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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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Timberrrrrrrr

J C wrote: »

Because an unborn child starts sucking their fingers at about 12 weeks

Quote:-
"The most dramatic development this week: reflexes. Your baby's fingers will soon begin to open and close, his toes will curl, his eye muscles will clench, and his mouth will make sucking movements.

Meanwhile, nerve cells are multiplying rapidly, and synapses are forming furiously in your baby's brain. His face looks unquestionably human:"

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc

Nowhere in your link does it say this! You have taken 2+2 and made up your own answer to suit your agenda!

Bob_Marley

Time for more 12 week photos so . . .

foetus-face-aged-12-weeks-picture-id680801467

uptherebels

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Time for more 12 week photos so . . .

again perfectly formed fingers and facial features at 12 weeks.. pull the other one while your at it

J C

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Except your cartoons are neither accurate nor anatomically correct

Your cartoons show an alleged 12 week old fetus with eyelids, fully formed ears and finger/toe separation whereas the correct (if somewhat disturbing) picture shows a different thing altogether.

Stop claiming your cartoons are "anatomically correct" when they are not.

You won't believe me ... so here is independent evidence that you are wrong about everything you say about a 12 week old unborn child.
Quote:-
Your baby is starting to look more human every day. Her eyes have moved closer together and her tiny earlobes are taking shape. She's also gaining some of the skills she'll need after she's born. She can close her fingers to make a fist and use the muscles in her mouth to suck.

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/12-weeks-pregnant

Quote:-
A fetus at 12 weeks has fully formed eyelids. These aren’t just closed tightly; they’re actually fused together and will remain that way until late in your second trimester.

Baby is able to flex his or her tiny fingers now that your third month of pregnancy is coming to an end. Those little nail beds that recently developed are already starting to sprout fingernails and toenails,"
https://www.pampers.com/en-us/pregnancy/pregnancy-calendar/12-weeks-pregnant

uck51js9zml2yt

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nowhere in your link does it say this! You have taken 2+2 and made up your own answer to suit your agenda!

You must be reading a different webpage...highlighted below.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
How your baby's growing
The most dramatic development this week: reflexes. Your baby's fingers will soon begin to open and close, his toes will curl, his eye muscles will clench, and his mouth will make sucking movements. In fact, if you prod your abdomen, your baby will squirm in response, although you won't be able to feel it.

His intestines, which have grown so fast that they protrude into the umbilical cord, will start to move into his abdominal cavity about now, and his kidneys will begin excreting urine into his bladder.

Meanwhile, nerve cells are multiplying rapidly, and synapses are forming furiously in your baby's brain. His face looks unquestionably human: His eyes have moved from the sides to the front of his head, and his ears are right where they should be. From crown to rump, your baby-to-be is just over 2 inches long (about the size of a lime) and weighs half an ounce.

Green-yellow limes with stems on light-green plate on table

Bob_Marley

uptherebels wrote: »

again perfectly formed fingers and facial features at 12 weeks.. pull the other one while your at it

Are you saying Getty images, one of the largest and oldest photo image libraries in the world are liars ? Proof please.

david75

Ehh a mod just posted not to be posting these kinds of images. Just a friendly reminder

Bob_Marley

david75 wrote: »

Ehh a mod just posted not to be posting these kinds of images. Just a friendly reminder

Cheers David, but as far as I know it's ok to post photos of alive unborn children, as opposed to the the killed/dead ones.

Timberrrrrrrr

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Time for more 12 week photos so . . .

Fingernails look manicured :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

Katie Full Leak wrote: »

You must be reading a different webpage...highlighted below.

https://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-12-weeks_1101.bc
How your baby's growing
The most dramatic development this week: reflexes. Your baby's fingers will soon begin to open and close, his toes will curl, his eye muscles will clench, and his mouth will make sucking movements. In fact, if you prod your abdomen, your baby will squirm in response, although you won't be able to feel it.

His intestines, which have grown so fast that they protrude into the umbilical cord, will start to move into his abdominal cavity about now, and his kidneys will begin excreting urine into his bladder.

Meanwhile, nerve cells are multiplying rapidly, and synapses are forming furiously in your baby's brain. His face looks unquestionably human: His eyes have moved from the sides to the front of his head, and his ears are right where they should be. From crown to rump, your baby-to-be is just over 2 inches long (about the size of a lime) and weighs half an ounce.

Green-yellow limes with stems on light-green plate on table

JC said

Because an unborn child starts sucking their fingers at about 12 weeks

Please show where in the link JC provided that this is stated!

J C

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Time for more 12 week photos so . . .

Thanks Bob ... they demand actual photos ... and when you show them ... they don't believe their own eyes !!!

... the pro-aborts have been so conditioned by their own propaganda that "it is a bunch of cells" that when the true humanity of the tiny babies they want to kill is show to them, they go into denial.

uck51js9zml2yt

A simulation a friend sent me a few years ago. Shes a cancer specialist who has published several papers based on her cancer research

The video depicts 9 months of development in 4 minutes.

https://youtu.be/heIV0u6Zvo8

Bob_Marley

J C wrote: »

Thanks Bob ... they demand actual photos

You're welcome JC - More hi res safe for viewing photos here , and from a neutral source, getty images, one of the largest image libraries in the world.
I'd say you'll be able to make great use of them.

https://www.gettyimages.ie/search/stack/624894889

J C

david75 wrote: »

Ehh a mod just posted not to be posting these kinds of images. Just a friendly reminder

You want a photo ... and when you get (a tasteful beautiful picture of a living unborn child that is almost identical to a newborn baby) ... you then threaten us with the mods on the totally spurious basis that this beautiful tasteful picture is somehow 'graphic'.

You couldn't make it up!!!

uptherebels

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Are you saying Getty images, one of the largest and oldest photo image libraries in the world are liars ? Proof please.

where did getty images say this pic was accurate?

Bob_Marley

uptherebels wrote: »

where did getty images say this pic was accurate?

They have titled them 12 WEEK OLD HUMAN FETUS, so as I said, proof please that one of the largest photo providers in the world are lying.

J C

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You're welcome JC - More hi res safe for viewing photos here , and from a neutral source, getty images, one of the largest image libraries in the world.
I'd say you'll be able to make great use of them.

https://www.gettyimages.ie/search/stack/624894889

Very interesting how squeamish the pro-abortion people are about tasteful pictures of beautiful living unborn children ... that they have no problem ripping limb from limb in abortions.

... not only do they not want to be made to look at the baby body parts in a bucket that is the direct result of the abortions they are campaigning for ... they now don't even want to be brought face to face with the beautiful living unborn babies they want to kill on demand up to 12 weeks ... and beyond.

uck51js9zml2yt

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

JC said

Please show where in the link JC provided that this is stated!

probably based on the webpage title

"Your pregnancy: 12 weeks"

But do continue to ignore reality:D

Timberrrrrrrr

J C wrote: »

You want a photo ... and when you get (a tasteful beautiful picture of a living unborn child that is almost identical to a nbewborn baby) ... you then threaten us with the mods on the totally spurious basis that this beatutiful tasteful picture is somehow 'graphic'.

You couldn't make it up!!!

That's not what he said at all! Reread his pist and apologise for having a hissy fit and accusing him of somethingbhe didnt do/say

david75

J C wrote: »

You want a photo ... and when you get (a tasteful beautiful picture of a living unborn child that is almost identical to a nbewborn baby) ... you then threaten us with the mods on the totally spurious basis that this beatutiful tasteful picture is somehow 'graphic'.

You couldn't make it up!!!

I wasn’t threatening you at all.
Man you people really do like your hysteria and making stuff up

Ps a foetus is not a child. Unborn or otherwise.

Timberrrrrrrr

Katie Full Leak wrote: »

probably based on the webpage title

"Your pregnancy: 12 weeks"

But do continue to ignore reality:D

The reality that nowhere on that webpage it is stated that a 12 week.old foetus starts to suck it's thumb/fingers as JC claimed?

uptherebels

Bob_Marley wrote: »

They have titled them 12 WEEK OLD HUMAN FETUS, so as I said, proof please that one of the largest photo providers in the world are lying.

when you posted this pic before i pointed out the differences between it and an actual 12 week foetus?

And i believe the photographer would have titled it, and if the title is all you have to cling to with no actual proof then....

Bob_Marley

david75 wrote: »

Ps a foetus is not a child. Unborn or otherwise.

Same false claim again ? . . .looks like it's Leo time again Dave . . .

A fetus is an unborn child and a human life. Even Varadkar has corrected people on that. And in addition to the article below, you can listen to the recent interview with him on RTE radio, where he says when talking about abortion, a fetus and unborn child are the one and the same.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dont-use-foetus-when-you-mean-baby-varadkar-35234768.html

You can use the term fetus all day long, but no one is fooled that it's not a human life / baby /unborn child.

J C

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Fingernails look manicured :rolleyes:

Please stop embarassing your self ... you have lost this argument ... the photo is obviously a 12 wek old unborn child

The quotes below from totally independent sources precisely describe the features in the (totally independent) Getty Photo of a 12 week child

Quote:-
Your baby is starting to look more human every day. Her eyes have moved closer together and her tiny earlobes are taking shape. She's also gaining some of the skills she'll need after she's born. She can close her fingers to make a fist and use the muscles in her mouth to suck.

https://www.babycentre.co.uk/12-weeks-pregnant

Quote:-
A fetus at 12 weeks has fully formed eyelids. These aren’t just closed tightly; they’re actually fused together and will remain that way until late in your second trimester.

Baby is able to flex his or her tiny fingers now that your third month of pregnancy is coming to an end. Those little nail beds that recently developed are already starting to sprout fingernails and toenails,"
https://www.pampers.com/en-us/pregnancy/pregnancy-calendar/12-weeks-pregnant[/QUOTE]

Bob_Marley

uptherebels wrote: »

when you posted this pic before i pointed out the differences between it and an actual 12 week foetus?

And i believe the photographer would have titled it, and if the title is all you have to cling to with no actual proof then....

Still waiting for any shred of proof that Getty images are lying . . .

J C

Bob_Marley wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dont-use-foetus-when-you-mean-baby-varadkar-35234768.html

You can use the term fetus all day long, but no one is fooled that it's not a human life / baby /unborn child.

Lets hear what Leo had to say ... its powerful stuff ... and blows this 'fetus' nonesense out of the water.

Quote:-
"But he (Leo Varadkar)went on to question the use of word 'foetus' in such contexts.

"I met a friend of mine for dinner on Saturday night and she was pregnant, expecting her first child . . . I did ask her if she knew what sex the baby was. I didn't ask what sex the foetus was," said Minister Varadkar, who is a qualified doctor.

"If I did ask her about her foetus, she would have been quite offended.

"And the same goes for my sisters because, to me, a foetus is a medical word.

"It's like talking of your glossus instead of your tongue or your digits instead of your fingers.

"I often wonder why people use that word.

"It is yet to be explained to me why people use a medical word to talk about what is a form of human life, if not a person," said the minister."

... so next time you use your glossus to pontificate on something you actually know nothing about (the features of a 12 week old unborn baby) ... I would urge you to keep your buccal cavity closed ... to avoid confirming your objective lack of knowledge on the subject.:eek:

david75

This same Leo has also said he’s supporting repealing the eighth, I don’t know but you guys seem to be unaware of that.

end of the road

uptherebels wrote: »

You mean we call them a foetus because thats what they are?

no it's to dehumanise them. they are an unborn baby. when speaking to a pregnant woman you don't ask her "how are you and the fetus doing" you ask her "how are you and the baby doing"

david75 wrote: »

My interpration of arrogance as it relates to this issue is repeatedly posting flawed and misleading and outright lies as facts via articles and images that are designed to mislead and be hysteric and create doubt.
It’s arrogant to believe anyone is falling for it. Never mind arrogant to do it at all.

Not to mention the obnoxious arrogance of trying to control women’s bodily autonomy and personal choices.

none of this is happening, so there is nothing to fall or not fall for. everyone of us have our bodily autonomy and personal choices controled where exercising such will cause harm or death to others.

J C

david75 wrote: »

I wasn’t threatening you at all.
Man you people really do like your hysteria and making stuff up

What was this then?

david75 wrote: »

Ehh a mod just posted not to be posting these kinds of images. Just a friendly reminder

david75 wrote: »

Ps a foetus is not a child. Unborn or otherwise.

Its actually a baby ... according to Taoiseach and Medical Doctor, Leo Varadkar.
Quote:-
"I met a friend of mine for dinner on Saturday night and she was pregnant, expecting her first child . . . I did ask her if she knew what sex the baby was. I didn't ask what sex the foetus was," said Minister Varadkar, who is a qualified doctor.

"If I did ask her about her foetus, she would have been quite offended.

... "It is yet to be explained to me why people use a medical word to talk about what is a form of human life, if not a person,"

I can give Leo the answer to that ... the pro-abort people refer to the baby as a fetus ... to distance themselves from the horror of killing a tiny innocent baby.
... and to dehumanise the baby ... so that they can kill it with impunity.

Delirium

MOD NOTE

david75 wrote: »

Ehh a mod just posted not to be posting these kinds of images. Just a friendly reminder

No need to backseat moderate, if you think someone is breaching the charter/ a mod instruction please use the report button.

@everyone: I didn't say no images were allowed (though personally I'd rather discussion over an image thread) but that graphic images aren't allowed. Even if you link rather than embed.

With the exception of one picture, the images JC was posting weren't a problem. Same with Bobs.

@JC could you please restrain your bolded font use as there have been complaints about it.

Thanks for your attention.