) and it's not going to be the last time it happens - people wil either duck out of it with tail between legs or they'll have read up enough on the subjects surrounding the technology and the ideological reasoning for it's existence to see why it's still valuable and bring their cost average down if they can see future utility in what they're buying.
A good test question for new entrants should be "If Bitcoin was out of beta and functioning as hoped in years to come & didn't fluctuate in value whatsoever, would you rather your earnings/wealth be A: in Bitcoin or B: created by a government and held in a bank?"
If answer is B do not buy Bitcoin. Or whatever coin fits in that space instead.

jasper100

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I'm not speaking specifically of BTC but the argument is that when it's becokes mainstream, most people will have btc or another coin, will have the wallets that are free, transferring will take less than a second and then your family can buy what they want and no one will pay any fees.

The advantages when it takes hold (and it will) are huge and it take 10 minutes to sign up somewhere now, gets wallet, buy a coin with fiat (at this point in time) and send it

So it will all be fee free? If I go into a shop I can pay by bitcoin and neither the buyer or seller gets charged any transaction fees. Somebody will provide all this infrastructure for free. That's great news.

seannash wrote: »

This is a big part of it. Signing up for a bank account in a different country or even in Ireland can be laborious. People sometimes don't have the required documentation to open one especially if they are renting (2 bills in your name etc etc)

Plus the monthly fees, service charges from the banks etc etc

Banks will still be needed for mortgages and loans though unless there's a Crypto lending platform out there.

People change bank account on average once every 20 years. How soon do you think banks will be abolished and replaced by mortgage and loan only banks and will all be buying and selling in bitcoin with no traceability as to who is buying what and it will all be fee free?

When people are applying for mortgages will these new "mortgage and loan" only banks accept peoples history of buying and selling in bitcoin as proof of earnings.

Its great that there will be no fees at all associated with buying and selling and that when I go into my local for a pint we can do the bitcoin thing at no cost to either of us. Can't wait.

makeorbrake

jasper100 wrote: »

So it will all be fee free? If I go into a shop I can pay by bitcoin and neither the buyer or seller gets charged any transaction fees. Somebody will provide all this infrastructure for free. That's great news.

There's no reason why fees cant be minimal as it scales up.

jasper100 wrote: »

People change bank account on average once every 20 years. How soon do you think banks will be abolished and replaced by mortgage and loan only banks and will all be buying and selling in bitcoin with no traceability as to who is buying what and it will all be fee free?

I wouldn't be in the category of changing every 20 years - I think I've been with all the banks here (including some that are no longer here). However, I take the point that people are generally slower to move than they should be.

Nobody is going to 'abolish' anything. Market dictates. There will be room for banks and crypto. As regards the 'no traceability, that remains to be seen. If there is ID at ramping on and off btc, then there is more traceability than there ever was - as it's all there on the blockchain. In terms of traceability, don't we already have cash?

On timescale, it took a couple of hundred years to go from coin to paper and 40 years for plastic to bed in. This is a long term thing.

jasper100 wrote:

When people are applying for mortgages will these new "mortgage and loan" only banks accept peoples history of buying and selling in bitcoin as proof of earnings.

How do they account for cash transactions right now? If btc transfers and transactions became significant, you think that the banks would ignore it - or find a way of dealing with it so that they could do business?

jasper100 wrote: »

Its great that there will be no fees at all associated with buying and selling and that when I go into my local for a pint we can do the bitcoin thing at no cost to either of us. Can't wait.

As above, as it scales, transaction fees will be minimal.

seannash

jasper100 wrote: »

So it will all be fee free?

It can be. Look up Nano, yep its feeless.

jasper100

seannash wrote: »

It can be. Look up Nano, yep its feeless.

And it will always be feeless? All the infrastructure will be rolled out so that pubs can accept payments for pints without any fees at all.

It won't cost anybody anything, we will finally be able to enjoy the proverbial "free lunch".

seannash

jasper100 wrote: »

And it will always be feeless? All the infrastructure will be rolled out so that pubs can accept payments for pints without any fees at all.

It won't cost anybody anything, we will finally be able to enjoy the proverbial "free lunch".

Apologies, the pub will pay a fee to run a node I guess but as stated this will be minuscule.
I get it, you dont buy into it and that's fine but I'd imagine if someone said to you 10 years ago that people could tap their phone off a terminal to pay for things in the supermarket you might have been equally skeptical.

Can I ask do you think cold hard cash will ever be replaced?

jasper100

seannash wrote: »

Can I ask do you think cold hard cash will ever be replaced?

Absolutely 100%. 5 years max.

Blacktie.

jasper100 wrote: »

Absolutely 100%. 5 years max.

lol

seannash

jasper100 wrote: »

Absolutely 100%. 5 years max.

With??

grindle

Anybody running a node will be paying ~€2.50 a month.
Much cheaper than CC % and cheaper than debit card fees once more than 20 customers a month use it.

Nano's pretty cool.

GarIT

seannash wrote: »

With??

I know you're not asking me but I'd say something similar but it will be replaced by visa or a government issued card. The same card system we have with cards now just no option of cash existing.

jasper100

seannash wrote: »

With??

I have already gone cashless. Debit card for everything. No new technology needed.

jasper100

GarIT wrote: »

I know you're not asking me but I'd say something similar but it will be replaced by visa or a government issued card. The same card system we have with cards now just no option of cash existing.

Cash is expensive to handle. Banks are increasing their fees for businesses to lodge and withdraw cash. There are only a few branches (bank of Ireland) in each county that do cash now and limited hours.

Next thing is ATM's will go the way of payphones, they will be fewer and further between.

grindle

jasper100 wrote: »

I have already gone cashless. Debit card for everything. No new technology needed.

So you trust governments and banks implicitly, to a fault?

seannash

jasper100 wrote: »

Cash is expensive to handle. Banks are increasing their fees for businesses to lodge and withdraw cash. There are only a few branches (bank of Ireland) in each county that do cash now and limited hours.

Next thing is ATM's will go the way of payphones, they will be fewer and further between.

And what happens when they increase their fees to process debit card transactions on both the shop and consumer?

GarIT

grindle wrote: »

So you trust governments and banks implicitly, to a fault?

I don't see anyone being given much choice.

makeorbrake

grindle wrote: »

So you trust governments and banks implicitly, to a fault?

With both his money and also with his data. Every single transaction he will ever make will be available to someone in an office somewhere. ...what he purchased, when he purchased it, etc.
There have been a number of cases of employees for state agencies selling peoples data.

@Jasper100: Other than that, if all other things were equal (which I accept they're not right now...but that will change), wouldn't you rather take control of your own wealth rather than place it with a third party? And the answer to that may be that you're quite happy with that. However, there are those of us that are not.

Remember how close we came in this country to taking a haircut on our savings?

GarIT wrote:

I don't see anyone being given much choice.

Huh? If we can move to a trustless crypto model, then they don't have direct control over your wealth. By that I mean that you have the option to place funds in crypto - not necessarily a complete switchover from one system to the other as I think both can co-exist.

GarIT

seannash wrote: »

And what happens when they increase their fees to process debit card transactions on both the shop and consumer?

Banking will eventually be integrated into the public services card.

seannash

GarIT wrote: »

Banking will eventually be integrated into the public services card.

Is that something that you welcome?

GarIT

seannash wrote: »

Is that something that you welcome?

I'm not sure. It would be preferable over visa and possibly our current cash system.