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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Am thinking of getting the Nest installed. Have recently had a new boiler fitted, 3 zones, upstairs, downstairs, and hot water.

Have a couple of questions, can the h/w stay linked to the heating programmer and run on a timed schedule, with the Nests controlling the two heating zones independently?

Can a Nest thermostat be installed to replace one of my existing stats and be run off the existing programmer? Was thinking of doing a trial run with this setup.

If I decide to go the whole hog and install a Nest thermostat to control the h/w, is that another Nest thermostat attached to the cylinder in the hot press? Or is it a different type thermostat?

Thanks!

Lads would anyone be able to help me with these?

deezell

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Free offer here
@HUBController: We're going to be in The Square #Tallaght all day tomorrow signing up people for a free Hub Controller Smart Thermostat! #SmartThermostat #Dublin #smarthome #energysaving #energyefficient

Make sure to drop by, say hello & sign up! https://www.thehubcontroller.com/trial https://twitter.com/HUBController/status/971805753924378624/photo/1

Think I saw a previous tweet about Alexa functionality

This ties in with the energy companies apparently giving away free systems. It might be levered through the new controller only grants scheme worth €700. It could also be a trial, it doesn't say you get to keep the stat, so you might get fond of it and agree to pay to keep it. I'd be curious to know more. I've never heard of government funded trials for heating products, but anything is possible.
Amazon have a page announcing hubcontroller skills alright.

Mr.Crinklewood

deezell wrote: »

I can't find any reference to it for free in a Google search. It's €249 to buy and self install which puts it right up there price wise, yet there's no mention of HW control, no Opentherm for advanced boilers, no Alexa, Google home , Apple homekit or IFTTT integration. It's a simple device at an advanced price.
It doesn't need a bridge to connect to the router, meaning it uses standard Wi-Fi. Battery powered stats normally use a very lo power radio link to their router hub/ bridge in order to get reasonable life. Nest uses normal WiFi and requires either a small phone style charger or power down the wires from it's heatlink box. This stat uses a battery, but it's rechargeable. How does it stay charged? My guess is it siphons power from the open circuit voltage of the heating relay. When the boiler is off, in a 2 wire system there will be 220v ( or possibly 24v dc) across the contacts. This can be used to power a charging circuit. When the contacts are closed it goes to battery power. As closed contacts means the boiler is firing, this period will only be in short bursts, battery charging resuming when the contacts open. Very clever. I had contemplated bodging something like this for my Tado, if battery life became an issue.

Free offer here
@HUBController: We're going to be in The Square #Tallaght all day tomorrow signing up people for a free Hub Controller Smart Thermostat! #SmartThermostat #Dublin #smarthome #energysaving #energyefficient

Make sure to drop by, say hello & sign up! https://www.thehubcontroller.com/trial https://twitter.com/HUBController/status/971805753924378624/photo/1

Think I saw a previous tweet about Alexa functionality

deezell

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Anyone used the "Hub Controller" heating system?

https://www.thehubcontroller.com/

They seemed to have some free offer in The Square in Tallaght yesterday, I was with there for work so didn't have time to check things out.

Just wondering if it was any good and what the catch was with the free offer?

I can't find any reference to it for free in a Google search. It's €249 to buy and self install which puts it right up there price wise, yet there's no mention of HW control, no Opentherm for advanced boilers, no Alexa, Google home , Apple homekit or IFTTT integration. It's a simple device at an advanced price.
It doesn't need a bridge to connect to the router, meaning it uses standard Wi-Fi. Battery powered stats normally use a very lo power radio link to their router hub/ bridge in order to get reasonable life. Nest uses normal WiFi and requires either a small phone style charger or power down the wires from it's heatlink box. This stat uses a battery, but it's rechargeable. How does it stay charged? My guess is it siphons power from the open circuit voltage of the heating relay. When the boiler is off, in a 2 wire system there will be 220v ( or possibly 24v dc) across the contacts. This can be used to power a charging circuit. When the contacts are closed it goes to battery power. As closed contacts means the boiler is firing, this period will only be in short bursts, battery charging resuming when the contacts open. Very clever. I had contemplated bodging something like this for my Tado, if battery life became an issue.

micks_address

RoryW wrote: »

Plumber recommending Heat Miser over Nest Hive or Honeywell

Comments welcomed

Thanks

I've found plumbers tend to pick one make stick with that.. I had one plumber recommend heatmiser, another emberhome.. Having nest installed with new boiler Thursday.. The nest app will be hard to beat... Also nest has a learning algorithm which others don't.. Can't say if it makes it better it worse..

RoryW

Plumber recommending Heat Miser over Nest Hive or Honeywell

Comments welcomed

Thanks

Mr.Crinklewood

Anyone used the "Hub Controller" heating system?

https://www.thehubcontroller.com/

They seemed to have some free offer in The Square in Tallaght yesterday, I was with there for work so didn't have time to check things out.

Just wondering if it was any good and what the catch was with the free offer?

Fr_Dougal

Am thinking of getting the Nest installed. Have recently had a new boiler fitted, 3 zones, upstairs, downstairs, and hot water.

Have a couple of questions, can the h/w stay linked to the heating programmer and run on a timed schedule, with the Nests controlling the two heating zones independently?

Can a Nest thermostat be installed to replace one of my existing stats and be run off the existing programmer? Was thinking of doing a trial run with this setup.

If I decide to go the whole hog and install a Nest thermostat to control the h/w, is that another Nest thermostat attached to the cylinder in the hot press? Or is it a different type thermostat?

Thanks!

deezell

AppleKidd wrote: »

Okay, I don't have any independent hot water heating. its just when the heating goes on the water starts to heat up in the tank. So I should be good with the Nest.

You will, and the HW relay is there if you mod your plumbing in the future to heat HW only

AppleKidd

deezell wrote: »

Yes, if you don't have independent hot water heating the Nest is not going to add this. If your basic timer has a HW/ CH switch, then it should be possible to wire up accordingly. In many installations the difference in the two is that the HW setting disconnects the circulation pump, with the HW heated by gravity from the boiler. This is a very basic method, but some installs don't even have this, with HW and CH always on together. The Nest will give you timed temperature control of the CH, it also has a relay for HW timing, but you would need zone valves installed to seperate the two. If you had HW heating by gravity ( convection), then HW timing relay could be used to cut the circulation pump to mimic HW only time interval, but this would be a bodge at best. PS, see previous post for possible sale of brand new unused Nest!

Okay, I don't have any independent hot water heating. its just when the heating goes on the water starts to heat up in the tank. So I should be good with the Nest.

deezell

AppleKidd wrote: »

Hi,

I'm thinking of upgrading to a nest thermostat. At current, I've a basic on/off / timer switch. When I turn my heating the water tanks heat up. Well, the nest thermostat do the same thing when it's on?

Thanks in advance

Yes, if you don't have independent hot water heating the Nest is not going to add this. If your basic timer has a HW/ CH switch, then it should be possible to wire up accordingly. In many installations the difference in the two is that the HW setting disconnects the circulation pump, with the HW heated by gravity from the boiler. This is a very basic method, but some installs don't even have this, with HW and CH always on together. The Nest will give you timed temperature control of the CH, it also has a relay for HW timing, but you would need zone valves installed to seperate the two. If you had HW heating by gravity ( convection), then HW timing relay could be used to cut the circulation pump to mimic HW only time interval, but this would be a bodge at best. PS, see previous post for possible sale of brand new unused Nest!

AppleKidd

Hi,

I'm thinking of upgrading to a nest thermostat. At current, I've a basic on/off / timer switch. When I turn my heating the water tanks heat up. Well, the nest thermostat do the same thing when it's on?

Thanks in advance

Aph2016

Thinking of selling my 3rd gen nest, hasn't been fitted yet but think I've changed my mind on the whole home heating automation.

deezell

Dermobrickie wrote: »

I no this was probably covered 100 times but could somebody tell me the best set for my house,
It's a new build wit oil and stove with back boiler.
Two zones rads and hot water, but would like the option of third zone for attic in future.
What stat do I put on stove?
Which thermostat would suit me best nest/hive neatamo?

You need to install a mixing manifold to combine back boiler and oil, which is also used to pump distribute to the zones. Very effective and no zone valves, just reliable pumps. You'll need a small relay box to combine zone stats' call for heat lives to the boiler live in call for heat, and also to trigger at least one zone when the back boiler stat kicks in. These boxes make wiring a doddle.
Typical layout, the more zones, the more ports you specify on the manifold. This design is from NRGAwareness.com
Pick the smart stat of your preference. Tado, Nest, NetaTmo will all integrate well with this. The HW cylinder stat and the stove stat will be standard mechanical stats.

Dermobrickie

I no this was probably covered 100 times but could somebody tell me the best set for my house,
It's a new build wit oil and stove with back boiler.
Two zones rads and hot water, but would like the option of third zone for attic in future.
What stat do I put on stove?
Which thermostat would suit me best nest/hive neatamo?

deezell

matrim wrote: »

The first one was in early 2016, the new one around November 2017. The second guy basically said that he didn't have proof of our insulation so would have to count it as none and that the original didn't count the fact our neighbour is an office instead of a house.

We called the original guy and asked if he had proof of the insulation from his calculation and he said "I stand by my numbers and will give you a C2 again if you want". Basically making me think the whole thing is a joke.

Earns them a few quid. Like some of the results on your NCT, can improve/disimprove from test to test. The only figure that should count is the measured heat emissions for the outside of the house in relation to the temperatures inside. This requires quite a bit of measurment, I doubt if you'll get that for a few hundred euros, but I would expect at least a measure of inside wall temperature less outside wall temp, mutiplied by the surface areas. Same for windows and roof, this will give the heat loss per degree difference per surface area or volume, whatever they use. You could do it your self with a spot thermometer, and a pencil and paper.

matrim

fletch wrote: »

When was your initial assessment done? The assessment I got for mine (on a new build) wasn't even carried out on a house in my housing estate!

The first one was in early 2016, the new one around November 2017. The second guy basically said that he didn't have proof of our insulation so would have to count it as none and that the original didn't count the fact our neighbour is an office instead of a house.

We called the original guy and asked if he had proof of the insulation from his calculation and he said "I stand by my numbers and will give you a C2 again if you want". Basically making me think the whole thing is a joke.

fletch

matrim wrote: »

Our house went from a C2 when we bought it to a D2 after getting a new more efficient heating system put it a year later

When was your initial assessment done? The assessment I got for mine (on a new build) wasn't even carried out on a house in my housing estate!

matrim

budhabob wrote: »

The BER assessment isn't a very accurate or scientific approach, but its an indicator.

Our house went from a C2 when we bought it to a D2 after getting a new more efficient heating system put it a year later

budhabob

micks_address wrote: »

You need a ber rating is required to get the grant.. I've never had one done so curious to see what the house is..

The BER assessment isn't a very accurate or scientific approach, but its an indicator.

micks_address

deezell wrote: »

No, ber is just a measure of energy efficiency, heat loss or insulation. Seems odd to require one for heating controls, which are about making savings by heating zones rather than the entire house at any given time. I wonder is a minimum ber required for the grant? An inefficient house will still be inefficient after smart controls, except you can control the wasted heat better.

You need a ber rating is required to get the grant.. I've never had one done so curious to see what the house is..

deezell

judeboy101 wrote: »

Will a smart heating systems make any diff to a ber on its own?

No, ber is just a measure of energy efficiency, heat loss or insulation. Seems odd to require one for heating controls, which are about making savings by heating zones rather than the entire house at any given time. I wonder is a minimum ber required for the grant? An inefficient house will still be inefficient after smart controls, except you can control the wasted heat better.

judeboy101

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

Yes we probably will be getting the grant anyway as are not that far off the requirements for it, just need a few more trvs ons rads and to update the earth to the cylinder. His quote will include a ber assessment to get the grant. Will know more tomorrow. He is a nest pro installer so id be happy for the job to be complete in one, if there any issues with any of the system he can support the nest boiler/plumbing.
Will depend largely on the quote as if its significantly more than the electric Ireland costs I may still go with them.

Thanks,
Mick

I'm in a similar situation to yourself albeit I've got the nest installed. The ber assessment needs to be done independently of the person who completed your upgrade, just check that this is the case with your quote.

Will a smart heating systems make any diff to a ber on its own?

micks_address

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to yourself albeit I've got the nest installed. The ber assessment needs to be done independently of the person who completed your upgrade, just check that this is the case with your quote.

Yes he has an independent guy..

illdoit2morrow

micks_address wrote: »

Yes we probably will be getting the grant anyway as are not that far off the requirements for it, just need a few more trvs ons rads and to update the earth to the cylinder. His quote will include a ber assessment to get the grant. Will know more tomorrow. He is a nest pro installer so id be happy for the job to be complete in one, if there any issues with any of the system he can support the nest boiler/plumbing.
Will depend largely on the quote as if its significantly more than the electric Ireland costs I may still go with them.

Thanks,
Mick

I'm in a similar situation to yourself albeit I've got the nest installed. The ber assessment needs to be done independently of the person who completed your upgrade, just check that this is the case with your quote.

micks_address

deezell wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

If they refuse the install I suppose you'll get a refund automatically. If they install, then they're hardly going to try taking it back if they discover you're not a customer. Your own guy will need to be grant installer listed if you were thinking of going after the €600, and the install has to cover two zones to qualify, and have ber certs. €240 for the stat plus install labour of, say, €100? Double that if he's putting it on grant forms. Then the cost of ber and the wait for the grant. Wait and see if you get it in for the €130 first.

Yes we probably will be getting the grant anyway as are not that far off the requirements for it, just need a few more trvs ons rads and to update the earth to the cylinder. His quote will include a ber assessment to get the grant. Will know more tomorrow. He is a nest pro installer so id be happy for the job to be complete in one, if there any issues with any of the system he can support the nest boiler/plumbing.
Will depend largely on the quote as if its significantly more than the electric Ireland costs I may still go with them.

Thanks,
Mick

deezell

micks_address wrote: »

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

If they refuse the install I suppose you'll get a refund automatically. If they install, then they're hardly going to try taking it back if they discover you're not a customer. Your own guy will need to be grant installer listed if you were thinking of going after the €600, and the install has to cover two zones to qualify, and have ber certs. €240 for the stat plus install labour of, say, €100? Double that if he's putting it on grant forms. Then the cost of ber and the wait for the grant. Wait and see if you get it in for the €130 first.

micks_address

what_traffic wrote: »

Guess it depends on the installer?
I got NEST installed via the Electric Ireland offer just yesterday, I am an Electric Ireland customer. The installer who came to install is an Independent Contractor and he did confirm with me if I was an Electric Ireland customer when filling out the CRM details on his phone app.

Previous system I had was just a timer on an old boiler with TRV radiators in each room.(Thermostat was installed but never worked, electrician confirmed no voltage on the wiring on it)
Only downside , cannot use the Hot water function with NEST with Boiler plumbing setup I have.

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

what_traffic

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

I got nest installed via the EI offer, i was with Energia at the time. The guy who came to install didn't ask any questions about who i was with.

Guess it depends on the installer?
I got NEST installed via the Electric Ireland offer just yesterday, I am an Electric Ireland customer. The installer who came to install is an Independent Contractor and he did confirm with me if I was an Electric Ireland customer when filling out the CRM details on his phone app.

Previous system I had was just a timer on an old boiler with TRV radiators in each room.(Thermostat was installed but never worked, electrician confirmed no voltage on the wiring on it)
Only downside , cannot use the Hot water function with NEST with Boiler plumbing setup I have.

micks_address

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed? I am an ex customer but have an order in.. im just wondering how clued in the installers are? I am likely to have a new boiler by then which supports opentherm.. with separate hot water and radiator circuits - they should be able to configure to control both easy enough?
I've had no contact from electric Ireland apart from the email confirming 130 euro payment and confirming date of install. I'll certainly keep everyone informed with what happens.. On the day I wonder will the technician ask for anything in terms of proof of electric Ireland customer? I would be pretty miffed if they turn up on the day and say oh sorry you are not a customer goodbye...
I don't mind if they contact be and say sorry but we are cancelling the install.. id still argue with them that they shouldn't allow me put through the order and I have an email stating payment etc and hopefully they will honor it..

I got nest installed via the EI offer, i was with Energia at the time. The guy who came to install didn't ask any questions about who i was with.

Cool seems a bit of a loop hole there so... hope they don't close it before March 9th!