Call me Al wrote: » You say you know lots of women who have had an abortion and thought nothing of it. How can you possibly know LOTS of women in this situation? Lots who have discussed this with you, an openly anti-repeal supporter? How many do you consider "lots"? I am heading towards 50 years on this earth of ours, and know and have met lots of women over the years. I know a few women who have had abortions. None of them, when they chose to discuss their thought process and choice with me, made the decision lightly or dismissively. Where are these LOTS OF WOMEN you have encountered?
grahambo wrote: » The one niggling thing that keeps getting me is; Had abortion had been available at a time when my mother was pregnant with my sister, she might not have been born. My parents were going through a bad break up at the time and my sister was the (presumed accidental) product of a reconciliation attempt. Things worked out in the end. I love my sister, I cannot imagine growing up as an only child.
splinter65 wrote: » I meet them in my line of work. This is getting ridiculous now. About one in 3 women having abortions in the UK have already had an abortion. Across Asia 100 baby girls are born to every 120 boys . I don’t judge any of these people. Every one has to live with themselves. But pretending that people only have abortions in a crisis is nuts.
swampgas wrote: » And you think that because some people have abortions for reasons that you think trivial, the 8th amendment should be retained? Do you know how nuts that is?
splinter65 wrote: » Pretending that women don’t decide to have an abortion when they find themselves unexpectedly pregnant at a time when they didn’t plan to be is ridiculous. It happens all the time. I know lots of women who have had abortions and thought no more about it. There is not always weeks of agonizing and grief and contemplation.
swampgas wrote: » What about the twin brother your sister might have had? Do you miss your brother? Can you imagine living without him? You might as say we should ban contraception because of all the other brothers and sisters you might have right now.
splinter65 wrote: » I live in the real world. People have abortions because they have been told that the baby they are having is disabled or will not survive outside the womb. They have abortions because they thought their family was complete and didn’t intend to start again. They have abortions because either their contraception failed or they didn’t use contraception. They have abortions because they don’t want to be pregnant. Some women have abortions because it has been made clear to them that they will have no support. Some women have more than 1 abortion. There’s a trend on amongst the pro repeal advocates to push the idea that every abortion is agonized over and only happens after much heart searching. What absolute nonsense. It’s just a bunch of cells. A non sentient clump with no brain and no rights. There’s no need for any agonizing.
Ajsoprano wrote: » We were talking about whether there was a lifestyle choice element to it.
Ajsoprano wrote: » Are you saying an 11 week old baby in the mammies belly is the same as a bit of jizz on a sock?
zedhead wrote: » Do you think the decisions you listed were snap judgements decided on a whim? Just because its not a crisis situation, does not mean its an easy decision to make. You may 100% know it is the right thing to do but still wish you weren't in the situation to have to make the decision.
Ajsoprano wrote: » I know a fair few women who have had miscarriages and for them the thought that people say 11 week old babies are just an unimportant blob of cells sickens them. I know a fair few gay people who would love to adopt and the thoughts that people would rather babies were aborted rather than gay adoption given more attention sickens them. It’s a mad referendum all together really.
swampgas wrote: » Lifestyle choice - that's a horrible little phrase, to be honest, designed to imply that people are making arbitrary choices on little more than a whim. It also suggest that some people's choices are not worthy enough for the rest of us to respect. So much easier to have a draconian law that makes everyone's choice for them instead, is that your opinion? You either respect people's right to have autonomy, and make their own choices, or you don't. Hiding behind a thinly veiled sneer at "lifestyle choices" isn't much of an argument and doesn't reflect well on you.
Ajsoprano wrote: » It’s not a sneer. You can’t just call things you don’t like a sneer. I’m glad I had autonomy over my body when I was growing in my mother. What if she wanted to go study literature in dit?
splinter65 wrote: » Yes lots of women find it easy to decide to abort. It’s just a bunch of cells. It’s a fetus not a baby. It doesn’t feel anything. It’s the same as the morning after pill. Really I’m thinking now you want to have your cake and eat it. If it’s a nothing, a zygote, a speck, then why on earth would it be a difficult desicion to make?
Ave Sodalis wrote: » People have abortions for all those reasons and more. It didn't take much... ehh... heart searching... for me to make my decision for the future. I am really struggling to see your point here. Some people agonize over it before they become pregnant, some people do afterwards, some people don't at all. However, the fact remains that you cannot call it an easy decision, or one that's done on a whim when so many do agonize over it. Also, do you truly believe those last lines? Or is this part of the weird point you're making? They aren't unimportant when they're wanted. Fertile women are not baby makers for people who can't have children. That thought sickens me.
Ave Sodalis wrote: » So only arts students have abortions? Or is it only arts students who aren't doing a course that's worthy of abortion? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Ajsoprano wrote: » I’m glad I had autonomy over my body when I was growing in my mother. What if she wanted to go study literature in dit?
splinter65 wrote: » No I don’t believe those lines. That’s part of the pro repeal spiel here. The bloody hypocrisy . One minute it’s a zygote a fetus a speck non sentient and a bunch of cells. It’s even been described as a parasite. The next post were asked to believe that every woman who ever had an abortion only did so after “much heart searching” etc....over the zygote/bunch of cells/parasite ....oh please.
Ajsoprano wrote: » You say you are not a baby maker for the barren but tell me why would you rather your child not live than have him live with somebody else?
PhoenixParker wrote: » I had an 11 week miscarriage. It was upsetting, devastating at the time, I still think about the baby and what might have been . . . But. . . That miscarriage was in no way remotely comparable to the loss of a living breathing child. As a mother the pain of such a loss is something I can’t even bare to think about. I know many women who’ve had miscarriages, I know a few people who’ve lost children. The two are not remotely comparable because while a fetus has more value then your sock full of jizz, it is nowhere close to the value of a living breathing child. Even the Irish government accords maternity leave rights only for stillborn babies after 24 weeks gestation.
grahambo wrote: » I feel abortion should an option in some cases. However my concern is that it will be become a form of mainstream contraception. (I'm trying to be sensitive with my words here) If I felt people were responsible in this country it would be a big "repeal" from me. However people are not responsible in this country, not at all in fact. Irish people are renowned for the "It's always someone else's fault" attitude or "just my luck" or "not my problem", not to mention how self entitled a lot of people are today. Such to the extent that they feel they should have X,Y or Z not because they've earned it, but because the feel they are entitled to/deserve it, because someone that has earned it has gotten it. (Obviously you dont earn the right to have an abortion, I' not using this as a metaphor. rather trying to gauge the way people think in this country) You only have to look at all the crap that happen in the lead up to and during the crash to understand we Irish are not responsible.
Ave Sodalis wrote: » Because it would kill me, not that the pro-life would care.
Ave Sodalis wrote: » Fertile women are not baby makers for people who can't have children. That thought sickens me.
swampgas wrote: » Look, Irish women have abortions right now - they just travel to the UK. In fact in a referendum years ago the Irish people put it in the constitution that they have the right to travel. The constitution reflects the weird contradictory attitude I find here: abortion is okay if you travel, but a terrible crime if you have one at home. It's the same woman, the same pregnancy, the same foetus/baby, just in a different place for a few days. How crazy is that? Trying to link abortion to the financial crisis is just ... I don't know where to begin, to be honest.
zedhead wrote: » You think people are so irresponsible they should not be trusted with the decision to have abortion available to them...but all of these horribly irresponsible people are grand to raise children?
JDD wrote: Please actually answer the questions. Because you are voting on something that will directly affect me.
grahambo wrote: » I feel if I talk positively about abortion to pro-lifers they hate me and are disgusted by me. I feel if I talk positively about pro-life to pro-choicers they feel I'm a misogynistic pig.
