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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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paw patrol

amdublin wrote: »

It's far from over yet.

It was a positive for the repeal side that there was a lower than expected turnout yesterday. I would say that even the 15000 number is being generous - but hey what do I know I just live near Parnell and see all of the marches that start out from there.
It is also a positive for the pro-choicers that so many in attendance yesterday are small children who don't have vote.

Indications from a lot of the colleges and universities around Ireland are that they are pro-choice campuses. The repeal side really need all those students to come #hometovote

Those marches however still show how tight of a grip the Catholic church still has over a lot of the country people that they could rustle up 15000 on to the coaches and up to Dublin

there were a lot more than 15000 there.
anyone who says otherwise is lying or has a bias.

secondly that catholic church stuff is bull**** , many people who are pro life aren't involved in the church. Some are. Many aren't.
The Catholics did it mantra it is a nonsensical as the Russians did it regarding Trumps election.

Sofiztikated

paw patrol wrote: »

there were a lot more less than 15000 there.
anyone who says otherwise is lying or has a bias.

Works both ways.

_Dara_

amdublin wrote: »

It's far from over yet.

It was a positive for the repeal side that there was a lower than expected turnout yesterday. I would say that even the 15000 number is being generous - but hey what do I know I just live near Parnell and see all of the marches that start out from there.
It is also a positive for the pro-choicers that so many in attendance yesterday are small children who don't have vote.

Indications from a lot of the colleges and universities around Ireland are that they are pro-choice campuses. The repeal side really need all those students to come #hometovote

Those marches however still show how tight of a grip the Catholic church still has over a lot of the country people that they could rustle up 15000 on to the coaches and up to Dublin

I’m not sure I’m comfortable with whole campuses being declared as one thing or another. I say that as a pro-choicer. Nobody on any campus should feel they have to suppress their views if it’s not seen as the “campus view.”

Reminds me of a class rep we had in college who sent an email to the entire class admonishing them for the poor turnout from the class at some protest or other. She actually said she was ashamed of us. The next day, she wrote a grovelling apology email so I’d say she had a full inbox of emails telling her where to go.

Oldtree

amdublin wrote: »

It's far from over yet.

It was a positive for the repeal side that there was a lower than expected turnout yesterday. I would say that even the 15000 number is being generous - but hey what do I know I just live near Parnell and see all of the marches that start out from there. It is also a positive for the pro-choicers that so many in attendance yesterday are small children who don't have vote.

Indications from a lot of the colleges and universities around Ireland are that they are pro-choice campuses. The repeal side really need all those students to come #hometovote

Those marches however still show how tight of a grip the Catholic church still has over a lot of the country people that they could rustle up 15000 on to the coaches and up to Dublin

I'm not suggesting for one minute that anyone become complacent about a referendum, because of a poor turnout at an organised March.

Anyone that does not vote or does nothing, acquiesces to, and are not innocent of, the result of the upcoming referendum.

amdublin

_Dara_ wrote: »

I’m not sure I’m comfortable with whole campuses being declared as one thing or another. I say that as a pro-choicer. Nobody on any campus should feel they have to suppress their views if it’s not seen as the “campus view.”

Reminds me of a class rep we had in college who sent an email to the entire class admonishing them for the poor turnout from the class at some protest or other. She actually said she was ashamed of us. The next day, she wrote a grovelling apology email so I’d say she had a full inbox of emails telling her where to go.

I hear you. I think it's fine "declaring" as in, we had a vote and the majority voted pro-choice.
But there should still be the place for everyone to express their views, without suppression.

eviltwin

I was in town yesterday. What stuck me was the age profile of those on the march, most I saw were over 65.
The age profile on the March for Choice was the opposite, mostly under 40.

I don't know how things will go in May but even if the referendum is defeated it's just a matter of time before we have abortion here. It's deluded to think otherwise.

amdublin

paw patrol wrote: »

secondly that catholic church stuff is bull**** , many people who are pro life aren't involved in the church. Some are. Many aren't.
The Catholics did it mantra it is a nonsensical as the Russians did it regarding Trumps election.

Yeah I am just basing it what I saw...a lot of priests and nuns, a lot of people carrying signs indicating they were part of a religions associations/group, and some statues (effigies??) I saw being carried.

Strangely enough I also heard some (would I go as far as saying a lot?) of American accents. I am thinking they don't have the vote too hopefully.

_Dara_

eviltwin wrote: »

I was in town yesterday. What stuck me was the age profile of those on the march, most I saw were over 65.
The age profile on the March for Choice was the opposite, mostly under 40.

I don't know how things will go in May but even if the referendum is defeated it's just a matter of time before we have abortion here. It's deluded to think otherwise.

Makes me think it will be very close this time around. Over 65s are among the best age groups for voting. But it makes me hopeful for the future.

I hope the MarRef results don’t make people complacent. This is a more contentious issue.

Nettle Soup

eviltwin wrote: »

I was in town yesterday. What stuck me was the age profile of those on the march, most I saw were over 65.
The age profile on the March for Choice was the opposite, mostly under 40.

I don't know how things will go in May but even if the referendum is defeated it's just a matter of time before we have abortion here. It's deluded to think otherwise.

Yep I think you are spot on. Again its an aging Roman church influence.

paw patrol

amdublin wrote: »

Yeah I am just basing it what I saw...a lot of priests and nuns, a lot of people carrying signs indicating they were part of a religions associations/group, and some statues (effigies??) I saw being carried.

Strangely enough I also heard some (would I go as far as saying a lot?) of American accents. I am thinking they don't have the vote too hopefully.

i passed the march on oConnell STreet and I disagree with your synopsis of the make-up - I'm not saying those people didn't exist , they did. But it was quite a varied selection of people..

Guess since we both aren't lying , it proves it was a big march and we saw different sections.

amdublin

paw patrol wrote: »

i passed the march on oConnell STreet and I disagree with your synopsis of the make-up - I'm not saying those people didn't exist , they did. But it was quite a varied selection of people..

Guess since we both aren't lying , it proves it was a big march and we saw different sections.

Lol. Umm no.

Oldtree

paw patrol wrote: »

i passed the march on oConnell STreet and I disagree with your synopsis of the make-up - I'm not saying those people didn't exist , they did. But it was quite a varied selection of people..

Guess since we both aren't lying , it proves it was a big march and we saw different sections.

When you say big, have you an attendance figure in mind, or are you just "big upping" the March?

Crea

Look even at 15,000 it was a big March. Let's not think all is well just because pro-life are giving a different number. The notion that all students are pro-choice just because it's a pro-choice campus is ridiculous too.
Now is not the time to be smug and gloating - it passes people off and dilutes the message.
This is too important.
#Repeal

PopePalpatine

Nettle Soup wrote: »

There is no way Ireland has that many busy bodies?

Just over 734,000 voted against marriage equality, they haven't gone away you know.

erica74 wrote: »

RTE say "in excess of 15,000 people" attended. It attracted people from all over the country and "some from overseas". Strange that people would come here from other countries to march against choice.

Not if you're aware of Ireland's historical position as the "crown jewel" of the pro-life movement. I remember EWTN (a reactionary/ultra-conservative Catholic TV station based in the USA) doing some sort of "emergency report" featuring many prominent Irish pro-lifers in the run up to the enactment of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.

Oldtree

Crea wrote: »

Look even at 15,000 it was a big March. Let's not think all is well just because pro-life are giving a different number. The notion that all students are pro-choice just because it's a pro-choice campus is ridiculous too.
Now is not the time to be smug and gloating - it passes people off and dilutes the message.
This is too important.
#Repeal

I don't think anyone is being smug or gloating and I hope not complacent. But organisers of the march are splashing 100,000 marchers all over the media and that should be met with the correction such a claim deserves at every juncture, for this important issue. Optics are important as any politician will tell you.

The supposed 15,000 is big for a county football match, not for a referendum rally that was cast as bring the biggest event ahead of the referendum.

Rte still has tens of thousands as it's headline while saying 15,000 + attended.

HandsomeBob

eviltwin wrote: »

I was in town yesterday. What stuck me was the age profile of those on the march, most I saw were over 65.
The age profile on the March for Choice was the opposite, mostly under 40.

I don't know how things will go in May but even if the referendum is defeated it's just a matter of time before we have abortion here. It's deluded to think otherwise.

If it's defeated how long do you think it will take for another vote to happen?

nice_guy80

there'll be a more at a national league football game today

so, no, It wasn't a big march

Pherekydes

Bonniedog wrote: »

Merrion Square was full of people while there were still people leaving Parnell Square!

Is this a Poe?

gandalf

eviltwin wrote: »

I was in town yesterday. What stuck me was the age profile of those on the march, most I saw were over 65.
The age profile on the March for Choice was the opposite, mostly under 40.

I don't know how things will go in May but even if the referendum is defeated it's just a matter of time before we have abortion here. It's deluded to think otherwise.

The thing is we know that the older generation will get out and vote. What is imperative to repeal the 8th is to ensure that the younger voters get out in numbers to push this over the line. All we have to do is look at our neighbours and see what the older generation have done to the youth of their country, long after these regressives are in their graves those left behind will be paying the price for their empire folly.

I look forward to us pulling ourselves further away from our theocratic past and into a true pluralistic society. Let's ensure these minority of backward dinosaurs don't continue to dictate the direction of our society.

IsaacWunder

HandsomeBob wrote: »

If it's defeated how long do you think it will take for another vote to happen?

Depends how close it is and the reasons why.

HandsomeBob

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Depends how close it is and the reasons why.

My concern would be such factors wouldn't be considered.

Brexit is an absolutely huge decision for millions of people. The fact that the vote was so tight hasn't forced another vote.

Oldtree

On the 6 o'clock news on our national station, the same rhetoric was reiterated last night. Watch the clip in the below link, and you will notice the announcer starts off with "tens of thousands marched" and then cuts to an organiser stating before the march that "tens of thousands" are expected.

Ask yourself how this come about on the 6 o'clock news, when Rte had already downed the number of marchers to 15,000+ in their published article well before the news was broadcast! Hardly unbiased reporting on such an important issue facing our country.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0310/946411-save-eighth-march/

average_runner

For the repel to win, they need to change their message. They are alienating the men vote which is a silly thing to do.

Saw messages saying men shouldn't vote on it.

gandalf

HandsomeBob wrote: »

My concern would be such factors wouldn't be considered.

Brexit is an absolutely huge decision for millions of people. The fact that the vote was so tight hasn't forced another vote.

And the Anti-choice side is extremely well funded by overseas fundamentalists and are able to get media exposure well beyond their actual support in this country. It would be poison for any mainstream politician initially to try and get it out back on the agenda.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

gandalf

average_runner wrote: »

For the repel to win, they need to change their message. They are alienating the men vote which is a silly thing to do.

Saw messages saying men shouldn't vote on it.

I would say these messages are not coming from repeal but could part of the dirty tricks from the Opus Dei/Youth Defense extremist of the forced birth side.

Oldtree

average_runner wrote: »

For the repel to win, they need to change their message. They are alienating the men vote which is a silly thing to do.

Saw messages saying men shouldn't vote on it.

Havn't seen that can you link please.

average_runner

Oldtree wrote: »

Havn't seen that can you link please.

Go thru the thread yourself. Not doing your work.

Repel need to play it wisely, play on the sympathy side, your target could be the father's of young daughters.

Nettle Soup

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Just over 734,000 voted against marriage equality, they haven't gone away you know.

Yes but I imagine at least 50% of those are embarrassed they voted No. They did it because they believed idiotic spin and fear-mongering from religious organisations. The world kept turning after the vote. In fact it became a happier place.

.