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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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Nettle Soup

Not repealing the 8th would be very mean spirited. It would be the last sting of a dying church perhaps but it would be morally wrong to do that to young women in Ireland.

I just hope people do some critical thinking on it instead of letting religious leaders or their parents decide for them.

Bannasidhe

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know how you could describe the crowd at the rally today desperate or on the ropes Dav, unless you desperately wanted to see it like that?
If you only ever mix with other people with the same opinion as you then it probably comes as a shock that so many others don’t agree with you and feel differently.
There was a 60% turnout for the SSM. Referendum and nearly 40% of those voted against SSM.
That’s a lot of people unhappy that SSM is legal.
You seem to think that there are a few thousand really old cranky people anti abortion.
That’s not the case at all.

It was 60.5% turnout.
62% voted yes - or 1,201,607 people.
38% voted no - or 734,300
Giving a majority of 467,307. Given that you like to round things off shall we call that half a million?

That's a pretty decisive victory.

It was the highest turnout for a Referendum vote since 1995's Dissolution of Marriage Ref (62.1%), which was less than 1992's Abortion related Ref (Right to travel/Suicide/Information etc) at 68.2/1%.
Between 1995 and 2015 there were 19 referenda - with turnouts of between 29.2% (Bail 1996) and 59.9% (Citizenship 2004)

https://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/housesoftheoireachtas/libraryresearch/lrsnotes/Election_Turnout_FINAL_28_Jan2016_180434.pdf

I think the people who are in for a shock are the ones who think old Ireland still exists. They need to take a long hard look at the country around them and realise that Ireland is dead and gone.

STB.

Rezident wrote: »

Why should a baby termination "service" be available in Ireland because it's 2018? How can you justify killing the only people on the planet that are innocent? If abortion without shame was possible then the pro-abortion lobby would at least be able to call themselves 'pro-abortion' but even they can't use the word, they have to go with the misleading title of 'pro-choice', that's a sign that they are hiding something.

Abortion is obviously wrong, no reasonable person would want someone they loved to go through an abortion. You know that some babies survive the abortion, and must be left to die of neglect, it's called 'comfort care'.

And as for the dead babies that you de-humanise as if they are some pest to be removed by a "service", what about them? Do you just not think about them? Pretend that they are not human? How do you do it?

I just want you to know that I was on the fence but your self righteous, judgemental attitude has moved me to a pro choice stance.

Thanks

david75

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know how you could describe the crowd at the rally today desperate or on the ropes Dav, unless you desperately wanted to see it like that?
If you only ever mix with other people with the same opinion as you then it probably comes as a shock that so many others don’t agree with you and feel differently.
There was a 60% turnout for the SSM. Referendum and nearly 40% of those voted against SSM.
That’s a lot of people unhappy that SSM is legal.
You seem to think that there are a few thousand really old cranky people anti abortion.
That’s not the case at all.

I didn’t say that about those in attendance today and you know that. I meant those trying really underhanded tactics that I mentioned in my previous post. And those people are involved in the pro life campaign and youth defence.

They’re losing it for themselves by their own stupidity and by assuming everyone is as stupid as them. Here we are talking about it the last few pages. And it’s all over twitter and Facebook. They’re literally trying to pull a fast one and everyone is aware. So that’s destroying trust in the plc.
I think you’re under playing and being disengenuous about marriage equality.
It wasn’t 40%. It was 32% against was it not? We won that one by a landslide.
Here we are three years later. And the sky is where we left it. No babies have been adopted to abuse them. Nobody’s married their dog or their sister etc etc

And you’re right. There are people out there still obviously unhappy about that.
Can I ask how it affects them at all? Three years later? Being angry cos other people can be equal and recognised as equal under our nations laws and on to love each other ?

It’s a mean spirited joyless and probably lonely person that thinks like that. But as you said. They’re out there.

Bonniedog

Oldtree wrote: »

Workers solidarity claiming 7,000 at rally. One has to wonder at the disparity in numbers being claimed.

:):):)

It was at least as big as the water charges march in December 2014. Easily 100,000.

Workers Solidarity are small sect of middle class wasters who lionise muggers and junkies as heroes of the revolution. Doubt there is a genuine worker among all their sorry asses

Ultra left is clearly spooked by today's massive turnout. The attempt to destroy the Irish people as a race through abortion and Leo's plans for more cheap labour and LIDL looters might be running into some hiccups.

STB.

[PHP][/PHP]

Deleted User wrote: »

jesus

thats pretty damning stuff

ive a general maxim that people active in campaigning to tell voters what to think are weirdos who presume far too much about their own opinion

but behaviour like uncovered in the last few posts should be of interest to the gardai. profoundly subversive and antidemocratic

shame on any prolifer in this thread who wouldnt disavow it

Pretty shocking alright. Between them and the american based and funded spin, you'll see more of it

Same person on RTE speaking on behalf of the Life Institute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QFiAx0nElY

erica74

Rezident wrote: »

Why should a baby termination "service" be available in Ireland because it's 2018? How can you justify killing the only people on the planet that are innocent? If abortion without shame was possible then the pro-abortion lobby would at least be able to call themselves 'pro-abortion' but even they can't use the word, they have to go with the misleading title of 'pro-choice', that's a sign that they are hiding something.

Abortion is obviously wrong, no reasonable person would want someone they loved to go through an abortion. You know that some babies survive the abortion, and must be left to die of neglect, it's called 'comfort care'.

And as for the dead babies that you de-humanise as if they are some pest to be removed by a "service", what about them? Do you just not think about them? Pretend that they are not human? How do you do it?

We say pro choice because we are PRO CHOICE. We are on the side of EVERY woman having a choice. If you don't want to have an abortion, you won't be forced to have one, you'll have the choice. Do you understand that?

david75

Bonniedog wrote: »

:):):)

It was at least as big as the water charges march in December 2014. Easily 100,000.

Workers Solidarity are small sect of middle class wasters who lionise muggers and junkies as heroes of the revolution. Doubt there is a genuine worker among all their sorry asses

Ultra left is clearly spooked by today's massive turnout. The attempt to destroy the Irish people as a race through abortion and Leo's plans for more cheap labour and LIDL looters might be running into some hiccups.

Laughable. You really believe it was that many people fair enough. It demonstrably wasn’t. And it seems at least 40% of the crowd were minors.
Gardai wouldn’t have even been able to handle that many people either and they estimated about 6k

Regardless a great many of those in attendance were all from overseas and travelled over for it, it seems. Neither them nor the kids can vote.

Bannasidhe

Bonniedog wrote: »

:):):)

Ultra left is clearly spooked by today's massive turnout. The attempt to destroy the Irish people as a race through abortion and Leo's plans for more cheap labour and LIDL looters might be running into some hiccups.

Is this your's by any chance?

Bonniedog

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Is this your's by any chance?

I equally despise totalitarians of the left and right. They are mirror images of one another, and indeed were allies from 1939 - 1941 when Hitler came close to victory with the aid of Stalin. Indeed today they espouse an anti Semitism that is close to that rag which you posted.

Ultra left and leftist opportunists like the shinners in this country are a sad joke. They are the most enthusiastic supporters of policies that most impact negatively on the "workers." Useful idiots.

baylah17

Bonniedog wrote: »

Oldtree wrote: »

Workers solidarity claiming 7,000 at rally. One has to wonder at the disparity in numbers being claimed.

:):):)

It was at least as big as the water charges march in December 2014. Easily 100,000.

Workers Solidarity are small sect of middle class wasters who lionise muggers and junkies as heroes of the revolution. Doubt there is a genuine worker among all their sorry asses

Ultra left is clearly spooked by today's massive turnout. The attempt to destroy the Irish people as a race through abortion and Leo's plans for more cheap labour and LIDL looters might be running into some hiccups.

Mummy and Daddy need to revoke your internet privliges
Lol

Bonniedog

david75 wrote: »

Laughable. You really believe it was that many people fair enough. It demonstrably wasn’t. And it seems at least 40% of the crowd were minors.
Gardai wouldn’t have even been able to handle that many people either and they estimated about 6k

Regardless a great many of those in attendance were all from overseas and travelled over for it, it seems. Neither them nor the kids can vote.

You know this how

There were at least 100,000 there. If you want to delude yourself otherwise, I am sure it fits perfectly well with your dysfunctional grasp of reality.

Hoboo

david75 wrote: »

40% of the crowd were minors.......Regardless a great many of those in attendance were all from overseas and travelled over for it, it seems.

Are these facts, have you a source/link please?

Bonniedog

baylah17 wrote: »

Mummy and Daddy need to revoke your internet privliges
Lol

Is that a proposition from Wittgenstein?

And no, he didn't play for Bayern Munich. oh, the never ending fun provided by leftist imbeciles. Worth the entry fee.

Bannasidhe

Bonniedog wrote: »

Is that a proposition from Wittgenstein?

And no, he didn't play for Bayern Munich. oh, the never ending fun provided by leftist imbeciles. Worth the entry fee.

Indeed.
But you are no fun as all you have is empty right wing babble and so many have spouted that rubbish with far greater elan than you.
Perhaps when you have finished venting your spleen we can have a reasoned discussion.

pleas advice

i doubt it

_Dara_

splinter65 wrote: »

What makes you think that they’re not happy with the turn out?

Well, a pro-life acquaintance of mine has a photo of herself at the march today on Facebook right now with #100000 and “with 100,000 amazing Irish people” written on it.

Oldtree

Bonniedog wrote: »

You know this how

There were at least 100,000 there. If you want to delude yourself otherwise, I am sure it fits perfectly well with your dysfunctional grasp of reality.

Well now, well now....

Are you suggesting Rte cannot count to the really big numbers? Their 15,000 is an overestimation imo of the number that were there from the footage and photos I have seen and the length of somthing thin does not indicate the number involved.

In excess of 15,000 people attended the rally at Merrion Square.

There was no official estimate of how many attended the actual march but at one stage it stretched from the city quays to Parnell Square North.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0310/946411-save-eighth-march/

Bonniedog

Merrion Square was full of people while there were still people leaving Parnell Square!

I saw both today's rally and the big water charges rally in December 2014. Todays was bigger.

Will also be bewildering to the numbskulls on the left that many were on both those protests.

Lots of Poles and Africans on rally. Something you never see at leftist hootenannies, Do these people not know that Sorcha and Jason with some 2:2 "social sciences" certificate know what is best for them?

Which lack of understanding of the Irish people is why the ultra left is an insignificant pimple on the arse of Ireland, puppets of the sutherlands and Merkels.

Shinners used to have some insight into that but are now dominated by people who are not republicans and should really just leave before they destroy it. No wonder Jorry the paedophile protector didn't want to resign and leave his life's work in the hands of idiots like McDonald and O'Broin :-)

[Deleted User]

Bonniedog wrote: »

Lots of Poles and Africans on rally. Something you never see at leftist hootenannies, Do these people not know that Sorcha and Jason with some 2:2 "social sciences" certificate know what is best for them?

Repeal has cross party support in case you didn't notice. Fine Gael is the most conservative party in the Dail and they have done their best to kick the can down the road for as long as they possibly could. We're only getting a referendum now because they see which direction public opinion is going.

Also I find it interesting that you object to "Sorcha and Jason" supposedly telling others what's best for them, when you are dictating that women must be forced to give birth no matter their circumstances. How very hypocritical.

eviltwin

I wonder how many of the foreign nationals at the march yesterday are eligible to vote.....

dav3

splinter65 wrote: »

What makes you think that they’re not happy with the turn out?

I said "the organisers certainly aren't happy". The organisers of these events are generally unhappy people. Once the cameras are off, it's back to a life of misery, intolerance and hatred.

As one of the last marches before the referendum, they were expecting over 100,000 people in attendance. This morning they've woken up scratching their heads wondering why so many people decided to stay away yesterday.

suicide_circus

I hear you're a racist now father

erica74

RTE say "in excess of 15,000 people" attended. It attracted people from all over the country and "some from overseas". Strange that people would come here from other countries to march against choice.

pilly

Bonniedog wrote:

It was at least as big as the water charges march in December 2014. Easily 100,000.

Wrong

Achasanai

Bonniedog wrote: »

Merrion Square was full of people while there were still people leaving Parnell Square!

I saw both today's rally and the big water charges rally in December 2014. Todays was bigger.

There may have been people leaving Parnell Square, but at 15,000 for the march, there would have been a fairly substantial gap between them and all of ye in Merrion Square.

Bonniedog wrote: »

Lots of Poles and Africans on rally. Something you never see at leftist hootenannies, Do these people not know that Sorcha and Jason with some 2:2 "social sciences" certificate know what is best for them?

How would you know who attends these leftist hootenannies? I assure you there are Poles and Africans in attendance. Because Poles and Africans occupy a vast range of the political spectrum, from extreme left to extreme right, and everywhere in between.

Bonniedog wrote: »

Which lack of understanding of the Irish people is why the ultra left is an insignificant pimple on the arse of Ireland, puppets of the sutherlands and Merkels.

15,000 marching when 100,000 were expected would suggest that the insignificance certainly isn't on the repeal side.

[Deleted User]

100,000 people. Catch yourselves on, that's a ridiculous statement.

Oldtree

circadian wrote: »

100,000 people. Catch yourselves on, that's a ridiculous statement.

It smacks of desperation, having seen in reality that the expected public support is not there for a particular belief. A desperation born of seeing a juggernaut of change, for historical attitudes, having already occurred and again comming to this country shortly.

amdublin

It's far from over yet.

It was a positive for the repeal side that there was a lower than expected turnout yesterday. I would say that even the 15000 number is being generous - but hey what do I know I just live near Parnell and see all of the marches that start out from there.
It is also a positive for the pro-choicers that so many in attendance yesterday are small children who don't have vote.

Indications from a lot of the colleges and universities around Ireland are that they are pro-choice campuses. The repeal side really need all those students to come #hometovote

Those marches however still show how tight of a grip the Catholic church still has over a lot of the country people that they could rustle up 15000 on to the coaches and up to Dublin

Nettle Soup

circadian wrote: »

100,000 people. Catch yourselves on, that's a ridiculous statement.

There is no way Ireland has that many busy bodies?