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Owning stuff is coming to an end?

drillyeye

I'd consider myself a collector in a few different hobbies, media and the likes.

One thing that has struck me, particularly over the last few years, is the almost exponential growth of prices. Books, for example, have gone up in price to a huge extent (collectables, not brand new stuff).

I see the same thing happening across cars, music, videos, electronics.......list goes on. And plenty of other people asking WTF is happening too.

Another thing is the significant push to rent everything, whether its pcp for cars, or "streaming" media and so on.

At the end of the day, a company makes far more money by you being a repeat customer tied to them forever, rather than a once off customer.

Is everything "ownable" being sucked up, hence higher and higher prices? Is this being driven by the push to be a renter forever?

You could even apply the logic to housing. "Get it while you still can, cos they aren't making more"

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Your Face

hullaballoo

Under the Brehon law system, there was no concept of personal ownership. Resources were shared amongst the community so that everyone reaped the benefits of whatever the given resource was. Of course, there was no money in the equation to complicate matters. Bartering was really a minimal act to try and agree aggregate values of goods but it wasn't commodititised.

Basically, everything belonged to everyone and there was very little strife about it. The only exception to that was bees.

Vast texts were devoted to bees. And this is at a time where vast texts were numerable. There was the Ten Commandments and then there was the Brehon Law code on bees.

I think, in modern day parlance, the phrase would be "don't fcuk with another mothafcuker's bees"

Honey, innit.

Akrasia

Its what happens when wealth gets consolidated. Economic rent is the name given to economic activity that extracts wealth from ownership of assets rather than producing things of value.

As fewer people own a bigger proportion of the wealth, they 'invest' their wealth in hoarding resources that they think will be in demand later on. They can't find a productive use for their wealth, so they hoard valuable commodities and either create a scarcity or wait for one to emerge.

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

No

Besides consumables, have you not noticed the price of many things getting very high?

Its like anything of value is suddenly WAAYYYY more valuable.

I have a book that cost me about 300 quid a few years ago. That was the going rate. I had a look today and the new going rate is floating around 2 grand. Madness.

I bought a fairly unique enough car about 10 years ago, and its value has increased nearly 8 times. Again, nuts. There are a whole load of other things I'd be interested in, but I'm literally priced out of it now. Its like what I have is all I'll ever have, and the rest is only available to the super wealthy.

Whats going on?! And this is worldwide btw, not just Ireland.

Dohnjoe

What?

Electronics.. I can buy a smartphone for 100 quid that blows away phones from just a few years ago
Cars.. the same priced car is getting safer, more equipped, more efficient than previous models

In general. increased efficiency, competition and mass production has meant better prices, more choices, more options, better tech and higher quality than prior generations

drillyeye

Akrasia wrote: »

Its what happens when wealth gets consolidated. Economic rent is the name given to economic activity that extracts wealth from ownership of assets rather than producing things of value.

As fewer people own a bigger proportion of the wealth, they 'invest' their wealth in hoarding resources that they think will be in demand later on. They can't find a productive use for their wealth, so they hoard valuable commodities and either create a scarcity or wait for one to emerge.

That is my strong suspicion!

Are Am Eye

I don't things are so bad. I think you're inflating the problem OP.

drillyeye

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What?

Electronics.. I can buy a smartphone for 100 quid that blows away phones from just a few years ago
Cars.. the same priced car is getting safer, more equipped, more efficient than previous models

In general. increased efficiency, competition and mass production has meant better prices, more choices, more options, better tech and higher quality than prior generations

Yah but is that stuff of any long term value?

A phone is a 100 quid, but does it retain any value, will it be worth anything in 4 years time? You likely wont be able to give it away.

Cars........very very few have any intrinsic value. The money you spend on them drops off a cliff the moment you turn the key.

True value is in something that at least stays at the same cost you paid, or maybe even goes up. Anything that goes down is wasting money. Now you might be happy depending on the item, but as the other poster mentioned, it does seem to be a case of the smart/lucky ones buying up anything of ACTUAL value for the future.

While most people are wasting their money on stuff that will be junk in no time at all. Rich get richer, etc

eeguy

Akrasia wrote: »

Its what happens when wealth gets consolidated. Economic rent is the name given to economic activity that extracts wealth from ownership of assets rather than producing things of value.

As fewer people own a bigger proportion of the wealth, they 'invest' their wealth in hoarding resources that they think will be in demand later on. They can't find a productive use for their wealth, so they hoard valuable commodities and either create a scarcity or wait for one to emerge.

This isn't the one % though. This is just people in general having more disposable income and the time and means to research and buy collectables.

Vinyl, toys, retro games and books have gotten very popular in the last few years.

Then you have shows like pawn stars, America pickers and storage wars promoting the idea of going out and buying unique items.

Sure look at the increase of things like Pop Vinyl collectibles. Even beanie babies are back!

emo72

then theres the people who try to have no belongings. can you imagine owning or desiring nothing? just the clothes on your back, and a roof over your head. freedom. this is what scares wealthy people and governments the most. a world with no consumers. they are out there.

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

Besides consumables, have you not noticed the price of many things getting very high?

Its like anything of value is suddenly WAAYYYY more valuable.

I have a book that cost me about 300 quid a few years ago. That was the going rate. I had a look today and the new going rate is floating around 2 grand. Madness.

I bought a fairly unique enough car about 10 years ago, and its value has increased nearly 8 times. Again, nuts. There are a whole load of other things I'd be interested in, but I'm literally priced out of it now. Its like what I have is all I'll ever have, and the rest is only available to the super wealthy.

Whats going on?! And this is worldwide btw, not just Ireland.

Gold prices took a dip at the start of the month.

Rent is up because there is less property and more demand.

It's not a conspiracy.

With antiques, it follows trends like everything else.

Ubbquittious

No
Some USAian columnist might harp on about how 'millenials' prefer Uber to owning a car, love renting high rise apartments and get all their music from streaming sites but the reality is there are feck all other options for them because wage stagnation, lack of houses where the jobs are.

I have an old car thats worth feck all and my uncle has 4 more older ones in the shed also worth feck all but they're not the models the collectors are all vying for.

American megacorps are also pushing the monthly subscription model so they have a constant stream of income to pay their employees who are all up to their eyeballs in debt repayments. There is feck all money in hardware or designing physical objects because the Chinese just copy it if it's worthwhile so all the hardware companies are making simple widgets with some smarts that runs 'in de cloud' and hopefully out.of reach from copycats

drillyeye

Are Am Eye wrote: »

I don't things are so bad. I think you're inflating the problem OP.

Well if you are a collector (of anything, as far as I can make out), you'll definitely have noticed this trend the last few years.

Perhaps the most obvious example to everyone is housing. Its gotten so expensive now that its already out or reach of many, with no sign of it slowing down.

Its not exactly drastic YET, overall. But I'm seeing a definite trend, well on its way.

Speculation, across the board, is rising to levels I've never seen before. And as I already said, contrast that with the push to "rent" everything, or to "consume" everything......tip of an iceberg?

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

Gold prices took a dip at the start of the month.

Rent is up because there is less property and more demand.

It's not a conspiracy.

With antiques, it follows trends like everything else.

Yeah but look at any gold chart over a long enough time span.

Notice anything?

That same trend can be applied to a great many things nowadays, but on a much, much shorter timescale.

And your example of property is backing my position up, its getting too expensive for many people to ever own a home.

If I were talking about TRUE antiques, it would be expected. But the speculation has moved onto things that WILL be antiques. The game is being shored up right under your nose.

Summer In the City

The money I'm saving due to Spotify, Netflix and various tv players is huge. I used to spend a couple of hundred a month on dvds and cds.

Rent in Ireland is the only thing that was a problem but I'm gone so at the moment my cost of living is cheap, really cheap.

drillyeye

Ubbquittious wrote: »

No
Some USAian columnist might harp on about how 'millenials' prefer Uber to owning a car, love renting high rise apartments and get all their music from streaming sites but the reality is there are feck all other options for them because wage stagnation, lack of houses where the jobs are.

I have an old car thats worth feck all and my uncle has 4 more older ones in the shed also worth feck all but they're not the models the collectors are all vying for.

American megacorps are also pushing the monthly subscription model so they have a constant stream of income to pay their employees who are all up to their eyeballs in debt repayments. There is feck all money in hardware or designing physical objects because the Chinese just copy it if it's worthwhile so all the hardware companies are making simple widgets with some smarts that runs 'in de cloud' and hopefully out.of reach from copycats

Why does your post begin with a "no", but then agree with pretty much everything I'm saying?

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

Yeah but look at any gold chart over a long enough time span.

Notice anything?

I noticed that it's nowhere near its 2011 price.

drillyeye

Summer In the City wrote: »

The money I'm saving due to Spotify, Netflix and various tv players is huge. I used to spend a couple of hundred a month on dvds and cds.

Rent in Ireland is the only thing that was a problem but I'm gone so at the moment my cost of living is cheap, really cheap.

Well that's something I've realised fairly recently, that having money is good, but only to a certain extent.

You'll rarely hear of a millionaire that just lets it sit in a bank. They invest to multiply their capital.

Think of it like you having a euro, and a millionaire having a euro. Your euro will accrue like 1% a year in bank (if you don't pay charges). Whereas their euro is invested, and perhaps gaining 20%.

Their money is more valuable than yours, simply because they "own stuff".

My main point is that this idea of speculating on ownership seems to have taken a hefty does of crack cocaine, sucking up everything and anything.

I'm especially dubious of paying for subscriptions to stuff I'll never own. It might seem like youre saving short term, but at the end you'll be left with zero value. Even a stupid 2 euro dvd can be resold for a few pence later.

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

I noticed that it's nowhere near its 2011 price.

Try 1990.

And my point is that the same appreciation of the asset is happening to many things now.......only much , much quicker.

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

Try 1990.

And my point is that the same appreciation of the asset is happening to many things now.......only much , much quicker.

1990 price is approx. the same as the 2002 price.
With vast fluctuations inbetween those two points.

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

So you noticed the jump from appx 250 to 1350 then?

Did you see that?

I think you're looking at the graph upside down.

Are Am Eye

What was a set level of resources is depleting continuously. Along
side an increasing population.

It might be of benefit to hit a kind of crisis point at the earliest possible
moment. Then civilisation collapses, the collapse acting as a safety valve, culling great swathes of the world population. And leaving a smaller group of people living a simpler life.

The alternative is for technology to develop to the degree that we can exploit hitherto unavailable resources in this world or beyond in the stars.

Well. Isn't this a cheery conversation to end the day with.

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

1990 price is approx. the same as the 2002 price.
With vast fluctuations inbetween those two points.

Contrarian nonsense. Or maybe youre just the worst investor in the world.

drillyeye

Are Am Eye wrote: »

What was a set level of resources is depleting continuously. Along
side an increasing population.

It might be of benefit to hit a kind of crisis point at the earliest possible
moment. Then civilisation collapses, the collapse acting as a safety valve, culling great swathes of the world population. And leaving a smaller group of people living a simpler life.

The alternative is for technology to develop to the degree that we can exploit hitherto unavailable resources in this world or beyond in the stars.

Well. Isn't this a cheery conversation to end the day with.

"things are running out"......definitely a factor.

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

Contrarian nonsense. Or maybe youre just the worst investor in the world.

Stick to the point please.

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

Stick to the point please.

That's a few years out of date, but if you cant see the OVERALL trend (a perfect example of my point), then I'll have to ask what your major malfunction is, son!? :P

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

That's a few years out of date, but if you cant see the OVERALL trend (a perfect example of my point), then I'll have to ask what your major malfunction is, son!? :P

I love how you left out the recent years where it dropped off and fluctuated.

drillyeye

Your Face wrote: »

I love how left out the years where it dropped off and fluctuated.

Believe it or not I didn't create the graph.

Now, to follow you on your merry dance of avoiding defeat, can you tell me what a trend is?

Perhaps you can calculate a mean percentage increase, and explain what it tells you.

Would you like to have bought gold at ANYTIME before the year 2000? Or after?

Sweet jeebus!

Your Face

drillyeye wrote: »

Believe it or not I didn't create the graph.

I doubt you did, however, it conveniently fails to show the years I was talking about.

drillyeye wrote: »

Now, to follow you on your merry dance of avoiding defeat, can you tell me what a trend is?

Why are you posting like a forgettable Bond villain?

Come on, stick to the points.

Your arguments are all over the place.

Last chance.

Vic_08

drillyeye wrote: »

Yeah but look at any gold chart over a long enough time span.

Notice anything?

That same trend can be applied to a great many things nowadays, but on a much, much shorter timescale.

And your example of property is backing my position up, its getting too expensive for many people to ever own a home.

If I were talking about TRUE antiques, it would be expected. But the speculation has moved onto things that WILL be antiques. The game is being shored up right under your nose.

And a lot of these things will never yield the return people are hoping for. Like any commodity the value is based on what people will pay for it. Buying stuff in the expectation it will someday be valuable due to demand is a gamble, some items will never have the demand to make them worth much while others that nobody ever expected to be of value will.

The problem is that if you have the bright idea that item X will be worth a fortune in 20 years it's a safe bet that lots of other people will have the same idea and it may never be rare enough to generate demand.

On the other end of the spectrum is stuff that practically nobody would have considered worthwhile collecting when new is now extremely rare and has an increasing value, as supply is so limited these can hold value very well.

It is also the case that demand and prices can fall quickly, particularly with stuff that has a small collector base and a huge amount of profit driven traders. Once the smell of a downward trend hits the amount suddenly offered for sale outstrips those willing to buy and the "value" plummets.

It is true that genuine enthusiasts have been shafted by the prices in certain markets where they get squeezed out by the speculators. Classic cars are a particular case where increasingly they get bought as investments to be locked up in secure storage at prices way above most genuine enthusiasts who would like to own them for more than just monetary gain. In these markets the prices are also more volatile as they become a quasi-currency, there have been numerous cycles in the classic car market over the years as prices fall and rise like any other commodity traded primarily for it's speculative value.