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Wall fixing for insulated plasterboard???

ShaneW1986

Hi folks. Was wondering if anyone has had any experience or can recommend a decent wall fixing arrangement for insulated plasterboard? Approximately 40mm of insulation on the back of the plasterboard.

I don't want to have to cut holes in the plasterboard and insert wood if at all possible.

I'd be looking to hang things like TV bracket and TV, art and pictures, curtain rails and curtains, bathroom mirror and other stuff like that I'd say maximum weight on any of the following would be 30kg or so at most?

Cheers for any suggestions.

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Water John

There are ties that you drive in. They have a large penny on the inside. You can get them in metal or plastic. I think I read elsewhere here, that regs stipulate, at least 2 metal per board. Some think the metal ones provide bridging points for heat. With the metal ones, you get stuff to paint the metal with so it doesn't rust and show through the plaster.

https://www.mcmahons.ie/metal-insulation-fixing-8x50mm-bag-50

Length depends on your board thickness.

GreeBo

Water John wrote: »

There are ties that you drive in. They have a large penny on the inside. You can get them in metal or plastic. I think I read elsewhere here, that regs stipulate, at least 2 metal per board. Some think the metal ones provide bridging points for heat. With the metal ones, you get stuff to paint the metal with so it doesn't rust and show through the plaster.

https://www.mcmahons.ie/metal-insulation-fixing-8x50mm-bag-50

Length depends on your board thickness.

I think the OP is looking for a way to fix things to insulated plasterboard rather than fix the board itself.

OP I find these to be pretty reliable, but if I was hanging a TV or something of 30KG I'd ignore what they are rated for and I would want to fix to structure.

Depending on the size of what you are attaching, you just need some wood that will span two studs, fix that to the studs and fix your item to that. You can use finishing pine etc or paint to make it less obvious if any of it is showing, but with 30KG I doubt you would see it unless you are hanging kettlebells!

listermint

Water John wrote: »

There are ties that you drive in. They have a large penny on the inside. You can get them in metal or plastic. I think I read elsewhere here, that regs stipulate, at least 2 metal per board. Some think the metal ones provide bridging points for heat. With the metal ones, you get stuff to paint the metal with so it doesn't rust and show through the plaster.

https://www.mcmahons.ie/metal-insulation-fixing-8x50mm-bag-50

Length depends on your board thickness.

Thats for installing the boards.

What he is looking for i believe is anchors to hang things to a preinstalled board.

something like this OP is ideal

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-intersets-m6-x-52mm-pack-of-20.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA8bnUBRA-EiwAc0hZk9xAVUD8NTihkKJDUcXn02DqH2zUt8XTnB7fdKsf7OpB9mWCsUjhchoCdccQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

and the tool for them

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-heavy-duty-setting-tool.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA8bnUBRA-EiwAc0hZk0pfs1P5Kw5s-pZESvtcFOiO_P5PSoEjA8vK52IWqr2sJ3XM-rUCsRoCeIYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

GreeBo

listermint wrote: »

something like this OP is ideal

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-intersets-m6-x-52mm-pack-of-20.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA8bnUBRA-EiwAc0hZk9xAVUD8NTihkKJDUcXn02DqH2zUt8XTnB7fdKsf7OpB9mWCsUjhchoCdccQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

and the tool for them

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-heavy-duty-setting-tool.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA8bnUBRA-EiwAc0hZk0pfs1P5Kw5s-pZESvtcFOiO_P5PSoEjA8vK52IWqr2sJ3XM-rUCsRoCeIYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

These aren't great as there is no hollow behind the board (there is insulation)

aaronm13

Use concrete screws. You can get them in all different lengths and take a serious amount of weight. Just drill a 6mm hole into the concrete/block and drive the screws in. They'll hold anything just need a powerful drill to drive them in.

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/easydrive-countersunk-head-concrete-screws-6-x-100mm-100-pack.html
Most builers providers sell them loose if you just need a few.

GreeBo

aaronm13 wrote: »

Use concrete screws. You can get them in all different lengths and take a serious amount of weight. Just drill a 6mm hole into the concrete/block and drive the screws in. They'll hold anything just need a powerful drill to drive them in.

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/easydrive-countersunk-head-concrete-screws-6-x-100mm-100-pack.html
Most builers providers sell them loose if you just need a few.

They wont like being unsupported for 50mm of their length...you would want to be getting *very* long, thick ones

listermint

GreeBo wrote: »

These aren't great as there is no hollow behind the board (there is insulation)

They are perfectly fine, the insulation is Foam, these press into the foam with zero issues. They are far stronger than the method you linked to tbh which are not worthwhile unless putting something relatively light on the wall.

have you used the hollow anchors before ?

GreeBo

listermint wrote: »

They are perfectly fine, the insulation is Foam, these press into the foam with zero issues.

I wouldnt use them, since thats exactly not what they are designed for.

listermint wrote: »

They are far stronger than the method you linked to tbh which are not worthwhile unless putting something relatively light on the wall.

Its not a competition!
As I pointed out in my post, I find them useful for lighter things and advised *against* putting a heavy weight on them.

listermint wrote: »

have you used the hollow anchors before ?

Yes I have, I have used them all.

I wouldnt hang 20KG of anything off plasterboard without fixing to structure, as I said in my earlier post.

aaronm13

GreeBo wrote: »

They wont like being unsupported for 50mm of their length...you would want to be getting *very* long, thick ones

They will go nowhere, trust me. They're 7.5mm thick, have you ever tried bending them. As long as you get a good fix in the wall you're sorted.

GreeBo

aaronm13 wrote: »

They will go nowhere, trust me. They're 7.5mm thick, have you ever tried bending them. As long as you get a good fix in the wall you're sorted.

Bending them is one thing, them pulling themselves out of the wall is another.
Typically you would want 30-40mm into the masonry to get the maximum pull out strength, 30KG is a lot of force, depending on what and how its being fixed to the wall.
Especially if the "concrete wall" is a cavity block for example.

aaronm13

GreeBo wrote: »

Bending them is one thing, them pulling themselves out of the wall is another.
Typically you would want 30-40mm into the masonry to get the maximum pull out strength, 30KG is a lot of force, depending on what and how its being fixed to the wall.
Especially if the "concrete wall" is a cavity block for example.

Sure, each to their own. I've never experienced them coming loose in all the years using them. To me the best fixings bar none but sure what would I know I'm only a carpenter. We've been fixing kitchen presses for example for years and they're a lot heavier than anything the OP will be fixing with them.

listermint

GreeBo wrote: »

Bending them is one thing, them pulling themselves out of the wall is another.
Typically you would want 30-40mm into the masonry to get the maximum pull out strength, 30KG is a lot of force, depending on what and how its being fixed to the wall.
Especially if the "concrete wall" is a cavity block for example.

Seems it is a competition. Because your assertion that a hollow toggle with get damaged by foam backing is hilarious.

To put it mildly.

GreeBo

listermint wrote: »

Seems it is a competition. Because your assertion that a hollow toggle with get damaged by foam backing is hilarious.

To put it mildly.

If you could go ahead and show where I said that, that would be great.
They are designed for hollow walls, insulated plasterboard is not a cavity.
Using things contrary to how they were designed is not sensible.

Not only do you risk the fixing coming loose as it's not fixed secretly, you are creating a nice thermal gap in your insulation.

But sure fire ahead, you can probably screw it in with your hammer drill while you are at it.

listermint

Well if thats the case your screw in fitting creates a thermal gap too.

time to tear that wall down and put in studs

GreeBo

listermint wrote: »

Well if thats the case your screw in fitting creates a thermal gap too.

time to tear that wall down and put in studs

The screw in fitting I linked goes into the plasterboard, not the insulation.
so no, it doesnt impact the thermal properties of the insulation.

You have to drill a large hole to get your fittings in, creating a large gap to the concrete wall...even then if there is no gap behind the insulation, how do you expect the spring toggle to open at all?

listermint

Yes ok.

..

FMG

Hi Greebo, do you mark and make a hole wide enough for the cable at the back and then mark and cut out the box from the front leaving the insulation intact behind box, also do you scrape oit the sides to allow the wings to close on the plasterboard ?

dodzy

Op, disregard the fittings in post 3, they’re crap
If you’re looking to wall mount a TV with no tilt/swivel, use fittings linked in post 4. They will also be perfect for curtain poles/shelving etc, but do purchase the setting tool also; it’s an invaluable piece of kit.
Assuming the insulated boards are directly onto concrete, use link in post 6 if your intention is to fit a big ass tv with full tilt swivel functionality. If onto studs, then locate them and just use 3.5-4” wood screws.

GreeBo

FMG wrote: »

Hi Greebo, do you mark and make a hole wide enough for the cable at the back and then mark and cut out the box from the front leaving the insulation intact behind box, also do you scrape oit the sides to allow the wings to close on the plasterboard ?

Are you asking about when you are actually installing the insulated boards or after the fact?

Assuming its during insulation then yes, I'll cut a channel for the cabling, as shallow as possible, then cut out the box from the front and scrape back enough space for the wings to hit clear plasterboard.

Same as with the hollow wall anchors suggested in post 4, you need them to be tightening against the plasterboard and *not* the insulation or they will work loose.

FMG

GreeBo wrote: »

Are you asking about when you are actually installing the insulated boards or after the fact?

Assuming its during insulation then yes, I'll cut a channel for the cabling, as shallow as possible, then cut out the box from the front and scrape back enough space for the wings to hit clear plasterboard.

Same as with the hollow wall anchors suggested in post 4, you need them to be tightening against the plasterboard and *not* the insulation or they will work loose.

Thanks Greebo, was asking about the recessed box's , the scraping back for the wings is a bit of a pain but well worth it for the strong clean finish when done this way.

tom1ie

GreeBo wrote: »

Bending them is one thing, them pulling themselves out of the wall is another.
Typically you would want 30-40mm into the masonry to get the maximum pull out strength, 30KG is a lot of force, depending on what and how its being fixed to the wall.
Especially if the "concrete wall" is a cavity block for example.

You won’t pull concrete screws out of a wall. I have most of my fixtures, TVs, and shelves fixed through insulated plasterboard directly to the concrete wall behind the insulated plasterboard using the concrete screw method and nothing has budged or moved in the 6 years I’ve been in my house. Any other method, bar removing the insulated plasterboard and replacing with wood, just isn’t up to scratch, and if your removing the insulation, sure what was the point in insulating?

Just make sure if u have a 50mm insulated board that you have more than 50mm gone into the solid wall, ie use 120mm screws.

GreeBo

tom1ie wrote: »

Just make sure if u have a 50mm insulated board that you have more than 50mm gone into the solid wall, ie use 120mm screws.

Which is pretty much exactly what I said. You have to ensure the screw is at least the manufactures minimum embed amount, typically 35-40mm, depending on the material.
With 40-50mm of insulation, 12.5 mm or more of board and who knows how deep a fixture, I wouldn't use the 100mm recommended earlier.

tom1ie

GreeBo wrote: »

Which is pretty much exactly what I said. You have to ensure the screw is at least the manufactures minimum embed amount, typically 35-40mm, depending on the material.
With 40-50mm of insulation, 12.5 mm or more of board and who knows how deep a fixture, I wouldn't use the 100mm recommended earlier.

Ok buddy didn’t read ur post just giving my opinion to the op. Plenty of good advice for ya op.