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Irish Language Act in the North: Have Sinn Fein scored a major own goal?

jimd2

Probably not a popular opinion as most I speak to are fully in favour of Sinn Fein's strategy ref the Irish Language Act in the North.

However I think that they have possibly scored a major own goal in insisting on the imposing of the Irish Language Act. I think they have handed the DUP a Get Out Of Jail ard with regards to Devoltion and, allied to not taking their Westminister seats have allowed the sitution develop where the British government will not act to impose their will on the DUP.

So the DUP seem to be getting what they wanted - a return to direct rule from London and, linked in to Brexit this must be against the overall nationalist.

Regarding the Irish Language Act, in my opinion a lot of the stuff s bells and whistles such as signage and will do very little to really increase the use of Irish in the North. I think Sinn Fein thought they were in a stronger position than they were and thought this would be easier to get than it was.

However I hink the price they look to be payin is too much but they have gone too far and cannot back down now especially with a new leader. So major wn goal from Adams and co..

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blackwhite

Edward M wrote: »

Just seen this headline, I can't access the article, but it looks like a snub for the two leaders of the feuding party's, what is the deal here?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mcdonald-and-foster-not-invited-to-white-house-for-st-patrick-s-day-1.3423325?mode=ampb

Officially the line seems to be that MLMD and AF are getting a small rap on the knuckles from the White House for failing to agree a deal.

I can sort of see the logic of Gerry being asked in place of MLMD (former leader, etc); but I'm struggling to see how Paisley Jnr is seen as the equivalent for the DUP. Is he even their "leader" in the Commons?

Of course - it could just be they feel it's safer not to invite women to an event with Trump present, for their own safety :pac:

Professor Moriarty

blackwhite wrote: »

Officially the line seems to be that MLMD and AF are getting a small rap on the knuckles from the White House for failing to agree a deal.

I can sort of see the logic of Gerry being asked in place of MLMD (former leader, etc); but I'm struggling to see how Paisley Jnr is seen as the equivalent for the DUP. Is he even their "leader" in the Commons?

Of course - it could just be they feel it's safer not to invite women to an event with Trump present, for their own safety :pac:

I wonder if Ian and Gerry will travel together? Might even share a twin room to save money.

FrancieBrady

Mammy America scolding the children.
Must be a right slap for those in government with those who have a 'special relationship'.

McMurphy

blackwhite wrote: »

I can sort of see the logic of Gerry being asked in place of MLMD (former leader, etc); but I'm struggling to see how Paisley Jnr is seen as the equivalent for the DUP. Is he even their "leader" in the Commons?

This.

Bizarre decision really.

blackwhite

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

This.

Bizarre decision really.

Name value is the only reason I can think of - that or his previously expressed views on homosexuality appealed to the Pence camp.

McMurphy

blackwhite wrote: »

Name value is the only reason I can think of - that or his previously expressed views on homosexuality appealed to the Pence camp.

Would it surprise anyone if (as you say) name value only was the reason?

Ian Paisley (jr being insignificant) and Gerry Adams together in the Whitehouse?

Trump administration fails to surprise me anymore. I'd put little past them.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Would it surprise anyone if (as you say) name value only was the reason?

Ian Paisley (jr being insignificant) and Gerry Adams together in the Whitehouse?

Trump administration fails to surprise me anymore. I'd put little past them.

Quite possible that they haven't realised that Ian Paisley Senior is dead.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite possible that they haven't realised that Ian Paisley Senior is dead.

I was going to suggest that, but surely even the trump admin aren't that dumb?

Seems like a logical explanation though.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I was going to suggest that, but surely even the trump admin aren't that dumb?

Seems like a logical explanation though.

It is a bizarre combination.

OK, fair enough, if you want to exclude Foster and O'Neill because of no Assembly, but then why not deputy leaders (Dodds and presumably Doherty because it can't be O'Neill)? Or the leaders in the Dail (McDonald) or Westminister?

Is Campbell (as Spokesperson on the Cabinet Office) or Donaldson (Chief Whip) DUP leader in Westminister?

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/government-and-opposition1/democratic-unionist-party/

But Adams and Paisley Junior has no rhyme or reason.

jm08

Old times sake. A compromise so as not to break the tradition and a reprimand to the warring parties from British & Irish Gov. though TM's Gov. has to go easy on them. Dodds probably refused to go because he would see no reason why a British person would get involved in an Irish celebration. Ian Paisley is a bit more relaxed about it.

I'd imagine that the British & Irish Ambassadors are advising the Trump administration on who to invite.

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I was going to suggest that, but surely even the trump admin aren't that dumb?

Seems like a logical explanation though.

With junior in rant mode these days will they notice the difference?

recedite

Its all about the optics. The chuckle brothers are now dead, but the Whitehouse prefers to invite people who will represent that kind of reconciliation, in some way, even if its just by association or name.

If they invited the actual leaders, they would be a symbol of current failings, as opposed to good memories.

recedite

jm08 wrote: »

no reason why a British person would get involved in an Irish celebration.

Downpatrick

The Fleg

FrancieBrady

A decent journalist should ask the White House what they mean. Because I can't figure it out.

Maybe Foster and O'Neill declined to be in Trumps company (or one of them did)?

jm08

recedite wrote: »

Downpatrick

The Fleg

Oh, good. I can't wait to see Gregory Campbell & Nigel Dodds leading out the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Belfast.

recedite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe Foster and O'Neill declined to be in Trumps company (or one of them did)?

There's a gig coming up soon on 17th in the White House, and its hard to find a decent comedy duo these days.
There's always the chance that the ladies would try to get a dig in against Trump, and we can't be having that.
Whereas Gerry will be guaranteed to behave himself because he has been desperately trying to get a ticket to the gig for years. Also Gerry has something in common with The Donald; both have always played by their own rules in clawing their way to the top.
Paisley Junior should do what is expected of him, and provide some novelty entertainment value to the assembled US dignitaries. Does he drink champagne, or is he a teetotaller?

recedite

jm08 wrote: »

Oh, good. I can't wait to see Gregory Campbell & Nigel Dodds leading out the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Belfast.

Something like that could happen, in the far distant future.
It's not written in stone that Paddys Day and Easter must always be shinnerfests in Norn Iron.

FrancieBrady

recedite wrote: »

There's a gig coming up soon on 17th in the White House, and its hard to find a decent comedy duo these days.
There's always the chance that the ladies would try to get a dig in against Trump, and we can't be having that.
Whereas Gerry will be guaranteed to behave himself because he has been desperately trying to get a ticket to the gig for years. Also Gerry has something in common with The Donald; both have always played by their own rules in clawing their way to the top.
Paisley Junior should do what is expected of him, and provide some novelty entertainment value to the assembled US dignitaries. Does he drink champagne, or is he a teetotaller?

Point of information: Gerry started at the top. No clawing required.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Point of information: Gerry started at the top. No clawing required.

Gerry only became leader of Sinn Fein in 1983, yet he was active in republican circles long before that.

Are you suggesting he held some other leadership position in the republican movement?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Gerry only became leader of Sinn Fein in 1983, yet he was active in republican circles long before that.

Are you suggesting he held some other leadership position in the republican movement?

First time he stood for leadership of SF = elected.

First time he stood as an MP = elected

Edit: Nearly forgot ; first time he stood for the Dail = elected.

jm08

recedite wrote: »

Something like that could happen, in the far distant future.
It's not written in stone that Paddys Day and Easter must always be shinnerfests in Norn Iron.

St. Patrick's day was a religious (RC) occasion up to fairly recently. Not sure any Orange Order members would be up for that. The DUP won't refer to the Good Friday Agreement as the GFA (because of its RC connotations). They always refer to it as the Belfast Agreement, so I'd say its more that unionists have disowned St. Patrick's Day & Easter, rather than the SF turning them into a sinnerfest.

recedite

blanch152 wrote: »

Gerry only became leader of Sinn Fein in 1983, yet he was active in republican circles long before that.

Are you suggesting he held some other leadership position in the republican movement?

jm08 wrote: »

St. Patrick's day was a religious (RC) occasion up to fairly recently.

Christmas day still is, but that doesn't mean any one religion owns it.
Anyway, keep your eye on the skyline this Paddy's Day and you can still see the odd St. Patrick's flag flying, even around Dublin. They are way outnumbered by tricolours of course, but still around.

jm08

recedite wrote: »

Christmas day still is, but that doesn't mean any one religion owns it.

No parades on Christmas Day.

Anyway, keep your eye on the skyline this Paddy's Day and you can still see the odd St. Patrick's flag flying, even around Dublin. They are way outnumbered by tricolours of course, but still around.

I'll look forward to see them flown in the Belfast Parade.

Edward M

jm08 wrote: »

No parades on Christmas Day.

I'll look forward to see them flown in the Belfast Parade.

Someone thinks St Patrick was a protestant.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/01/22/news/-protestant-st-patrick-row-sparks-religious-debate-390776/

Jawgap

blanch152 wrote: »

Gerry only became leader of Sinn Fein in 1983, yet he was active in republican circles long before that.

Are you suggesting he held some other leadership position in the republican movement?

Maybe he got a lateral transfer

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

St. Patrick's day was a religious (RC) occasion up to fairly recently. Not sure any Orange Order members would be up for that. The DUP won't refer to the Good Friday Agreement as the GFA (because of its RC connotations). They always refer to it as the Belfast Agreement, so I'd say its more that unionists have disowned St. Patrick's Day & Easter, rather than the SF turning them into a sinnerfest.

There is nothing particularly 'RC' about 'Good Friday', I think the DUP were being more juvenile than that with the agreement's name, doing the same as what they did with Brexit - took an opposing position/name for the sake of it.

FrancieBrady

Junior setting the DUP up to fire a round at the other foot?

Mr Paisley said that Northern Ireland and the United states have a special relationship.

“It's an honour to meet the President of the United States but especially so as our two nations embark upon extending the special relationship in trade and culture," he said.

"I will dine with the President and also attend a White House reception. I will be encouraging him to continue to support Northern Ireland. Our cultures are tied by history and trade. We must continue to develop such links.”

For Forks Sake

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Junior setting the DUP up to fire a round at the other foot?

Good luck with that Ian , I somehow doubt Trump would be able to find Ballymena on a map

recedite

jm08 wrote: »

No parades on Christmas Day.
I'll look forward to see them flown in the Belfast Parade.

I'm not sure what your point is, but if you are somehow saying that the parade was originally a catholic religious event, and for that reason protestants/unionists want no part in it, you are wrong.
St. Patrick is the patron saint of all Ireland, and not just nationalists.

By the same token, St George and the St. George fleg is for all England, not just white anglo-saxon far-right supporting Englishmen.

jm08

recedite wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is, but if you are somehow saying that the parade was originally a catholic religious event, and for that reason protestants/unionists want no part in it, you are wrong.
St. Patrick is the patron saint of all Ireland, and not just nationalists.

By the same token, St George and the St. George fleg is for all England, not just white anglo-saxon far-right supporting Englishmen.

I'm saying that up to a few years ago, St. Patrick's Day was a religious day for all the Christians on the island of Ireland (St. Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland, not Catholicism or Protestantism). I'm well aware that St. Patrick is the patron saint for all Christians in Ireland (I live about a mile away from St. Patrick's Cathedral).

You blame Sinn Fein for hijacking St. Patrick's Day - the truth of the matter is that if anyone hijacked it, it is Failte Ireland.