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Child Item

Parenting classes

Ajsoprano

We do anti natal classes and breast feeding classes and yet we don’t do classes showing scum how not to raise scum.
Looking at the situation in Tallaght/citywest tonight I’m wondering why we allowed a generation of society drains raise a nest of society drains. Why did we dump a pile of refugees in there to be shown how to be a labour drain.

It’s another case of crap. We are soon going to have ghettos like America has where businesses won’t set up in areas because it’s too dangerous. These locals then use the fact these businesses won’t set up there to claim the business has it in for them. We go down a road of kids being told selling drugs is the only way to get by.
Are we sleep walking into the American dream.

Tl/dr if we can pay for breast feeding classes and breathing classes why arnt we paying for raising a child right classes.

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Samuel T. Cogley

What possible incentive would they have to go?

twowheelsonly

I thought that was a parenting class

Ajsoprano

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

What possible incentive would they have to go?

If you heave a criminal conviction they should be mandatory. You could have them running in prisons.

DoozerT6

I don't think anybody would be too thrilled with "you're a crap parent and we're going to tell you how NOT to raise a scumbag like yourself who'll end up in prison anyway, and these classes are mandatory, and YOU WILL COMPLY" classes tbh.

r93kaey5p2izun

Parenting courses are available and promoted in these areas. The Incredible Years programme and Parenting Plus. And parental involvement in Early Start programmes. Unfortunately it's not mandatory and those who need it most are least likely to engage. A lot of these parents aren't fit to raise a child but the alternative in this country often isn't any better given the chronic lack of funding and resources for social work and child protection services.

Ajsoprano

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I don't think anybody would be too thrilled with "you're a crap parent and we're going to tell you how NOT to raise a scumbag like yourself who'll end up in prison anyway, and these classes are mandatory, and YOU WILL COMPLY" classes tbh.

If we can sell a new phone to somebody every six months I’m sure there are marketing men out there that can sell these classes.
Free John player blue with every attendance or maybe an ad during fair city.

buried

Just create a cheap high percentage alcoholic based drink laced with high percentage sterilisation drugs and sell it for 2 cents a can. Give them what they want while also providing them with what they need. Problem f**king solved

[Deleted User]

Ajsoprano wrote: »

We do anti natal classes and breast feeding classes and yet we don’t do classes showing scum how not to raise scum.
Looking at the situation in Tallaght/citywest tonight I’m wondering why we allowed a generation of society drains raise a nest of society drains. Why did we dump a pile of refugees in there to be shown how to be a labour drain.

It’s another case of crap. We are soon going to have ghettos like America has where businesses won’t set up in areas because it’s too dangerous. These locals then use the fact these businesses won’t set up there to claim the business has it in for them. We go down a road of kids being told selling drugs is the only way to get by.
Are we sleep walking into the American dream.

Tl/dr if we can pay for breast feeding classes and breathing classes why arnt we paying for raising a child right classes.

I agree 100 percent and would actually make it compulsory if you have a kid and receive a social welfare benefit.

That is NOT to say all sw recipients need classes, but I myself chose to go to such a class (Im not a sw recipient) but I wanted to make sure I did a good job. So hopefully a positive spin could be put on it.

Terribly unpopular and so NON PC to say this, but kids really need a father figure, and ideally a stable 2 parent family in order to thrive. Would bet my bottom dollar a lot of these toerags tearing up lidl tonight come from one parent families where frankly the Mother doesnt give a toss.

And yes, PC brigade, I know a lot of single Mothers do a great job....but sadly an awful lot of them dont. And its society who pays the price for the behaviour of their feral scum.

Guy:Incognito

If you need a class to tell you to raise your child to not loot and demolish supermarkets then you need a lot more than a class. Some sort of sterilisation procedure would be a start.

pleas advice

buried wrote: »

Just create a cheap high percentage alcoholic based drink laced with high percentage sterilisation drugs and sell it for 2 cents a can. Give them what they want while also providing them with what they need. Problem f**king solved

you could pay them either...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prevention

One eyed Jack

Ajsoprano wrote: »

We do anti natal classes and breast feeding classes and yet we don’t do classes showing scum how not to raise scum.
Looking at the situation in Tallaght/citywest tonight I’m wondering why we allowed a generation of society drains raise a nest of society drains. Why did we dump a pile of refugees in there to be shown how to be a labour drain.

It’s another case of crap. We are soon going to have ghettos like America has where businesses won’t set up in areas because it’s too dangerous. These locals then use the fact these businesses won’t set up there to claim the business has it in for them. We go down a road of kids being told selling drugs is the only way to get by.
Are we sleep walking into the American dream.

Tl/dr if we can pay for breast feeding classes and breathing classes why arnt we paying for raising a child right classes.

Those classes are optional, as are parenting classes, which do exist. Their children did a scummy thing, but that doesn't mean their parents were scum. I've known many parents who worked hard and do their best for their children, and their children still behave like feral fcukwits among their peers.

There's no classes you can teach that will prevent people with no class from behaving like they have no class, just like there's no classes for people who instantly want to blame parents for their children's feral behaviour. Just like a mob mentality is observed in feral fcukwits, so too can the mob mentality be observed in the kind of people who want to instantly blame their parents.

erica74

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I've known many parents who worked hard and do their best for their children, and their children still behave like feral fcukwits among their peers.

I don't believe that excuse which is so often throw out during discussions like this. Teenagers don't just wake up one Friday night and decide on a whim that they're going to rob and wreck the local Lidl, pull the safe out of it and drag it up the road (not to mention all of the other places that were allegedly robbed last night albeit maybe not all by the same people), having previously behaved like good little girls and boys. There is a progression over time and that is where shitty parents feed their problems into their shitty children.
It wouldn't surprise me if I learned that the individuals involved have been getting into trouble since they were children and have progressed to this sort of behaviour because their parents did not discipline them, parent them nor give a shite about the impact their children were having on society.
Those parents seem to think that their children are society's problem and the gardai can deal with them and the taxpayer can foot the bill for all of this.

Do you think that Lidl is the first shop they've robbed from? Do you think that digger is the first vehicle they've stolen? Do you think that Lidl is the first piece of property that didn't belong to them that they've damaged?

One eyed Jack

erica74 wrote: »

I don't believe that excuse which is so often throw out during discussions like this. Teenagers don't just wake up one Friday night and decide on a whim that they're going to rob and wreck the local Lidl, pull the safe out of it and drag it up the road (not to mention all of the other places that were allegedly robbed last night albeit maybe not all by the same people), having previously behaved like good little girls and boys. There is a progression over time and that is where shitty parents feed their problems into their shitty children.
It wouldn't surprise me if I learned that the individuals involved have been getting into trouble since they were children and have progressed to this sort of behaviour because their parents did not discipline them, parent them nor give a shite about the impact their children were having on society.
Those parents seem to think that their children are society's problem and the gardai can deal with them and the taxpayer can foot the bill for all of this.

Do you think that Lidl is the first shop they've robbed from? Do you think that digger is the first vehicle they've stolen? Do you think that Lidl is the first piece of property that didn't belong to them that they've damaged?

I wasn't trying to excuse anything. What I'm saying is that it isn't the parents we should be looking at here as these teenagers were old enough to be responsible for their own behaviour, and no, I don't think it's the first time they behaved like feral fcukwits, but I also don't believe it's so easy to blame their parents when whatever little we know about the teenagers involved, we know nothing about their parents.

There's just as many middle and upper class fcukwits who behave as though they have no class and no sense of social responsibility too, so I really don't see it as a question of whether or not it was a failure on the part of their parents which leads to feral fcukwits behaving like feral fcukwits in a group. Some people are just assholes, in the same way as some people turn out to be decent people, in spite of their parents best efforts to raise them to become contrary to their nature.

Hector Bellend

show parents how to correctly administer the requisite cracks on the arse.

suicide_circus

DEY NEED MORE FACILITIES

erica74

One eyed Jack wrote: »

we know nothing about their parents.

We do though. These teenagers were raised by parents who did nothing to curb their bad behaviour before it got to this level. We know that much about their parents. Children learn from their parents, these children didn't learn to respect other people's property, other people's livelihoods, other people.

One eyed Jack

erica74 wrote: »

We do though. These teenagers were raised by parents who did nothing to curb their bad behaviour before it got to this level. We know that much about their parents. Children learn from their parents, these children didn't learn to respect other people's property, other people's livelihoods, other people.

That's only partially true, it's only true up to the point where children are raised in a bubble and have no exposure to other people who influence their attitudes and behaviours, and that's why in the same way as decent people can often come from bad parents, so too can bad people come from good parents. Outcomes are much more dependent upon the individual and the people in their lives at any given point in their lives, than just their parents influence in early childhood.

That's why the idea of parenting classes for people who are already feral themselves are:

1. Too late by the time they have children

2. Don't actually teach children anything

3. Ignore the fact that people aren't born as "blank slates".

splinter65

This is just another taboo subject.
“The mammys of Ireland are just wonderful”.
If you don’t like these type of teenagers then you need to get out of the country before the now very small children of these teenagers and young people grow up.
Teachers at primary level are overwhelmed with small children being brought to school by young parents, and the children cannot speak properly, are not toilet trained, have never held a crayon or pencil, have never opened a book, are violent to other children, have no control over themselves , because the young parents have absolutely no skills or tools whatsoever.
The kids are often being used as pawns in a custody/maintenance/access war which is mostly to do with one parent seeking vengeance over being dumped/cheated on.
The state aid coming into the house is not managed properly and the kids move from house to house and back home to her mothers and back out again . New stepdads are moved in after a couple of weeks because he’s “the one” and moved back out again just as quick.
Dad takes them for the weekend but leaves them mostly with his parents while he goes out, and his mother fills the child’s head with nonsense .
They lurch between Christmas Easter birthdays communions and confirmations all costing a fortune and meaning absolutely nothing.
The rest of the time is spent either sitting in front of the tv or running wild out in the estate.
Poor little kids.

erica74

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That's only partially true, it's only true up to the point where children are raised in a bubble and have no exposure to other people who influence their attitudes and behaviours, and that's why in the same way as decent people can often come from bad parents, so too can bad people come from good parents. Outcomes are much more dependent upon the individual and the people in their lives at any given point in their lives, than just their parents influence in early childhood.

That's why the idea of parenting classes for people who are already feral themselves are:

1. Too late by the time they have children

2. Don't actually teach children anything

3. Ignore the fact that people aren't born as "blank slates".

I didn't say children only learn from their parents, although, from your first paragraph, that seems to be what you think I meant.

Owryan

I've facilitated parenting courses. You can always tell who wants to be there from those who have to/were made to attend.

Trying to teach parenting skills to people who don't want to be a parent is a waste of time.

One eyed Jack

erica74 wrote: »

I didn't say children only learn from their parents, although that seems to be what you think I meant from your first paragraph.

I'm not sure what else I was supposed to think when you said that you do know something about the parents, that they didn't discipline their children, that children learn from their parents, implying the old adage that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree", but the fact remains that we don't know anything about the parents of these teenagers, or these teenagers background, or how they were or weren't raised by their parents.

You appeared to be doing exactly what I said, jumping to conclusions about the parents, who realistically speaking we really do know nothing about, and that defence is used all the time in Court to argue for more lenient sentences for these feral fcukwits instead of holding them responsible for their own actions. It's easier blame the parents than acknowledge that people have minds of their own.

iomusicdublin

It cost's €250,000 a year to house a juvenile in detention.

It cost's €100,000 a year for an adult prisoner.

Surely this money could be used for early intervention, you could help 250 families @ €1,000 per family to educate ignorant parents. Long term the savings are huge.

50% of all prisoners in Ireland left school before 16.

When wealthy and poor area's are compared the % of wealthy with 3rd level qualifications is the same as % of criminal convictions in poor areas.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ajsoprano wrote: »

If you heave a criminal conviction they should be mandatory. You could have them running in prisons.

We've a tiny number of woman in prison. In many cases the father is not involved in the child's life so there is very little point in giving him parenting classes.

splinter65

iomusicdublin wrote: »

It cost's €250,000 a year to house a juvenile in detention.

It cost's €100,000 a year for an adult prisoner.

Surely this money could be used for early intervention, you could help 250 families @ €1,000 per family to educate ignorant parents. Long term the savings are huge.

50% of all prisoners in Ireland left school before 16.

When wealthy and poor area's are compared the % of wealthy with 3rd level qualifications is the same as % of criminal convictions in poor areas.

They don’t want to be educated because they don’t think they need to be educated and it’s nigh on impossible to teach someone who doesn’t want to learn.
They are also being encouraged by well meaning do gooders who encourage them to think that it is everyone else’s (the school, the Gardai, the Government, society’s) fault when the kids start getting into trouble.
Nothing can be done now about it so it’s pointless talking about it.

[Deleted User]

Can we run these classes in Foxrock too, so that parents there will make sure they don't bring up their sons to tie up and murder vulnerable women?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/graham-dwyer-case

yesto24

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can we run these classes in Foxrock too, so that parents there will make sure they don't bring up their sons to tie up and murder vulnerable women?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/graham-dwyer-case

Well done.
Stir it a little bit more, you fool, or people might think you are not serious.

iomusicdublin

Facts & Figures

Irish Penal Reform Trust

1. There are 3,753 people in prison custody in Ireland (01 August 2017)
2. The rate of imprisonment in Ireland is approximately 75 per 100,000 of population (August 2017).
3. In 2016, the average cost of an “available, staffed prison space” was €69,421.
4. The prison population increased by 400% from 1970 to 2011.
5. In 2016 there were 10,996 prisoners committed serving sentences of less than 12 months. This represented 90.4% of all committals to prison under sentence in 2016.
6. The majority of Irish prisoners have never sat a State exam and over half left school before the age of 15.
7. Four in ten children (under 16 years) on custodial remand have a learning disability. (Anderson & Graham 2007)
8. From 1996 to 2016, the numbers in custody increased by almost 70% (2,191 to 3,718).
9. There are 60 people in prison slopping out, without in-cell sanitation.
10. In 2016, there were 8,439 committals to prison for the non-payment of court ordered fines, a decrease from 9,883 in 2015.
11. Committals under immigration increased to 421 in 2016 from 342 in 2015.
12. In 2016 the number of committals to prison of children aged under 18 was 39; of these, 1 was 16 years old.
13. The number of sentenced committals for road traffic offences decreased from 4,756 in 2015 to 3,791 in 2016.
14. The average number of females in custody was 140 in 2016, a 6.9% increase on the 2015 average of 131.
15. In 2013, the annual cost per child in child detention schools was €314,000.
16. Dóchas women’s prison is operating at 115% of its recommended maximum capacity. (01 August 2017)
17. Prisoners in Ireland are 25 times more likely to come from (and return to) a seriously deprived area.
18. The number of prisoners on restricted regimes in July 2017 decreased by 15 persons, compared to April 2017. Figures show that there has been a decrease from 430 (April 2017) to 415 (July 2017), a decrease of 3%.
19. The average daily number of prisoners in custody rose by over 16% in the ten year period between 2006 (3,191) to 2016 (3,718).
20. 85% of fine defaulters are back in custody within four years.
21. The the daily average number of female offenders in custody rose by 29% in the ten year period between 2006 and 2016.
22. As of July 2017, 1,568 (42%) prisoners were required to use the toilet in the presence of another prisoner. Although this is a decrease in overall numbers from 2014, it is an increase in percentage terms as 1,610 (40.%) prisoners were required to use the toilet in the presence of another in July 2014.
23. Committals under sentence of less than 3 months decreased by 13.8% (from 10,229 in 2015 to 8,820 in 2016).
24. On November 30th 2016, 635 (17%) prisoners were on remand.
25. In 2008, of the 520 prisoners who enrolled in the school at Mountjoy Prison, 20% could not read or write and 30% could only sign their names.
26. As of July 2017, 2,031 (55%) prisoners were accommodated in single cells. This is an increase on July 2014 figures of 1,978 (49%) prisoners.
27. As of July 2017, 415 prisoners in total were subject to a restricted regime. 384 were restricted on grounds of order (Rule 63), of which 368 were there of their own request. 16 prisoners had been restricted on grounds of order (Rule 62).
28. As of August 2017, there were 406 sentenced prisoners (14% of sentenced prison population) aged 50+. As of August 2014, there were only 347 sentenced prisoners aged 50+ (10.8% of sentenced prison population).
29. Over a quarter (26.7%) of all persons committed to prison in 2016 declared Dublin as their country of residence.
30. Numbers committed on a life sentence decreased from 19 in 2015 to 15 in 2016.
31. According to the July 2017 census of restricted regimes, there are 10 prisoners being held on 22+ lock-up. This is a decrease of 34 (77%) on April 2017, and a 201 (95%) decrease since the commencement of the survey in July 2013.
32. In 2011, over 70% of prisoners were unemployed on committal and a similar percentage self-report as not having any particular trade or occupation.

splinter65

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can we run these classes in Foxrock too, so that parents there will make sure they don't bring up their sons to tie up and murder vulnerable women?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/graham-dwyer-case

The parenting classes are for parents whose children are turning up for school and being identified as suffering neglect.
I don’t know why you think parenting classes can cure mental disorders?

erica74

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure what else I was supposed to think when you said that you do know something about the parents, that they didn't discipline their children, that children learn from their parents, implying the old adage that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree", but the fact remains that we don't know anything about the parents of these teenagers, or these teenagers background, or how they were or weren't raised by their parents.

You appeared to be doing exactly what I said, jumping to conclusions about the parents, who realistically speaking we really do know nothing about, and that defence is used all the time in Court to argue for more lenient sentences for these feral fcukwits instead of holding them responsible for their own actions. It's easier blame the parents than acknowledge that people have minds of their own.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the part in bold.

I'm not saying people don't have minds of their own, I'm saying that the way these children were brought up reflects in their actions last night. In fact, some of the videos I saw of Lidl being looted, showed children there with their parents running out with whatever they had robbed.

I believe each individual is responsible for their own actions but I also believe that the parents of these individuals should have to answer to the court when these cases come up. They should be expected to provide an explanation to the judge as to why their children were out looting a local shop (among other businesses) and behaving like criminals and there should be a punishment for the parents as well. Let it be a lesson to all parents who think the village should be raising their children.

[Deleted User]

splinter65 wrote: »

The parenting classes are for parents whose children are turning up for school and being identified as suffering neglect.
I don’t know why you think parenting classes can cure mental disorders?

When did you decide that the problem to be solved is neglect? The OP and many others believe that parenting classes can solve the problems of criminality. So let's look at all aspects of criminality - let's do parenting classes to stop speeding, phoning, texting motorists from killing 3 or 4 people each week on the roads - why not?