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My unemployed story

Ajsoprano

I see a lot of dole bashing and if I get let go Id work in McDonald’s type posts. A lot of “they are always in the bookies” threads. So this is how the government of today has sorted out the “dole scrounger”.

I was a plumber in my early 30s making more money than doctors and accountants. All the overtime I wanted. Then things got bad and I was getting a few weeks on a few weeks off a few weeks up north then pretty much nothing.
Employers started only offering into the hand work where you had to get social welfare to make up your wage. I refused to avail of this.
I remember them changing how long your stamps lasted you until they started to harass you.
One day I was called to a meeting with a woman in the welfare office I brought my son in a buggy I thought it was just to drop in forms and the like. She moaned at me for bringing children to a meeting them tore shreds off me when I tried explain work was tight. She sent me to a private company under the jobbridge umbrella because I wasn’t getting the finger out.
First I had to do a course called steps which was a psychology type motivation course which I enjoyed and gave me a bit of confidence back.

I applied for all sorts of jobs but was told I was over qualified or I’d be back plumbing as soon as they trained me.
I went to intreo (New fas) and asked about the gas course for working on boilers. I was told I was the private companies now and intreo couldn’t deal with me.
The private company found me a placement in a car park in Dublin with an Astro and a dancing class beside a really rough flat complex. All these parents used the dancing school. There was no markings in the car park , my job was to be a yellow line. When a car parked where there was an imaginary yellow line on that day I had to tell them to move. I got non stop abuse nearly every day for a year. I also had to turn on and off the lights for the Astro in winter. I’m not one that worries too much about my mental health but looking back now I dreaded going to it and struggled sleeping on work nights. I asked for a safe pass and was told they were sorting one.
I complained about it and was told they have another opening for me in an even worse part of Dublin cleaning a green space and putting out chairs for meetings in a community centre. As far as I remember there was 3 months left on my placement and they wanted me to start this new one all over again so I stuck out the car park.
As soon as the car park job finished I emailed about the safe pass but they didn’t reply anymore.
I got s letter a week later to go to skillsteam another jobbridge type private company.
I had two meetings with them where they told me they’d only pay for my safe pass if I had a letter saying I had a job if I have a safe pass. The gas course was laughed out the door again. In meetings they kept pushing that they had retail jobs but I think this was a threat I don’t think they really had them.
Building of hotels picked up and I got a job. I got my own safe pass that Saturday and started on the Monday. I got a number of phone calls from skillsteam trying to find out my new job details so they could claim a few quid of taxpayers money for getting me off the register I never gave them to them but I’m sure they have ways around that.

I’m back working and paying between 1-200 euro a week tax no thanks to these kick the unemployed schemes.

There are people in my area that have never worked a day in their life that these schemes don’t bother. Who they will bother is you if you lose your job or your kids if they come out of school jobless.

Private companies shouldn’t be anywhere near the social welfare system and it sickens me that my tax goes to private companies to kick jobless people when they are down, humiliate them by standing them in a car park in front of friends and neighbours and parents from my kids activities.

Most people end up out of work at some stage in their life.

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Naos

Deleted User wrote: »

True. But they weren’t doing a great job. 18% is a decent start.

18% means that 82% did not get a job through them.

If you were in a room with 10 people, only one other would have a similar story to you. Eight of the other people would feel let down and that the system did not work for them and they would be right.

NinetyTwoTeam

Malia Cold Matte wrote: »

Ajsoprano wrote: »

That’s exactly why it’s important to get rid of these schemes and this government for that matter. It’s a recovery in name alone.

I don't know how many recessions and recoveries you have seen but it is certainly a recovery in real terms. And achieved much quicker than had been anticipated.

The schemes obviously weren't for you and didn't work for you (as you state ad infinitum) but they worked for many others.

No they didn't. Jobbridge was scrapped because it did more harm than good - cost the state an extra 50 per week to replace vacant positions with internships and most people who got work after doing the scheme did NOT get it with the company they interned with. The government included those outside companies to make it look like the scheme was working - even if someone on an internship just took a cashier or bar job to get off the dole.

And only 18% have got work out of Jobpath. Look it up.

I've been on it 9 months and they haven't referred me to a single employer, because employers aren't using them - they consider Jobpath clients to be scraping the bottom of the barrel and they don't need to do that unless it's for a horrible job, and they don't want to deal with the ridiculous ideas Jobpath have about 'supporting the client for a year', which amounts to ringing your employer to see how you're getting on (ie: annoying him/her) and they only do that because they need you to stay a year in the job to get their commission.

it's totally unfit for purpose. it's geared towards those who can't do the basics like make up a CV or talk about their experience in an interview - and those people aren't going to get jobs anyway considering it's still an employers market. if you have a degree, experience and are actually employable they can't help you. in fact they can't help anyone if you live in Donegal bc as my advisor said last time 'I've never seen it so quiet.'

Instead of paying this useless company to tick a few boxes next to my name every fortnight the government would be far better served to just make that money available to relocate me to somewhere that has actually experienced this miraculous recovery I keep hearing about. Over half of our government leaders are landlords so the money would have a good chance of going right back to them anyway, which they can put towards their phone or their car (oh wait, they get that for free) or maybe spend it in the Dail bar (oh wait, they don't have to pay their tab in there either). I know - they can give it to their parents to pay them back for the house deposit loans they got.

Avatar MIA

Naos wrote: »

18% means that 82% did not get a job through them.

If you were in a room with 10 people, only other other would have a similar story to you. Eight of the other people would feel let down and that the system did not work for them and they would be right.

Sorry, you want everyone to be guaranteed jobs? Russia had people manning lifts in housing blocks so everyone had a job. Is that what you had in mind?

You're looking at it all wrong. You see the 82% unemployed that failed to get a job out of it (and assigning blame to the agency, right?), and not the 18% formerly unemployed that did.

splinter65

Ajsoprano wrote: »

I do ok. My house is paid for. I’m on a decent wage. I can afford a couple of holidays a year. I’m not some student languishing in a hovel reading Karl Marx and complaining about Donald trump.

The only way socialism could work is if it was honest and if the whole world was one country.

We could have a compromise where the sick and needy were helped rather than kicked though.

I’d like good training courses for the unemployed in jobs where we have shortages of skills.

What I don’t like is a private company getting paid a fortune from the state for offering nothing but box ticking and course refusal meetings.

Where do you see the “sick and needy” being “kicked” in Ireland ? In what sense are they”kicked” here?
Socialism doesn’t work . It’s evil. It’s never worked anywhere and it never will. We need business builders to build businesses and employ people and meet the demand for goods and services.
That’s the only thing that works.
Your giving the impression that long term unemployed people are being made to break rocks in the hot afternoon sun by a cruel gang master because they couldn’t find a job.
That’s not what’s happening and you know that perfectly well.
Young able bodied people were presenting themselves as unable to find work when my husbands employer is advertising for general operatives in the Czech Republic.
Something wrong there, don’t you think?
So these companies have been brought in to sort it out.
Your sense of outrage at this is puzzling.
Years of pussyfooting around people who clearly have a different idea of what “job hunting” means hasn’t worked so a different approach is needed.
At the end of the day it must be working because unemployment is at its lowest since 10 years, and you can’t argue with that.

Ajsoprano

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Sorry, you want everyone to be guaranteed jobs? Russia had people manning lifts in housing blocks so everyone had a job. Is that what you had in mind?

You're looking at it all wrong. You see the 82% unemployed that failed to get a job out of it (and assigning blame to the agency, right?), and not the 18% formerly unemployed that did.

Really you in particular are funny. You think Russia having people manning lifts is terrible but me manning an empty car park is fine. Great even.

Avatar MIA

splinter65 wrote: »

Where do you see the “sick and needy” being “kicked” ? In what sense are they”kicked”?

The OP has moved on to starting a fascinating thread about why people are shovelling snow from their driveway, so it may be some time before he gets back to you.

Ajsoprano

splinter65 wrote: »

Where do you see the “sick and needy” being “kicked” ? In what sense are they”kicked”?

Hotels have a record occupancy rate.

Avatar MIA

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Really you in particular are funny. You think Russia having people manning lifts is terrible but me manning an empty car park is fine. Great even.

All you needed to do was paint a few lines on the ground and your job would have been sorted. So, manning a lift would probably be a reach... all them buttons could get confusing :P

NinetyTwoTeam

Do you lot honestly think that 18% would only have got work because of the wonders of Jobpath?

If they're numbers are so good, why are their so many complaints about people who got jobs on their own back being harassed by their advisor to find out where they got the job asking for the employers details to try and claim credit and get payment for it.

If you haven't been on the scheme and seen firsthand how unbelievably mickey mouse it is, you really have no idea what you're talking about and should probably keep your trap shut about it because you sound ridiculous. 18% is abysmal and is not just a reflection of the scheme but of how badly the government are exaggerating the recovery.

but I'm guessing you lot probably think 82% of the people on the scheme just don't want to work anyway, don't you? yeah, that's what i figured.

Ajsoprano

Avatar MIA wrote: »

All you needed to do was paint a few lines on the ground and your job would have been sorted. So, manning a lift would probably be a reach... all them buttons could get confusing :P

I wasn’t allowed paint the lines. It wasn’t a job some go getter could come in and get promoted to boss if he kept his nose clean because nobody else ever thought of painting lines.

If they had lines they’d have nothing for the unemployed to do or for the employed people to laugh at.

splinter65

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Hotels have a record occupancy rate.

What has this got to do with kicking the “sick and needy”? You’re gonna have to spell it out.

Ajsoprano

splinter65 wrote: »

What has this got to do with kicking the “sick and needy”? You’re gonna have to spell it out.

A lot of the sick and needy are being housed in them.

Avatar MIA

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Do you lot honestly think that 18% would only have got work because of the wonders of Jobpath?

If they're numbers are so good, why are their so many complaints about people who got jobs on their own back being harassed by their advisor to find out where they got the job asking for the employers details to try and claim credit and get payment for it.

If you haven't been on the scheme and seen firsthand how unbelievably mickey mouse it is, you really have no idea what you're talking about and should probably keep your trap shut about it because you sound ridiculous. 18% is abysmal and is not just a reflection of the scheme but of how badly the government are exaggerating the recovery.

but I'm guessing you lot probably think 82% of the people on the scheme just don't want to work anyway, don't you? yeah, that's what i figured.

You don't need your mouth open to type on boards.ie... Unless, you're a mouth breather. Are you a mouth breather? figures.

You're right, I've never stepped foot in a dole office in my life. I do however see how hard it is to employ the right staff, and see how many jobs are going unfilled at the moment in all manner of industries. Are some of these "careers" you'd go to college to achieve... no.

And we're now down to 6% unemployed, so while I do think 82% is high, 18% of people mainly unemployed for 12 months is good going. And I certainly wouldn't blame the agency for the 82%.

splinter65

Ajsoprano wrote: »

I wasn’t allowed paint the lines. It wasn’t a job some go getter could come in and get promoted to boss if he kept his nose clean because nobody else ever thought of painting lines.

If they had lines they’d have nothing for the unemployed to do or for the employed people to laugh at.

There you go again. Somehow the employed people are also partially to blame for the unemployed philosopher being forced to fulfill the DSP requirement of being available for any type of work.
The main thing is that as a result of your experience with TN/Seetec you are yet another one of the many who miraculously and coincidentally found a job themselves when it became apparent that the train had pulled into the station.
That’s the main thing. It’s all good.

Avatar MIA

Ajsoprano wrote: »

I wasn’t allowed paint the lines. It wasn’t a job some go getter could come in and get promoted to boss if he kept his nose clean because nobody else ever thought of painting lines.

If they had lines they’d have nothing for the unemployed to do or for the employed people to laugh at.

You were there, what, approx. 260 days? I can guarantee you after day one I'd have bought chalk and either bought or borrowed a tape measure and evenly spaced lines would have appeared overnight in a great mystery to rival crop circles.

And who the Fcuk was laughing at you? You do realise that was all in your own mind? Now, you were most likely "invisible" to people, but that goes for a lot of roles.

Ferris_Bueller

Question for the OP, was this car park job you had a CE or a TUS scheme? Or was it a paid position that was just offering low wages?

Naos

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Sorry, you want everyone to be guaranteed jobs? Russia had people manning lifts in housing blocks so everyone had a job. Is that what you had in mind?

You're looking at it all wrong. You see the 82% unemployed that failed to get a job out of it (and assigning blame to the agency, right?), and not the 18% formerly unemployed that did.

I never said I wanted everyone to be guaranteed jobs.

My point was that only 18% got jobs as a result of it, that is a very poor return.

Here's a question: Of the 18% that got jobs, do you think those eventual full time jobs were created as a result of Jobbridge or were they jobs that were going to be created anyway?

Avatar MIA

Naos wrote: »

I never said I wanted everyone to be guaranteed jobs.

My point was that only 18% got jobs as a result of it, that is a very poor return.

Here's a question: Of the 18% that got jobs, do you think those eventual full time jobs were created as a result of Jobbridge or were they jobs that were going to be created anyway?

I don't know. What I do know is that they were filled by those that were mainly unemployed for 12 months previously.

It's going to be incredibly hard to get a job after being unemployed for 12 months - for all manner of reasons. Fair play to them - were they helped by the experience they earned or motivated to get away from the agencies. I think it likely. Or more to the point, are there at least some that got jobs BECAUSE of the agency, then the answer is almost certainly yes.

Ajsoprano

splinter65 wrote: »

There you go again. Somehow the employed people are also partially to blame for the unemployed philosopher being forced to fulfill the DSP requirement of being available for any type of work.
The main thing is that as a result of your experience with TN/Seetec you are yet another one of the many who miraculously and coincidentally found a job themselves when it became apparent that the train had pulled into the station.
That’s the main thing. It’s all good.

I was there for a year and finished it. You seem to be making your own narrative. Your chalk wouldn’t have been visible. Take a deep breathe and decide if you are just saying random stuff to be mean. The line changed on a day by day basis for no other reason than the fella decided that’s where it was.

People were laughing at me. One evening a car pulled up and the back window came down and two twelve year olds were laughing one asked me how much I got paid then their dad or football manager started laughing.

I got shouted at regularly. One fella let his dog out of the car and tried to get him to attack me.

TheAnalyst_

TBH it does sound fairly ****e. Did you have any choice to work there?

Avatar MIA

Ajsoprano wrote: »

People were laughing at me. One evening a car pulled up and the back window came down and two twelve year olds were laughing one asked me how much I got paid then their dad or football manager started laughing.

Some people are arséholes. You're going to meet those in all walks of life. Do you think people working in offices or working on the road with the council live in an arséhole free environment. They don't.

BTW, think you got the wrong person above.

Ajsoprano

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

TBH it does sound fairly ****e. Did you have any choice to work there?

Nope I had to lie in my job interview for the job I have now saying I was there doing plumbing maintenance.
I didn’t give them as a reference. They probably would have thought it funny to give me a bad one.
When my year was up a little junkie looking fella replaced me and I could see he was a nervous wreck after a week where I showed him how to replace me.
He genuinely wanted to work but he weighed about two stone and I doubt anyone would give him a job on the look of him. He wanted to be a car washer.

Ajsoprano

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Some people are arséholes. You're going to meet those in all walks of life. Do you think people working in offices or working on the road with the council live in an arséhole free environment. They don't.

BTW, think you got the wrong person above.

You are starting to sound like a daytime talk show host. Some people were arsehole but I wasn’t trained to deal with them never mind antagonize them.

Avatar MIA

Ajsoprano wrote: »

You are starting to sound like a daytime talk show host.

I have heard of such folk, know them well do you?

Naos

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I don't know. What I do know is that they were filled by those that were mainly unemployed for 12 months previously.

It's going to be incredibly hard to get a job after being unemployed for 12 months - for all manner of reasons. Fair play to them - were they helped by the experience they earned or motivated to get away from the agencies. I think it likely. Or more to the point, are there at least some that got jobs BECAUSE of the agency, then the answer is almost certainly yes.

Right but you realise that the majority of the Jobridge scheme was made up of real jobs that would have been filled anyway by people looking for work?

Example - Tesco and the likes who had Jobbridge roles stacking shelves.

Avatar MIA

Naos wrote: »

Right but you realise that the majority of the Jobridge scheme was made up of real jobs that would have been filled anyway by people looking for work?

Example - Tesco and the likes who had Jobbridge roles stacking shelves.

Jobsbridge =/= jobpath

Although, I'd great time for Jobsbridge. A company where I worked took on someone pretty much as a trial because of jobsbridge and kept them on because they worked out so well. And, I've heard of good things from others.

Was Jobsbridge abused at times, yes it was, but that does not take away from the good it did.

Naos

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Jobsbridge =/= jobpath

Although, I'd great time for Jobsbridge. A company where I worked took on someone pretty much as a trial because of jobsbridge and kept them on because they worked out so well. And, I've heard of good things from others.

Was Jobsbridge abused at times, yes it was, but that does not take away from the good it did.

I am not denying that for some it worked out very well. However, we need to look at the bigger picture, for the many it was not a success.

Avatar MIA

Naos wrote: »

I am not denying that for some it worked out very well. However, we need to look at the bigger picture, for the many it was not a success.

Define success though. Not matter what the incentive, scheme or initiative it will not suit all.

What suggestions re improvements do you have?

Ajsoprano

Lads I’m going to bow out of this thread. It seems I’m abit insensitive in my reply’s and am offending somebody so much that they are left with no option to report my posts.
I didn’t realise I was being so aggressive and feel terrible if I made them feel anyway uncomfortable.
I’d say another day posting here and they’d have to close my account on me with all the trouble I’m causing. If the moderators could just close the thread that’d be great.
Again I apologize if I upset anyone.

Naos

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Define success though. Not matter what the incentive, scheme or initiative it will not suit all.

What suggestions re improvements do you have?

Agreed - I would define a success as one which worked for the majority as oppossed to the minority.

Do you think it was a success?

...the net benefit to unemployed youth partaking in the scheme as opposed to staying on the live register is much smaller than advertised (possibly nil), and is potentially outweighed by the negative aspects; such as loss of revenue to the state (from foregone tax and PRSI) and distortions to the entry level labour market.

- Source