Bruthal wrote: » El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Cars are full of electronically controlled parts that they can be hacked right now. It’s not really something I spend much time worrying about. Does anyone? No, but we are not depending on it keeping us in lane at 120kph just yet.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Cars are full of electronically controlled parts that they can be hacked right now. It’s not really something I spend much time worrying about. Does anyone?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Sone cars do exactly that right now. But take a more mundane example. Do you think the brakes in your car are purely mechanical and couldn’t possibly be hacked?
billbond4 wrote: » Taking a guy who works on self driving cars, he says he huge amount of computing power needed to work out all the possible scenrios etc on a public road is years away probably 30 to 40. Motorway driving in self driving is relatively easy as theres less variables
eeguy wrote: » Planes actually have to do a lot of this to get down to the correct runway at the correct time in the correct slot.
A plane is a steel tube 10km above the earth with anywhere from 50 to 850 passengers.
The risks are so much greater than a car. Bird strikes, co-ordinating with ATF, engine failure, system failures, weather anomalies and a million other things can go wrong with a plane. One small issue can snowball to catastrophe.
Autopilot can deal with most of these, and in fairness, most pilots should leave autopilot alone to deal with it, but there's always going to be scenarios where the computer is out of it's depth, or human intervention is needed to physically repair something.
Nearly all car problems can be rendered safe by pulling over to the side of the road and calling the AA.
Your example isn't accurate either. We're talking about cars and airplanes, carrying people along predefined paths, not a quadcopter than can take off anywhere, fly anywhere and land anywhere, with no regard for the area around it.
eeguy wrote: » Sure even if the brakes are mechanical they can still be physically hacked. snip snip:cool:
Bruthal wrote: » What would that do to upgrade the car?
CiniO wrote: » Artificial intelligence wasn't at much higher state than today in the 80's so progress is very slow.
Ger Roe wrote: » One more question on the safety aspects.. I read all the time how the self drive cars can anticipate problems ahead and stop in emergency situations but will they also swerve or accelerate to avoid collisions like humans sometimes have to do?
Kat1170 wrote: » Ah, the old question. What if the evasive action is going to kill a pedestrian(s) or no evasive action is going to kill the cars occupant(s).
Bruthal wrote: » Planes dont have to avoid pedestrians, keep in lane, emergency brake, park, stop at red lights, squeeze past other traffic on narrow back roads with one having do squeeze into the edge of the ditch........ Consumer drones these days can be sent on fully automated flights from takeoff to landing back at the exact same spot, after flying kms away.
CelticRambler wrote: » My drone does all of the above - great fun playing chasing with it in the back garden, and when it's had enough, it tells me to feck off and finds itself somewhere to land.
Stheno wrote: » Google ibm and watson to see how wrong your statement is A fleet of self driving cars were used as taxis at the consumer electronics show this year, they still have to have a driver due to regulation but there is plenty of articles on how they performed interacting with normal traffic
CiniO wrote: » Yes, sure... But remember that Ancient Greeks also had some for of airplanes 6000 years ago, which probably could even fly for a bit in rightly controlled environment. Wright brothers though were born only in 19 century, and it wasn't really until after WW2 before general public were allowed to travel by air on a large scale.
eeguy wrote: » Ehh what? Ancient greeks had airplanes? Yeah...no they didn't.
In 1901 Wilbur Wright said it would take 50 years before humans would fly. It actually took less than 50 years from the Wright Bros first powered flight in 1903 to Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier in 1947. Technological progress happens in the blink of an eye if there's money and need.
CiniO wrote: » They didn't have airplanes per se, but they thought they were close to flying. That's my whole point.
CiniO wrote: » Technological progress is different thing. Fully self driving car requires artificial intelligence, which we don't currently have, and are very unlikely to have anytime soon.
eeguy wrote: » Did they? Where did you read that? True, but nobody is jumping straight to a fully capable self driving car. Most companies are looking at a Level 4, which is achievable with a neural network, and this is what everyone is developing and refining right now. A car that can drive itself 98% of the time and only hands over when something really unexpected happens. It may be it hands over control to a call centre somewhere.
eeguy wrote: » Did they? Where did you read that?WikipediaAntecedents Many stories from antiquity involve flight, such as the Greek legend of Icarus and Daedalus, and the Vimana in ancient Indian epics. Around 400 BC in Greece, Archytas was reputed to have designed and built the first artificial, self-propelled flying device, a bird-shaped model propelled by a jet of what was probably steam, said to have flown some 200 m (660 ft).[8][9] This machine may have been suspended for its flight.[10][11] True, but nobody is jumping straight to a fully capable self driving car. Most companies are looking at a Level 4, which is achievable with a neural network, and this is what everyone is developing and refining right now. A car that can drive itself 98% of the time and only hands over when something really unexpected happens. It may be it hands over control to a call centre somewhere. Yes, but in reality that's not a self driving car anymore if it can drive only in certain circumstances (even if it was 98% which I doubt).
True, but nobody is jumping straight to a fully capable self driving car. Most companies are looking at a Level 4, which is achievable with a neural network, and this is what everyone is developing and refining right now. A car that can drive itself 98% of the time and only hands over when something really unexpected happens. It may be it hands over control to a call centre somewhere.
CiniO wrote: » Antecedents Many stories from antiquity involve flight, such as the Greek legend of Icarus and Daedalus, and the Vimana in ancient Indian epics. Around 400 BC in Greece, Archytas was reputed to have designed and built the first artificial, self-propelled flying device, a bird-shaped model propelled by a jet of what was probably steam, said to have flown some 200 m (660 ft).[8][9] This machine may have been suspended for its flight.[10][11]
CiniO wrote: » Yes, but in reality that's not a self driving car anymore if it can drive only in certain circumstances (even if it was 98% which I doubt).
eeguy wrote: » El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Sone cars do exactly that right now. But take a more mundane example. Do you think the brakes in your car are purely mechanical and couldn’t possibly be hacked? Sure even if the brakes are mechanical they can still be physically hacked. snip snip:cool:
Bruthal wrote: » El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Sone cars do exactly that right now. But take a more mundane example. Do you think the brakes in your car are purely mechanical and couldn’t possibly be hacked? Well id say it would be tricky to upload new firmware to them But hacked/modded was in the context of altering something in the setup to avoid a restriction or such, or to improve something in the firmware. Im not sure what firmware mod people want to apply to their brakes at present.
Lantus wrote: » There are 1.2million deaths worldwide each year due to road accidents. It's a simply staggering waste of human life that autonomous cars have the potential to massively reduce. Anyone who opposes cutting that disgusting statistic is unsane.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I think you're going out of your way to avoid the point. If someone wanted to hack your car right now to cause harm, they could. I doubt you spend much time worrying about it though. The paranoia around hacking self drive cars is unnecessary unless you already worry about hacking current cars.
Bruthal wrote: » Just about every electronic, or computer controlled device gets hacked, or modded etc.
mloc123 wrote: » Somewhat related... I met a model X while out driving on Saturday. the road had just two tyre tracks dug down and about 1ft either side. I pulled in a bit and expected him to do the same... nope. Just sat in the middle of the road After a stand off he finally moved over enough to pass. Perhaps he was using self drive and it didn't know how to react.... perhaps he was just a dick.
Del2005 wrote: » The world is already over populated. More people die from starvation and lack of water. If we want to have a big impact on humans we should be tackling food shortages and lack of clean water, which will improve the life of billions, not remote control cars.
eeguy wrote: » That cars worth 100k. I wouldn't be risking it either
So there's too many people so we should let them die? Bit harsh.
Bruthal wrote: » I think you missed the point. Bruthal wrote: » Just about every electronic, or computer controlled device gets hacked, or modded etc. Hacked/modded is not only about other unknowns altering a software system, or cutting brake lines with a snips. Obviously some posters believe we will be driving around in 2022 in fully automated cars. And that`s fair enough. Maybe we will.
Del2005 wrote: More people die from starvation and lack of water. If we want to have a big impact on humans we should be tackling food shortages and lack of clean water, which will improve the life of billions, not remote control cars.
