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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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SusieBlue

Percy Judd wrote: »

No it doesn't. It shows how careless English women are about not using contraception and getting pregnant knowing they can just abort if they decide to have unprotected sex.

Or it shows responsible women dealing with a crisis pregnancy that they do not have the means (mentally, physically, financially or emotionally) to carry, in a way they see fit. Its their health, their life, not yours.

ohnonotgmail

Percy Judd wrote: »

No it doesn't. It shows how careless English women are about not using contraception and getting pregnant knowing they can easily abort if they decide to have unprotected sex and become pregnant.

No matter how careful a woman is all methods of contraception have a failure rate. The fact that you dont know this is worrying.

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Percy Judd

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No matter how careful a woman is all methods of contraception have a failure rate. The fact that you dont know this is worrying.

I know the contraception pill is 99% effective when used correctly.
I know condoms are 98% effective when used correctly.
Combined gives close to 100% effectiveness at preventing pregnancy.

eviltwin

Percy Judd wrote: »

No it doesn't. It shows how careless English women are about not using contraception and getting pregnant knowing they can easily abort if they decide to have unprotected sex and become pregnant.

This kind of stupid and flippant remark is typical of people who know fcuk all about abortion.

If you had an abortion you wouldnt say it's an alternative to contraception. In every possible way contraception is the better option.

January

Percy Judd wrote: »

I know the contraception pill is 99% effective when used correctly.
I know condoms are 98% effective when used correctly.
Combined gives close to 100% effectiveness at preventing pregnancy.

Close to but not exactly 100% and again, not everyone can use them.

Percy Judd

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Because I disagree with abortion I should just leave the discussion?
That's the general consensus around here.
Pro-life posters are ganged up on, shouted down and told to leave because they disagree with the heavily pro-abortion contingent on this website.
Ironic that the people opposed to killing the unborn are seen as the evil ones. What a sad reflection on modern society.

ohnonotgmail

Percy Judd wrote: »

I know the contraception pill is 99% effective when used correctly.
I know condoms are 98% effective when used correctly.
Combined gives close to 100% effectiveness at preventing pregnancy.

"close to 100%"? So not 100% then. and if a woman just happens to fall into the fraction of a percent then that is just tough **** is it?

ohnonotgmail

Percy Judd wrote: »

Because I disagree with abortion I should just leave the discussion?
That's the general consensus around here.
Pro-life posters are ganged up on, shouted down and told to leave because they disagree with the heavily pro-abortion contingent on this website.

No because your arguments are woefully ignorant.

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Percy Judd

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"close to 100%"? So not 100% then. and if a woman just happens to fall into the fraction of a percent then that is just tough **** is it?

The unborn receiving capital punishment is not the answer either.

Ave Sodalis

Percy Judd wrote: »

Not really, all I can see is 1 poster describing the 12 week fetus as similar in appearance to a rubber alien toy. Google the images for yourself. This isn't just some unwanted cancerous growth you can destroy, it's another tiny human being with it's own heartbeat, head, arms, legs, fingers, toes, synapses formed in the brain, intestine, responds to stimulus ,etc.

Actually, I don't need to google them. I already know what a 12 week foetus looks like. I don't see your point?

Grayson

Percy Judd wrote: »

That's silly logic.
If someone has 3 children, and 1 of them is killed. The other 2 children will obviously have more time/attention/money available from their parents. It doesn't give you the right to kill off 1 of your children.

You know that they (and I) don't think terminating a pregnancy at a very early stage is killing a baby/child so it's really a false analogy.

If you want to convince someone abortion is wrong you'll have to demonstrate that an embryo/foetus at a particular stage is a person.

Simply saying abortion is killing a child isn't going to change minds or win an argument unless you show why it is so.

Fred Swanson

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SusieBlue

Percy Judd wrote: »

The unborn receiving capital punishment is not the answer either.

You wonder why people don't respect your opinion, yet you go around soap boxing and posting hyperbole such as the above? Really?

There are people reading and posting here who have had abortions themselves. Perhaps a bit of sensitivity when making your point wouldn't go amiss.

Fred Swanson

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Percy Judd

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I grew up in England and have seen the change in attitude between here and there that having abortion freely available causes.
It will happen slowly in Ireland too when the 8th is repealed.
First it will be used by those who fall into the 0.1% - 1% of statistics where proper use of contraception has failed.
As the number of abortions grows, after a few years everyone will know someone who had an abortion and it becomes more normal and accepted. The next generation of children will grow up knowing no different.
Then eventually we will become like England, where contraception is not given as much consideration and women don't worry about becoming pregnant as much knowing they can just abort if they don't want to keep the baby.

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Percy Judd

Grayson wrote: »

If you want to convince someone abortion is wrong you'll have to demonstrate that an embryo/foetus at a particular stage is a person.

I've already addressed this in a previous post:

Not really, all I can see is 1 poster describing the 12 week fetus as similar in appearance to a rubber alien toy. Google the images for yourself. This isn't just some unwanted cancerous growth you can destroy, it's another tiny human being with it's own heartbeat, head, arms, legs, fingers, toes, synapses formed in the brain, intestine, responds to stimulus ,etc.

To me that's a tiny human being and most certainly a person.

ohnonotgmail

Percy Judd wrote: »

I grew up in England and have seen the change in attitude between here and there that having abortion freely available causes.
It will happen slowly in Ireland too when the 8th is repealed.
First it will be used by those who fall into the 0.1% - 1% of statistics where proper use of contraception has failed.
As the number of abortions grows, after a few years everyone will know someone who had an abortion and it becomes more normal and accepted. The next generation of children will grow up knowing no different.
Then eventually we will become like England, where contraception is not given as much consideration and women don't worry about becoming pregnant as much knowing they can just abort if they don't want to keep the baby.

how many abortions do you think a woman can have before she permanently damages her fertility?

Ave Sodalis

Percy Judd wrote: »

Because I disagree with abortion I should just leave the discussion?
That's the general consensus around here.
Pro-life posters are ganged up on, shouted down and told to leave because they disagree with the heavily pro-abortion contingent on this website.
Ironic that the people opposed to killing the unborn are seen as the evil ones. What a sad reflection on modern society.

Great, we're going to have this sort of rubbish in this referendum too? Firstly, the poster didn't tell you to leave. They said you've nothing to bring to the discussion, and if you're using the type of unreasonable arguments that you are, which have been discussed repeatedly at this stage, then yes, your posts have added nothing more to the discussion.
Secondly, what ganging up on and shouting down are you experiencing? Please point it out. You are entitled to your opinion, but putting it on a discussion board means that that opinion will be discussed and other people are entitled to tell you what they think of that opinion. This sounds like a last ditched attempt of someone who's ran out of valid arguments and has now resorted to the "but they're bullying me because they don't agree with me!" argument...

Percy Judd

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How are they incorrect if I never said they were or weren't referring to theoretical effectiveness?
Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them incorrect.

SusieBlue

Percy Judd wrote: »

I grew up in England and have seen the change in attitude between here and there that having abortion freely available causes.
It will happen slowly in Ireland too when the 8th is repealed.
First it will be used by those who fall into the 0.1% - 1% of statistics where proper use of contraception has failed.
As the number of abortions grows, after a few years everyone will know someone who had an abortion and it becomes more normal and accepted. The next generation of children will grow up knowing no different.
Then eventually we will become like England, where contraception is not given as much consideration and women don't worry about becoming pregnant as much knowing they can just abort if they don't want to keep the baby.

4k Irish women procure abortions every single year.
Ireland is by no means an abortion free country. Irish women are having them, just not in Ireland.
I already know a few people who have had them. I imagine most people know someone who has had one. You have no grip on reality at all.

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Percy Judd

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how many abortions do you think a woman can have before she permanently damages her fertility?

Enlighten me then, how many?

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JDD

I grew up in England and have seen the change in attitude between here and there that having abortion freely available causes.
It will happen slowly in Ireland too when the 8th is repealed.

Bull. We've had divorce here for 20 years and our statistics aren't even close to the UK's.

after a few years everyone will know someone who had an abortion and it becomes more normal and accepted. The next generation of children will grow up knowing no different

You already know an Irish woman who's had an abortion. They just haven't told you about it.

I know three.

Percy Judd

....... wrote: »

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At what point do we 'care' about humans then?
What stage of mental or cognitive development?
What stage of physical development?