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Overtourism

_Dara_

This is a topic I've been pondering for a while. Last summer, as I was jetting off to Lisbon on honeymoon, stories started to break in the media about an anti-tourism demonstration that was happening in Barcelona. We were travelling at peak season, August, because for various reasons that was the only time that suited us. I had never travelled anywhere in peak season before and I knew it would be busy but I was not at all prepared for exactly how busy it would be. Before I continue, let me acknowledge that I'm part of the problem. I'm not special, I'm a tourist like anyone else. We had to skip some of the sites in Lisbon because we'd have been standing in a queue for up to two hours to get in and I physically can't do that.

When I got back, I read more about the demonstrations in Barcelona. I read that there are five times as many overnight visitors to the city as there was twenty years ago and between 2013 and 2015, the overnight tourist numbers rose by 600,000.

Iceland is another country that has seen tourism take off since 2010 thanks to both a big marketing campaign, cheap flights, Airbnb and the volcanic eruption that piqued people's interest in the country. It has been experiencing some problems because of it, although the country seems mostly happy with the increased tourism as it helped get them out of an economic hole. And, again, I'm part of it because I was there six months ago.

I guess what I've been wondering about is what is the solution here? Certain cities and countries have started to strictly restrict tourist numbers and cap the amount of cruise ships that can dock at their ports. But if everywhere eventually does this, will tourism become an elitist pursuit again? Shouldn't everyone have the right to travel? But as the global population increases will popular tourist areas become overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of tourists and will it mean that the cost of tourism outweighs the benefits to the local economy?

What do people think?

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Pero_Bueno

I was in Lisbon last Easter, we went to Sintra and it was the worst touristic experience I have had in my life, it was so packed it was just impossible to enjoy.
I was in Iceland aswell in September and it was bad - but was easy to find your own spot and escape from the droves of idiots*.

My fear is that even these out of the way areas that you can find some space will become packed, thanks to apps like tripadvisor, instantly they get tagged and some
travel blogger tosser writes a hit piece on it and it goes viral - always find it amazing when someone who bloggs about the hidden unspoilt places is actually spoiling them
by ****ing writing about them.

In the Grand Canyon years ago (2014) I noticed too that the village was packed - but - take a 10 minute walk and you can easily by alone ... again - how long this will last ??

And Ireland - I am afraid to return to the west , the place where I had my best childhood holidays in the 80s and 90s - I was at the cliffs of Moher in 2006 and nearly cried when I saw the
tacky **** they have put up - I remember when it was a dirt track up there and you would be the only visitors to the place.
Now its coach after coach of Americans who think they are visiting their ancestral homeland.
And Skellig Micheal !! f*ck that ... it's Star Wars now ... isn't it great that Disney left Luke Skywalkers huts on the island though - just to make the selfies cooler ??

**** this I can't wait till the next crash.

*Yes I am one of those idiots.

wakka12

Im not personally bothered by being around other tourists or going to 'tourist traps', Id only find it annoying if there was crowds so big that it was actually uncomfortable to move or very loud . Many people seem to be really put out by being around other tourists even if they are one themselves. I don't get it,the tourist traps are usually interesting even if overpriced or a little overrated, they're attracting tourists for a reason

I find it a lot more cringy seeing people going over to somewhere and trying to be like a local, or something, when they're jus like every other uncultured tourist :P

_Dara_

wakka12 wrote: »

Im not personally bothered by being around other tourists or going to 'tourist traps', Id only find it annoying if there was crowds so big that it was actually uncomfortable to move or very loud . Many people seem to be really put out by being around other tourists even if they are one themselves. I don't get it,the tourist traps are usually interesting even if overpriced or a little overrated, they're attracting tourists for a reason

I find it a lot more cringy seeing people going over to somewhere and trying to be like a local, or something, when they're jus like every other uncultured tourist :P

Some of the places in Lisbon were at that uncomfortable level. The aquarium was absolutely brutal. I can’t believe they let so many people in. The Timeout market was stressful too and tbh, I regret going there because it is a purpose-built tourist trap.

Whereas in Iceland, the level of the September crowds was grand. There was lots of tourists but these were in wide open spaces.

[Deleted User]

wakka12 wrote: »

Im not personally bothered by being around other tourists or going to 'tourist traps', Id only find it annoying if there was crowds so big that it was actually uncomfortable to move or very loud . Many people seem to be really put out by being around other tourists even if they are one themselves. I don't get it,the tourist traps are usually interesting even if overpriced or a little overrated, they're attracting tourists for a reason

I find it a lot more cringy seeing people going over to somewhere and trying to be like a local, or something, when they're jus like every other uncultured tourist :P

For me it's just about money. :P

_Dara_

wakka12 wrote: »

I find it a lot more cringy seeing people going over to somewhere and trying to be like a local, or something, when they're jus like every other uncultured tourist :P

Well, at least they are trying to gain some understanding of the local culture. I doubt anyone would call themselves an expert after a short holiday either.

joeysoap

My last post on this (promise)

Off peak season I find all the ‘usual’ tourist destination to be fine, ok haven’t been to Venice, but the rest were fine, Sintra was not bad at all (that was Easter). Istanbul was fairly packed alright (October) but that was mostly locals. One street was like Henry Street on Christmas Eve- all the time. Near Taxim Square. What I did learn in Istanbul is that when they celebrate a holiday (end of Ramadan) all public transport is (or was) free, including ferries across the Bosporus , and that little cable car spin. Can’t wait for that to happen here.

ameirecan

Why do tourists take photos of the famous landmarks when they travel? It's utterly pointless. There are literally millions of photos of the Eiffel tower online, taken from every conceivable angle and viewpoint, and done by professionals at a much higher quality than the ones you took on your iPhone. I remember watching a Chinese tourist spend about 15 minutes setting up his tripod and adjusting his camera lens to get the perfect photo of the Eiffel tower. What do people gain from this?

Bob Harris

ameirecan wrote: »

Why do tourists take photos of the famous landmarks when they travel? It's utterly pointless. There are literally millions of photos of the Eiffel tower online, taken from every conceivable angle and viewpoint, and done by professionals at a much higher quality than the ones you took on your iPhone. I remember watching a Chinese tourist spend about 15 minutes setting up his tripod and adjusting his camera lens to get the perfect photo of the Eiffel tower. What do people gain from this?

I remember thinking the same in the Louvre. People were 3 or 4 deep around the Mona Lisa clambouring for a postion to take a photo of it so they could have it buried deep in their memory card never to be looked at again. Buy a postcard on the way out for 50c. Perfect image of the painting. And you have a postcard.

irishguitarlad

_Dara_ wrote: »

Some of the places in Lisbon were at that uncomfortable level. The aquarium was absolutely brutal. I can’t believe they let so many people in. The Timeout market was stressful too and tbh, I regret going there because it is a purpose-built tourist trap.

Whereas in Iceland, the level of the September crowds was grand. There was lots of tourists but these were in wide open spaces.

I'm heading there during holy week to avoid the madness of Seville. I can't get over with what you said about the tarts, the monastery is a UNESCO world heritage sight like. Anyways when I was in Florence I didn't enjoy the Ufizzi as there was two many chinese tourists blocking the paintings and taking photos of them. The only good part was the non Italian painters as it was off to the side and not many people went in there, so one could relax and enjoy the art.

Skedaddle

I can fully understand why cruise ships are annoying. Effectively, you're sailing a huge hotel into often a very historic area or places like Iceland and the Scottish islands which have extremely low populations and very little physical infrastructure to deal with vast numbers of people.

Then those tourists don't spend any money as they have everything on the ship and are in all-in packages. So they just arrive, walk around like a herd of sheep, clog the place up and use all the facilities and spend little or nothing.

Effectively, the destination is subsidising the cruise operator and setting far less benefit than they would from a normal tourists.

Iceland will probably choke on tourism tbh. They need it to get money in to the economy after the crash but at the same time they're finding it irritating due to the scale and it's also becoming eye wateringly expensive again.

I could see Iceland managing it back down again over the next few years, particularly as other aspects of their economy spin back into action.

You can also kill a tourism destination by over commercialising it too. That's where Iceland I think needs to keep the balance.

The J Stands for Jay

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I'm heading there during holy week to avoid the madness of Seville. I can't get over with what you said about the tarts, the monastery is a UNESCO world heritage sight like. Anyways when I was in Florence I didn't enjoy the Ufizzi as there was two many chinese tourists blocking the paintings and taking photos of them. The only good part was the non Italian painters as it was off to the side and not many people went in there, so one could relax and enjoy the art.

TBH, when I went to Florence I didn't go into any of the galleries. Didn't see the point of queuing up to join a queue to squint through a crowd at a painting. It was much nicer wandering round the place.

_Dara_

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I'm heading there during holy week to avoid the madness of Seville. I can't get over with what you said about the tarts, the monastery is a UNESCO world heritage sight like. Anyways when I was in Florence I didn't enjoy the Ufizzi as there was two many chinese tourists blocking the paintings and taking photos of them. The only good part was the non Italian painters as it was off to the side and not many people went in there, so one could relax and enjoy the art.

Oh, at peak times the monastery has similar queues. We didn’t bother with the monastery, the queues were so formidable.

_Dara_

Skedaddle wrote: »

I can fully understand why cruise ships are annoying. Effectively, you're sailing a huge hotel into often a very historic area or places like Iceland and the Scottish islands which have extremely low populations and very little physical infrastructure to deal with vast numbers of people.

Then those tourists don't spend any money as they have everything on the ship and are in all-in packages. So they just arrive, walk around like a herd of sheep, clog the place up and use all the facilities and spend little or nothing.

Effectively, the destination is subsidising the cruise operator and setting far less benefit than they would from a normal tourists.

Iceland will probably choke on tourism tbh. They need it to get money in to the economy after the crash but at the same time they're finding it irritating due to the scale and it's also becoming eye wateringly expensive again.

I could see Iceland managing it back down again over the next few years, particularly as other aspects of their economy spin back into action.

You can also kill a tourism destination by over commercialising it too. That's where Iceland I think needs to keep the balance.

And Iceland has a very delicate natural environment. Off-road driving is illegal there because of that but people do it anyway, damaging the environment. They also are having problems with tourists getting into car crashes because they can’t handle the roads that are gravelly and many travel in winter to see the Lights but can’t hack the winter driving conditions. Landowners have also been closing off roads due to issues with tourists.

It’s such a special place though and I can see why people want to go there. I loved it!

TomSweeney

I remember being in Rome once - Christ the Cistine chapel was a ****ing nightmare!!!!

Could not enjoy it !

St Peters sq and church was fine, we went really early and again - open spaces is grand.
Same for the colleseum, but Cistine chapel I would never ever set foot in again.

irishguitarlad

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh, at peak times the monastery has similar queues. We didn’t bother with the monastery, the queues were so formidable.

Balls

irishguitarlad

McGaggs wrote: »

TBH, when I went to Florence I didn't go into any of the galleries. Didn't see the point of queuing up to join a queue to squint through a crowd at a painting. It was much nicer wandering round the place.

The Bargello was worth it though;)

munchkin_utd

I must be lucky with my travels. Was at Lake Garda at height of summer and never a problem getting a place in a restaurant nor were the towns particularly full. Also been a few times over easter and also grand, accommodation relatively cheap and no crowds anywhere.
Was also in Bruges in mid summer and not an issue.
Windsor castle was busy in England to see some poxy dolls house, but in around the place was grand.
London city, grand.
The cotswolds in peak summer season, grand.
Galway in mid august, grand.
Anywhere I've been in Germany or Austria during the peak summer holidays, grand.

I've seen yanks on trip advisor asking how to avoid "the crowds" during the holidays, but really theres so many places that arent overran that I do wonder if its really only the few places like Lisbon, Barca, Amsterdam and Venice that are overran and everywhere else is grand.

_Dara_

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Balls

Another poster was there off peak and said it was empty, so you might be fine!

I was there in August.

topper75

swift18 wrote: »

barcelona

Barcelona is a wonderful city.

But note that it is also the European epicentre of contrarian ne'er-do-wells and student marxists.

Ignore them and enjoy.

Skedaddle

_Dara_ wrote: »

And Iceland has a very delicate natural environment. Off-road driving is illegal there because of that but people do it anyway, damaging the environment. They also are having problems with tourists getting into car crashes because they can’t handle the roads that are gravelly and many travel in winter to see the Lights but can’t hack the winter driving conditions. Landowners have also been closing off roads due to issues with tourists.

It’s such a special place though and I can see why people want to go there. I loved it!

We encountered a bit of a weird issue with what was obviously tourists in a rental car, driving up close behind us and flashing because we were driving at or below the 70km/h speed limit!!?

Given the road conditions, that kind of stuff is crazy.

_Brian

I was in a Dublin hotel recently and the lobby was full of “day trips” to places like the cliffs of moher, giants causeway and such.

Image how little of anything you would see on one of these trips and the local area gets essentially nothing from these bus loads who clog up the roads and then move on.

It’s a really scummy tactic to hold all the tourism money in the capital while using some of the most scenic and interesting areas of our country as “day trips”, implying that one just couldn’t spend any time in those rural areas.

[Deleted User]

_Brian wrote: »

I was in a Dublin hotel recently and the Kinney was full of “day trips” to places like the cliffs of moher, giants causeway and such.

Image how little of anything you would see on one of these trips and the local area gets essentially nothing from these bus loads who clog up the roads and then move on.

It’s a really scummy tactic to hold all the tourism money in the capital while using some of the most scenic and interesting areas of our country as “day trips”, implying that one just couldn’t spend any time in those rural areas.

:rolleyes:
"Hey guys, we know you're using Dublin as a base but if you want to go to the cliffs of Moher you'll have to spend a few nights over there."

Huexotzingo

I think the best solution is to bring in a tourist tax per day.(I know many cities already have this) The more popular the location the bigger the tax.

I think Dublin should bring in a charge per night as this will help deal with the strain on infrastructure that mass tourism inevitably brings.

TomSweeney

Huexotzingo wrote: »

I think the best solution is to bring in a tourist tax per day.(I know many cities already have this) The more popular the location the bigger the tax.

I think Dublin should bring a charge per night as this will help deal with the strain on infrastructure that mass tourism inevitably brings.

Nah the tax will only be stuffed into corrupt politicians pockets.

Wheety

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh yeah, Santorini is actually one of the destinations that has imposed restrictions!

In Lisbon, the real eye-opener for me was seeing a queue snake down the street in Belem in the noon heat for the famous pastelaria there. Insane. Those are the box-ticking tourists, the bucket listers. Meanwhile there was a pastelaria on my hotel’s street that sold pastel de natas that were as highly rated but no queues.

They are amazing Pastéis de Natas though.

Dr Brown

swift18 wrote: »

barcelona

Insane...

Aglomerado

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh yeah, Santorini is actually one of the destinations that has imposed restrictions!

In Lisbon, the real eye-opener for me was seeing a queue snake down the street in Belem in the noon heat for the famous pastelaria there. Insane. Those are the box-ticking tourists, the bucket listers. Meanwhile there was a pastelaria on my hotel’s street that sold pastel de natas that were as highly rated but no queues.

Yes I saw that too in November one year when I was there. Insanity.
I couldn't be bothered. After visiting the monastery and the tower I hopped back on the tram, while waiting at the stop across the street, I was horrified by the queues!

Rhys Essien

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

NZ gets pretty low tourism relative to is size. Both islands are bigger than Ireland and the country gets one third of our numbers.

Relative to their size European countries get huge number of tourists. France gets 70-80M. Italy about 60M.

Relative to population we get a lot - about 10M (all Ireland figures). One place in Dublin that feels over touristy is Howth midsummer when warm. Weekends particularly.

Nothing against Dublin but it probably gets 9m out of the 10m and it seems very few traveling around the West of the country.Cork,Kerry and Donegal are undoubtedly the most beautiful parts of the country and should be getting a lot more tourists.That plonker Paschal Donahue was responsible for the whole ‘Ireland’s Ancient East’ when there was no need for it because the ‘Wild Atlantic Way was created to balance up tourism here.

wakka12

I wonder why those people in barcelona hate tourists. Personally Id be proud so many people come to visit the city Im from

Neyite

Years ago we were visiting a Greek island where I picked up a local newspaper. It was in English, and written by visitors to the island. We didn't know it at the time but the island was a haunt of occasional rich yachting types and far more wannabe yachters. The paper was mainly stuff about where you could find foodstuffs from home, articles about charmingly eccentric locals who were so friendly despite their broken English, you could almost understand them perfectly, that sort of thing.

But one article by an American tourist with serious Notions who visited often bemoaned the fact that the island got visited by 'tourists' and that they could all breathe a sigh of relief when 'the daytrippers' finally left 'their' island so they could relax without all the tourists in their face or spoiling their holiday. There were about 50 visitors daily, if that. The irony was utterly lost.

It entertained us the whole evening as we'd missed our ferry back to our base, we were stuck there the night and therefore we were by that happy accident, real tourists, not the daytripping riff raff. :pac: Which we took the piss out of with each other. "I say, Dahling. Isn't it simply wonderful here when those pesky daytrippers have finally buggered orf"

I really wish I'd kept that paper. It was a howl.