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Calving 2018 - Advise and Help thread

Angus2018

I know there was another thread and I'm sure some of you dairy guys are near finished calving but I figured I would start a 2018 thread with the intention of helping out anyone who has a problem or question, or to simply let everyone know how you are getting on. I was looking through old threads and saw someone had a breach but didn't know how to identify it and ended up losing the calf so a thread like this will be great for helping out.

We dived into calving here last week and as luck would have it we had three breaches in 12 hours. Two calves fully backwards with legs tucked in so the vet had to come out twice in one night, they are happy running around in a paddock now. Its an easy fix for a vet but I'm not confident enough to do it myself when a lot can go wrong!

The other was backwards but the legs were out so no problems pulling him out with a jack. He's a little wonky on his front legs, no knuckling but bending in the knees. Suckling and trying to jump around the pen so will just keep an eye on him.

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Limestone Cowboy

greysides wrote: »

When you take a calf and it's yellow stained the calf has been stressed and passed the meconium in the uterus. Long calving, tough pulls etc. If you get it out alive you've had a close call.

Am I right in thinking if I had acted quicker I may have brought my calf alive so greysides? Hard to know what's right or wrong at times. Only for she had passed a blister I wouldn't have known she was calving, not sprung up properly, pin bones not dropped, no sign of sickness in her behaviour, not dialated. Was eating silage at the round feeder with the rest of them with the blister hanging out of her which I have never seen a cow to do before. Left her for a few hours and she was still doing the same like she didn't know she was calving, normally always head for isolation in the far end of the field away from the rest of the cows.

greysides

When you take a calf and it's yellow stained the calf has been stressed and passed the meconium in the uterus. Long calving, tough pulls etc. If you get it out alive you've had a close call.

grassroot1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

Quick question for Greysides
As above mirconium(excuse spelling)faeces in the fluids sets off alarm bells in human pregnancy is it a concern in animals aswell?
We used to see it a lot when we used longer gestation bulls and had occasional stilbirths in a very yellow fluid, I always wondered if it caused the stillbirth?

Limestone Cowboy

greysides wrote: »

Sounds a bit like Uterine Inertia, possibly some degree of low calcium involved. I wouldn't put that cow in calf againn.

Thanks greysides, she's for the chop now anyway.

greysides

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

Sounds a bit like Uterine Inertia, possibly some degree of low calcium involved. I wouldn't put that cow in calf againn.

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

SNAP had a cow with a blood discharge on her tail for a month or so her bearing was extended for a while but no prolapse. She was kicking her belly last night and started to calve today.the presentation was one leg and head so pushed it back and got the second leg. It wasnt hard to get the calf out after that. The mouth held a lot of fluid and it was clear the calf was dead 24 to 48 hours. The cleanings and fluids that were discoloured and came out with the calf. Any ideas?

If the cervix was exposed to air when she was lying down, prolapsing, then bugs in the air could have attacked the cervical mucus plug (a sealant) and liquified it (possibly the bloody discharge). This lets in bacteria to the calf and its a race against time then.

grassroot1

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hunger was the trick in the end! I didn't feed her before work this morn so she would be hungry tonight. Got her up and brought her over to cow. After a few mins I got her sucking. She was hungry because she was nearly lifting cow with tunks sucking

I often think they suck just we do not see them at it,that said you are never happy till you see them sucking

grassroot1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

SNAP had a cow with a blood discharge on her tail for a month or so her bearing was extended for a while but no prolapse. She was kicking her belly last night and started to calve today.the presentation was one leg and head so pushed it back and got the second leg. It wasnt hard to get the calf out after that. The mouth held a lot of fluid and it was clear the calf was dead 24 to 48 hours. The cleanings and fluids that were discoloured and came out with the calf. Any ideas?

Limestone Cowboy

First casualty here today. 12 year old cow never opened up or dropped in the bones but had the blister out for 3 hours. Brought her in and handled her and brought the calf without too much bother. Calf was alive with a faint enough heartbeat but couldn't get him breathing. Covered in yellow fluid aswell similar to what you might see in a calf that was dead for a few days. My 17 month casualty free streak is gone anyway.

RobinBanks

RedPeppers wrote: »

Dairying here but we would only tube calf for first couple of feeds. After that a bit of hunger doesn’t be long straightening them out, once there hungry enough they will suck

Hunger was the trick in the end! I didn't feed her before work this morn so she would be hungry tonight. Got her up and brought her over to cow. After a few mins I got her sucking. She was hungry because she was nearly lifting cow with tunks sucking

RedPeppers

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

Dairying here but we would only tube calf for first couple of feeds. After that a bit of hunger doesn’t be long straightening them out, once there hungry enough they will suck

Say my name

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Just a note on infa-red lamps. We have one here that is hung over the tank in the attic. Only used in severe cold weather. I've used it now and then over the years for cold weak calves.
During the week I was putting it back in the attic but plugged it in first to check it. My hands were numb enough at the time so held them in under it. Within seconds I could feel them warming and right through into the bones. Really made me appreciate now well it warms cold calves.

A side note on the infra red.
I heard tell of a few farmers putting them up over each milking unit on the cold nights. The beauty of the infra red is that it puts out infra red rays like the Sun so it heats up any object that the rays hit instead of wasting energy and heating up the air.

50HX

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

hunger and a shot of multivitamin

tanko

RobinBanks wrote: »

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

Sometimes i try to get the calf to suck a finger covered with sugar and slowly feed in milk into their mouth wirh a 60ml dosing syringe. When they get onto this try and get them started on the cow.
Takes plenty of paitence.
Is it a BB calf?

RobinBanks

Not sure if its been previously discussed but any tips on getting a calf to suck. Had a big calf Sat night and she inst sucking yet. Getting up alright but very lazy. Having to stomach tube her at the min.

patsy_mccabe

Just a note on infa-red lamps. We have one here that is hung over the tank in the attic. Only used in severe cold weather. I've used it now and then over the years for cold weak calves.
During the week I was putting it back in the attic but plugged it in first to check it. My hands were numb enough at the time so held them in under it. Within seconds I could feel them warming and right through into the bones. Really made me appreciate now well it warms cold calves.

squinn2912

Totally agree with you there's nothing like coming through a crisis with an animal to make you feel attached and proud. I'm talking about things going well but the 1st calving heifers start coming!

blonde10

I think no matter how well your calving is goin there's goin to be one that will test ya.one that will be on the brink and somehow survive..and he or she will be the one around the place for months to come..but even after all the nights fixing them under the red lamp,all the stomach tubing..and vet bills..when they survive and make it.....i think it makes it somewhat worthwhile.....

Angus2018

I give pre-calver licks to the pens on round feed barriers and mineral powder to ones on slats since they just knock their bucket out of the way or fill it with silage. Those animals would be taken off the slats well in advance of calving and put on buckets anyway.

Anyone close to calving gets a scoop of meal, udder puffs up well then, they've more energy for calving and the calf is more lively. Missed one cow last year, she was without a lick for a week and on hay, the calf was the laziest dopiest one I've had. Took about 8 hours to get him to suckle.

charolais0153

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea it's the powder we're using I don't think there's anything like it and they love it.
Hmm did you see the discussion I started on fresh calved cows? I opted not to go into them much. I got some of a dairy man beside me. I'd little need this year thank God. I like the thick yella stuff but vet told me colour means little. Not feeding oats just siliage but I'm happy with how they're doing I'd say oats would be good

Thickness matters though

squinn2912

Yea it's the powder we're using I don't think there's anything like it and they love it.
Hmm did you see the discussion I started on fresh calved cows? I opted not to go into them much. I got some of a dairy man beside me. I'd little need this year thank God. I like the thick yella stuff but vet told me colour means little. Not feeding oats just siliage but I'm happy with how they're doing I'd say oats would be good

blonde10

Just on the mineral thing..are ye goin with the pre calving bucket or would ye sprinkle powerd stuff over the silage..im not fully sold on the buckets.whats yet thoughts...also how is your beastings this year we have good stuff here it's thick like custard..i feed a bit of rolled oats.anybody else do same

squinn2912

Isn't it amazing what you can forgive for him being the right one! Our last bullock was a smasher. We've one noisy cow but she has a dream calf every year (also away in the head). I wouldn't go into them but they are lovely cattle in their own right. I'd find the lims more civil and easy to handle but the charolais were pets compared to either. I think we might go easy calving ch next time out.
On Patsy's point we're similar. Cows were late going in and we're getting bits of bales over a gate for a bit longer than ideal. They were a little thin going in but are calving great since. Number 19 calved this evening all on her own and the calf is up running about. (one great advantage of lim). The minerals have been a great job to keep cow and calf right.

Angus2018

squinn2912 wrote: »

Well turned off the bb here as well. Lovely cattle but so much can go wrong and any about this place were noisy brats

Have one AI BB bullock, lad is cracked! Even as a calf he'd take off to the other end of the field when moving them and made a mess of housing the bullocks before winter. Great condition though, would love 10 more of him.

patsy_mccabe

Half starved the cows this year pre calving as silage very scarce. Quality of silage was very good so that helped too I guess. Anyway, not a bother with calving and calves up straight away and sucking. Last calf here was sucking so bad I thought she'd break by fingers. Calves are big enough too as my bull is by ardlea Dan so not exactly easy calving.

blonde10

From my own experience with AI you don't always get what you think you do..or if so the figures are not very true when compared with what was in the catalogue...

Mooooo

tanko wrote: »

When you say consistent, do you mean consistently easy enough calved?

Yeah, doesn't go over time and have all calved themselves or with a small pull with the hand if I think they were a bit slow. I find he throws calves with small heads which I think helps ease into the calving. Now I only may have 5 or 6 a year and I don't be putting him in small cows either but have had no trouble with him yet anyway. Have had more issues with Hereford tbh. Of course the way fr breeding is going at the minute gestation lengths are shorter so that prob helps in the calves not going over time. Gestation length has a big influence in calving I think the biggest calves all tend to go the longest imo anyway, of course having the small calf and big growth after that isn't the easiest to achieve

tanko

Mooooo wrote: »

I find them fine, touch wood, use DBZ i think he is consistent enough. Out of a dairy cow once they don't go over time they seem fine, suckler different story as the muscle would be on before they calve

When you say consistent, do you mean consistently easy enough calved?

squinn2912

Who2 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Sometimes I get the feeling the Ai men look after number one first. Always mad for lims knowing we have 2 lim sweeper/stock bulls. Or else pushing what's in the flask... too much calving lately maybe I have paranoia!
That could happen you with any breed but bb make it more likely

a good ai man will match a cow to a bull and know what way it will go.

True of course and to be fair we have good men locally. Like anyone providing a service I don't like letting them feel to comfortable

Who2

squinn2912 wrote: »

Sometimes I get the feeling the Ai men look after number one first. Always mad for lims knowing we have 2 lim sweeper/stock bulls. Or else pushing what's in the flask... too much calving lately maybe I have paranoia!
That could happen you with any breed but bb make it more likely

a good ai man will match a cow to a bull and know what way it will go.