J C wrote: » Quite true ... and the strident 'me and my body alone ... and to hell with the unborn child' kind of talk at some of these rallies, will turn off Joe public completely ... and move him to the pro-life side.
david75 wrote: » You can probably count the amount of undecided voters at this rally or a pro life rally without even using a finger, in fairness. Numbers only matter as a reflection and gauge of public mood and that is important, but it also subtly influences joe public who isn’t all that engaged and they see it in the news or whatever.
Delirium wrote: » Pending the result of the referendum of course. Post-vote may paint a very different picture of what the people think.
Delirium wrote: » I was talking about moral responsibility. If repeal happens, I very much doubt that pro-life people will shrug off what they see as a moral responsibility to the unborn.
Delirium wrote: » I'm not talking about post-abortion prosecution, rather not allowing women to travel for an abortion. Irish law would stop the abortion by not allowing travel to a jurisdiction where they could have an abortion.
Delirium wrote: » It would be even more bizarre if N.Ireland had abortion laws as per England. Women could just take a spin up the motorway to have an abortion without leaving the island. You say it would be unjust to prosecute someone for having an abortion in another country, but is it not unjust that the unborn are killed?
J C wrote: » The strident 'me and my body alone ... and to hell with the unborn child' kind of talk at some of these rallies, will convince nobody, only themselves, on abortion.
david75 wrote: » Looking at the sheer numbers in attendance at the marches all over the country tonight I’m pretty sure this referendum will pass and pass comfortably. You can’t fake these numbers (or the final tally at the ballot box), there’s a palpable drive and energy towards repeal and the numbers and support oevidenced this evening nationwide is astonishing. Especially given the predominant demographic in attendance were the youth. So great to see them involved and engaged in enacting change and determine their own and their country’s future. Wonderful to see them be involved in such huge numbers
end of the road wrote: » the actual numbers may not be as much as they may look to be. i have been to many protests in my life and when you are there or see them on tv there looks to be a lot more there then there actually are. also, some will have just gone along and won't necessarily be interested in the issue and may not be planning to vote.
J C wrote: » You could have a point there ... the sentence for procured abortion in Ireland at up to 14 years, is in the same league as sentences for child abuse. This is a measure of how seriously the people of Ireland though of abortion ... and many still do.
Geography doesn't remove anything ... but the law does. In the case of child abuse there is no state that tolerates it ... and certainly no state that has statute law allowing it.
In Europe there is statute law that allows abortion in many countries ... and under European Law abortion is considered a legally available service in many countries. Nobody can therefore be prosecuted in Ireland for availing of services that are legally available in other EU countries. This is the legal situation ... and I don't have any issue with it TBH ... it would be quite bizzarre (and unjust) if somebody obeyed the law in another European country ... but was then prosecuted when they came to Ireland because what they did in another European happened to be illegal in Ireland.
volchitsa wrote: » If it's really "killing your own child" then how is any reason acceptable?
volchitsa wrote: » Yet you just said you wouldnt ban it. Would you remove the ban on murder because it happens anyway?
Delirium wrote: » But if abortion is the killing of an innocent child, why doesn't it not warrant the same legal view as someone travelling to molest children?
Delirium wrote: » How does geography remove your moral responsibility to the unborn considering you view it as a human being from conception?
volchitsa wrote: » But when we have had a teenage girl locked up in a psychiatric ward for asking for an abortion
volchitsa wrote: » another forced to undergo a c section under threat of being sectioned
volchitsa wrote: » I dont think it's possible to defend a law like that and call oneself a supporter of human rights, never mind a feminist.
volchitsa wrote: » I don't quite understand what you are saying : abortion is acceptable for the reasons that you think acceptable? What if the pregnant woman thinks her reason is absolutely acceptable and you dont? Why should your opinion count for her life?
mariemoon wrote: » Is it acceptable for an unborn child die because the mother wanted ? "having a child doesn't suit my lifestyle" is definitely not a good reason for killing your own child. Someone commented this earlier
mariemoon wrote: » Again im not against banning it. Because it will always be there, in London or in someone's basement. I am gainst abortion being freely for anyone. Maybe u should read page 299 and 298 to understand my point. Yes we need the service for special circumstances only.
volchitsa wrote: » As an argument for banning something though, it's extremely weak. So weak as to make me suspect that it is no more than an excuse to justify what they already believe. Has anyone ever suggested banning all marriages on the grounds that forced marriage exists?
mariemoon wrote: » Not sure about her, but there are pro life feminists.
mariemoon wrote: » She right in this part. Asked if the women were not undergoing abortions by choice, Ms McDonald said: “Absolutely not. They are coerced by boyfriends, husbands, mothers, fathers – I’ve seen it all.” This has been going on for centuries
david75 wrote: » I’m sure there are but It’s rather a paradoxical position to hold.
david75 wrote: » Ah yes, a "Pro-Life Feminist" : Asked if women should also be able to chose not to be mothers, she said: “Of course, but you don’t have sex if you don’t want to be a mother. That’s the scientific facts.” i The resounding stupidity of this statement. From a former nurse no less. . Of course she’s serious. Read for the awkward comedy alonehttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/pro-life-feminists-protest-against-referendum-plans-1.3419862
david75 wrote: » Ah yes, a "Pro-Life Feminist" : Asked if women should also be able to chose not to be mothers, she said: “Of course, but you don’t have sex if you don’t want to be a mother. That’s the scientific facts.” The resounding stupidity of this statement. From a former nurse no less. . Of course she’s serious. Read for the awkward comedy alonehttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/pro-life-feminists-protest-against-referendum-plans-1.3419862
WhiteRoses wrote: » And that is your choice. However, not everyone would feel the same as you and it’s highly selfish and narrow minded to want to inflict your personal morals and stance as the whole of society. I’m saying this as a women of a similar age to you, who would never have an abortion, who has had a stillbirth and who has no other children. I respect and encourage choice. If we can’t even trust women to make a choice for themselves, how can we trust them with the responsibility of reading another human?
WhiteRoses wrote: » Selfish is bringing an unwanted life into the world when you don’t have the means (financially, physically or emotionally) to support it. Do you really think it’s in the best interests of a child to be born to a mother who never wanted him? Is it fair to inflict a substandard childhood on a child in that situation? No woman would get an abortion unless it was absolutely necessary. You have to consider what circumstances a woman might be in to come to such a decision, and then trust her that she made the right choice. If she thinks she is unable to care for a child, who are we to force her? Who are we to force that kind of upbringing on a child? A huge problem here is the weaponising of children, turning them into pawns of punishment to inflict on their ‘careless/promiscuous’ their careless mothers. Its disgusting.
WhiteRoses wrote: » adopting in Ireland is an extremely lengthy, expensive and emotionally draining journey, so most looking to adopt do so internationally from countries such as Vietnam and China. There are unfortunately way way too many children stuck in foster care, though.
recedite wrote: » There would appear to be a severe shortage of "unwanted" newborn babies then.
WhiteRoses wrote: » Domestic adoption is non existent in Ireland, in 2016 (most recent stats) there were only 5 newborn babies adopted in this country.
