Sam Russell wrote: » Well, yes there are stations at three of the LCs but not at Sandymount Ave. However, not all trains stop at all stations. Diesels do not stop at Sandymount, and many do not stop at Lansdowne or Sydney Parade. Also, there is not consistent speed of any trains - some race by and some creep by.
blanch152 wrote: » Isn't speed a consideration also?
MJohnston wrote: » blanch152 wrote: » Isn't speed a consideration also? It is, but as Sam Russell pointed out, there are stations right beside nearly every level crossing on the south DART section we've been discussing, which means trains would be slow anyway. Similar at somewhere like Clonsilla too.
roadmaster wrote: » i was thinking with the current full out assault on the diesel engine just look this week what happened in Germany with the diesel cars ruling and even Toyota's announcement yesterday to finish up production of diesel cars could we be looking at pressure on IE to get rid of there diesel trains sooner than we think either through pure electrification or hybrids? This could force them to speed up dart expansion especially in commuter runs.
bk wrote: » I've heard some mutterings about using Biogas for buses and trains. It is not a local zero emissions technology like fully electric is, but it is better then Diesel and helps greatly with CO2 emissions. Perhaps hybrid electric/Biogas? I'm not sure how realistic it is. To be fair, just going hybrid electric/diesel and electrifying the commuter lines and having those trains run electric closer to the city would be a fantastic step in the right direction, trains running Diesel further out wouldn't be as big an issue.
FreudianSlippers wrote: » Electric isn't really zero emissions in Ireland anyway, given the fairly dirty electricity we create.
Sam Russell wrote: » That is justification for more trains from Wexford. There could be an extra Dart train to provide for the Wexford passengers. The Wexford train has 3 or 4 coaches and so, even at crush, would not fill a 8 coach Dart. The replacemet Dart need not stop at all station to Connolly, only at those served by the diesel. That is a timetable issue. Any train turned back at Bray is an hour or more worth of train time available for either more service to Wexford to other services. Currently a 6 coach IC train heads down from Connolly to DL at about 10 am to park, and return empty at 1:15 pm from DL back again to Connolly. If there is a shortage of stock, maybe they could use that set for something. There is plenty of dead running on the system as it is.
LXFlyer wrote: » Expecting everyone to detrain at Bray on a busy peak hour commuter service is frankly nuts..
LeinsterDub wrote: » Busy by what metric? Certainly not busier than Dart and Dublin commuter trains. In an ideal world we'd have capacity on the mainline to run all the services we want but we quite simply don't. Why is asking people to walk about 10 metres nuts? People don't give a second thought interchanging between Buses, Luas or Dart.
murphaph wrote: » You wouldn't need to close the up and down lines. You do one at a time. You drive a steel retaining wall into the ground and work on one side. The other side has single line running. There's single line running on some stretch of the Berlin ubahn (and any other major mass transit system in the world, lest some people get their knickers in a twist about a German example-didn't realise this had become like the comments section of the Daily Express!) probably every day. It's what signals are for. We raised the N25 (now N40 I believe) over the roundabouts without shutting it. The only issue here is nimbyism. But if you bought a property adjacent to a railway you have to accept it may see development.
Ireland trains wrote: » If irish rail speed up the trains to rosslare increase the service to 7pd they could have off peak trains terminating at Bray and peak time trains to Dublin. Also possible with the bi mode trains to extend some DART services to wicklow
bk wrote: » To be honest, I expect this issue will go away in time. I suspect the Deisels will end up terminating at Bray and it will be only DARTs running on this section. Alternatively, the Diesels get replaced by hybrid Diesel/Electrics and they end running similar speeds and stops as DARTs. Once you get to 10 minute or lower DARTs you can't continue to mix DMU's and EMU's like they have until now.
LXFlyer wrote: » The notion that you need to terminate the trains at Bray is a nonsense.
LeinsterDub wrote: » If the capacity exists then I agree with you but we have been told be need DU as the mainline is a bottle neck so which is it?
D.L.R. wrote: » DU would solve the Maynooth conflict, but it's not the only way to eliminate it. If you moved all Maynooth line services to the western side of the station you'd have no conflict with northern line trains. So for Maynooth commuter trains, just run them through the Dart platforms and across the Loop. And for Intercity to Sligo etc, there's a huge car park and defunct wheelhouse beside the Dart platforms that regulars would be familiar with. Build a platform there and terminate Sligo trains on it. There's also a lot of space between the Dart platforms and main station as anyone who's walked through the station for a Dart will be aware. There are options if there is money to spend. Open to correction, but I think that removes all conflicts. People talk about Connolly as if its this insurmountable rock in the centre of the network and the only answer is to avoid it. But there's plenty of scope to improve it if the state was willing to spend the money and get serious about rail. We should be thinking of more engineering solutions around Connolly.
LXFlyer wrote: » Sorry to burst your bubble, but any train going across the loop line bridge from the Maynooth line will have to cross over the northbound line at Connolly at some point (either north or south of the station) to access the southbound line.
D.L.R. wrote: » What if you realign the platforms so that Maynooth have two dedicated tracks west of the Dart?
bk wrote: » Zero emissions pertains to local pollution. Their is literally zero emissions out of the back of an EV or DART. No PM's or NOX, like from a Diesel which cause cancer and various other horrible health issues. So yes they are zero emissions and if that was their only benefit it would still be well worth it. Eliminating Diesel from our cities would make them much healthier. Global emissions, CO2 which causes global warming is a bit more complicated. Of course it depends on how the electricity is generated. EV's and EMU's at least have the ability to be zero emissions. It differs from country to country depending on how each country generates electricity. For instance in Norway or France they would be really close to be truly zero emissions as they use Hydro and Nuclear to generate electricity. Here in Ireland we generate our electricity about 25% wind, 50% gas (which produces WAY less CO2 then Diesel or coal) and 25% coal/peat. This means these aren't zero emissions in terms of CO2, but they are still WAY better then diesel. An EV in Ireland produces about 1/3rd the amount of CO2 per 100km travelled versus a typical Diesel car. So still well worth it. And an important point, the grid can get cleaner, which of course makes all EV's and EMU's even cleaner. 20 years ago the grid was far dirtier then today. 2% wind, 65% coal/peat, 25% gas, it has cut the amount of co2 almost in half in the past 20 years and it will only continue to get cleaner. Wind continues to ramp up and the government has already announced that the peat plants and moneypoint (the only coal plant left) will be converted or closed by 2030. So no, our electricity is not fairly dirty.
LXFlyer wrote: » There are only two tracks on the loop line bridge. To access the southbound one any train would have to cross the northbound one at grade north of or directly south of Connolly. There is no way around that. You’d avoid conflicts all right with your proposal, provided no Maynooth line trains went south of Connolly.
Stephen15 wrote: » I think that BRT (if being built) should be built as a trolleybus system as trolleybuses would be easier to run to run than EVs as they don't require charging and are more reliable than an EV atm. I don't see why Dublin can't have some trolleybus lines they would be cheaper to build than light rail and most modern trolleybuses can run off the wires if needs be.
bk wrote: » Though there is talk about three door double deckers now, so maybe we will get some of those lovely Berlin style dual stairs, three door double deckers on this routes.
hmmm wrote: » Only worth bothering if passengers could board at any door IMO. The slowdowns are at loading, and rarely at unloading.
LXFlyer wrote: » Let's be honest about this, the future of the railway line south of Greystones is primarily as a commuter service into and out of Dublin. Since the M11 opened the coach services have cornered the market to/from Gorey, Enniscorthy and Wexford, and the notion that the railway is going to be a serious competitor for that Intercity market is a fantasy, due to the speed restrictions and the inland diversion via Rathdrum. The need for trains is towards Dublin in the morning peak and in the evenings southwards. The main market is from Arklow northwards. Expecting everyone to detrain at Bray on a busy peak hour commuter service is frankly nuts. It's also an insult to people paying a premium (i.e. Intercity prices) for their tickets to expect them to use a DART connection between Bray and the city centre.
bk wrote: » Interestingly your first paragraph above clearly shows why the trains should be terminated at Bray and people transferred to DART. So few are using the line, then it better to slightly discommode them for a better service for the vastly greater numbers of passengers on the line north of Bray and ironically would also give a better service south of Bray (allow it to be turned around quicker. Lets out some actual numbers to this. According to the 2015 rail census, just 2,117 people used the intercity service on the South Eastern Line and that includes people getting on at Greystones and Dun Laoghaire. By comparison 23,000 got on from Bray in. In fact adding up all the stations south of Greystones, it is a whopping 681 people!! So you are talking about just 681 people versus 20,000+ I have to say, people need to get use to the idea of changing transport for an overall better service. We are going to see this happen at south of Sandyford when the Green Line is upgraded to Metro. It is going to happen way more across the Dublin City Bus network with Bus Connects. We will likely to see it happen at Howth Junction and around Connolly when the other lines are electrified. Changing trains/buses/trams is absolutely normal on a high quality public transport network.
LXFlyer wrote: » People are paying full Intercity fares south of Greystones - not suburban fares and as such I think are entitled to a through service.
