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Clontarf Baths demolishion/redevelopement

marvin42

I seen this morning that demolishing works on the Clontarf Seawater swimming pool have started. It seems the place is going to be redeveloped and will be open to public again. Has anyone more information about this project?

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odyssey06

dubrov wrote: »

What is the difference to a direct subsidy? They would still be subsidising a private business against which other private businesses have to compete without subsidies.

Are there any other private businesses offering open air seawater baths?
Are discounted playing pitches not a massive subsidy which means no private business could make a profit providing same service?
DCC provides allotments on public lands... thereby competing or inhibiting another business from doing so.

Presumably it is the nature of the activity itself that matters as to whether DCC should have a role in it.

dubrov

odyssey06 wrote: »

Perhaps Dublin City Council could 'sponsor' a swimming club based at the Baths ... this would not be subsiding the business directly. Dublin City Council provides such indirect support to other athletic activities e.g. playing pitches. But that's not ideal...

What is the difference to a direct subsidy? They would still be subsidising a private business against which other private businesses have to compete without subsidies.

odyssey06

Does Dublin City Council hold the site lease? The lease should have outlined the conditions of operation, namely seawater baths open to the paying public.

I don't think it could be enforced through the mechanism of planning permission, although I doubt that councillors would have voted for the planning permission for the bar and restaurant renovations had they known the baths would not be open to the paying public.

Perhaps Dublin City Council could 'sponsor' a swimming club based at the Baths ... this would not be subsiding the business directly. Dublin City Council provides such indirect support to other athletic activities e.g. playing pitches. But that's not ideal...

L1011

kbannon wrote: »

But how would the planning laws dictate that paid public swimming be allowed simply because there's a bar and restaurant?
On that basis the GAA club across the road should let the public turn up anytime they want as long as they can slip a few bob!
I don't understand your logic

The GAA club don't have a bar licence. Members club.

dubrov

Seems crazy they would invest so much without making sure that there was sufficient funding to run it.

The cynic in me suggests that the pool was never a priority and the main goal was to get planning for a bar and restaurant right beside the sea.

Either way, the council should not be subsidising a private enterprise

Seth Brundle

expectationlost wrote: »

because they got their restaurant and bar because of the baths so they should run its as paid-public swimming pool, thats what the deal should be.

But how would the planning laws dictate that paid public swimming be allowed simply because there's a bar and restaurant?
On that basis the GAA club across the road should let the public turn up anytime they want as long as they can slip a few bob!
I don't understand your logic

tabby aspreme

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Indeed. Give that place to any experienced restaurateur and they'd probably make a killing. But they've never run a restaurant before. That's why they're opening gradually.

The people behind it have plenty of experience

Tusky

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why should DCC step in to subsidise a private facility? THis is a private business. Their insurance is their own problem to solve.

I meant step in to take the licence off them. This crowd are leasing the site from DCC for €25k per year. They were allowed build the restaurant and bar because of the pool. But now people won't be able to use the pool. It's madness.

expectationlost

kbannon wrote: »

Why should it have been?

because they got their restaurant and bar because of the baths so they should run its as paid-public swimming pool, thats what the deal should be.

odyssey06

Dunno if it has been posted before, interesting article on the history of the various Dublin baths.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2017/06/the-ruins-of-summer/

[Deleted User]

Tusky wrote: »

Was thinking exactly the same. Should DCC not step in? This was pitched as a heated outdoor pool for public use. And now it won't be open to the pubic or be heated. Very disappointing.

Only in Ireland can you get a pint at a swimming pool but not a swim.

Why should DCC step in to subsidise a private facility? THis is a private business. Their insurance is their own problem to solve.

Seth Brundle

expectationlost wrote: »

was the planning dependent on paid-public swimming if not why not?

Why should it have been?

expectationlost

was the planning dependent on paid-public swimming if not why not?

Tusky

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0222/942806-clontarf-baths/

By Samantha Libreri
The renovated seawater baths in Clontarf in Dublin are due to reopen next week after lying derelict for more than two decades.

However, the new owners say the pool will initially only be available to swimming and sports clubs.

They said they will need Dublin City Council to help them with the €400,000 cost of running the baths before they can open it to the general public.

However, the council says it is not in a position to subsidise the running of the baths.

Built in the 1800s, the facility was closed to the public in the mid 1990s.

The current owners, the Cullen family, who own Seafield Hotel in Wexford and the Turks Head pub in Temple Bar, purchased the site 25 years ago.

They secured planning permission to develop the baths in 2012. Over the past 18 months, they have spent almost €2.5m refurbishing the site, which now includes a bar and restaurant.

While the dining area will open its doors next week, the owners say the pool will not open until late April and when it does it will be restricted to adult swimming and sports clubs.

David Cullen of The Baths at Clontarf said bringing a pool of this magnitude to the wider community is "not really feasible" for a private enterprise and that issues, such as insurance and health and safety, make it difficult.

He said the pool will cost €400,000 a year to operate and that they have asked Dublin City Council to help them with that cost so that they can grant access to the wider public, which he said was their "ultimate goal".

But in a statement to RTÉ, Dublin City Council said the Clontarf Baths is a private enterprise and that it is not in a position to subsidise the cost of running the pool.

Mr Cullen said there is a chance the facility will not be opened to the general public if they do not receive financial support for the project, adding that it would be a shame if that happened.

Locals say they are delighted this derelict site has been brought back to life and an eyesore removed from the seafront.

But Deirdre Nichol of the Clontarf Residents’ Association said it is important that the facility is available to the wider public, as the requirements to be a club member and have insurance was not feasible for everyone.

Tusky

Adriana Putrid Silver wrote: »

You obviously didn't read my post BV above!
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/942424/

I think this is being misreported. As far as I understand it, the restaurant and bar will be open to all, but the swimming pool will only be open to swimming clubs who book it for private use and provide their own lifeguards and insurance.

From the website: "Our intention is to open the pool for as many people as possible, but it is expensive to run. Therefore, please help us gauge your interest so we can work towards providing this amazing facility to all!

"Initially the pool will open to clubs of all varieties who can provide their own insurance and life guards."

uck51js9zml2yt

Tusky wrote: »

Was thinking exactly the same. Should DCC not step in? This was pitched as a heated outdoor pool for public use. And now it won't be open to the pubic or be heated. Very disappointing.

Only in Ireland can you get a pint at a swimming pool but not a swim.

You obviously didn't read my post BV above!
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/942424/

Tusky

OSI wrote: »

I love how it's gone from a periodically heated public pool, to completely unheated and only accessible to those in swimming clubs. The pool almost seems somewhat redundant, colour me cynical.

Was thinking exactly the same. Should DCC not step in? This was pitched as a heated outdoor pool for public use. And now it won't be open to the pubic or be heated. Very disappointing.

Only in Ireland can you get a pint at a swimming pool but not a swim.

uck51js9zml2yt

Read today that the sea baths is opening to the public next week.

wakka12

OSI wrote: »

I love how it's gone from a periodically heated public pool, to completely unheated and only accessible to those in swimming clubs. The pool almost seems somewhat redundant, colour me cynical.

The baths are just PR publicity campaign .. clearly the developers main interest is the restaurant. It's better than it being derelict I guess

Gloomtastic!

humberklog wrote: »

Coddle pizza?

Looking forward to trying it!

humberklog

Coddle pizza?

odyssey06

Supposed to be opening next week...
http://www.thejournal.ie/clontarf-baths-3863707-Feb2018/

The large swimming pool contains a sluice that will allow filtered and clean Irish Sea water to enter and pump it out again in a refreshment process every few weeks. Part of today’s court application included the presentation of a food menu for the Baths’ two restaurants, it includes seaweed-seasoned cocktails and Dublin coddle pizzas. The main restaurant can provide seats for 160, with a further 90 seats available on a weather-proofed outside terrace – both with panoramic views of Dublin Bay. In order for a new development to be granted a pub licence, an existing one has to be extinguished. Cullen, who owns the Seafield Hotel and Spa Resort in Co Wexford and the Turk’s Head in Dublin, bought out the licence formerly attached to Browns Bar on the Naas Road in Co Dublin for €60,000.

I don't think anyone will be sipping poolside Pina Coladas just yet...

odyssey06

MisterDrak wrote: »

Also mentioned earlier in the tread, as cars are pulling out from the Baths / Restaurant they must cross the cycle route. At the weekends I know some lads doing sessions along that route and are moving pretty quick...
I'm just waiting for the headlines !

Won't be just cars in the mix, it'll be pedestrians, families with kids on little pushbikes and prams etc... they'll be treating that section as a car park not as a cycle route, and I've seen how oblivious some people are in car parks.
Short of some sort of BMX ramp so the bikes can jump that section it's going to be a melee.

MisterDrak

odyssey06 wrote: »

But usually at least 50 cars are already in it at weekends though as it is... the baths has 250 capacity, just for restaurant, add another 50 for baths ?

If we assume a third of the users are travelling by car... then unless they magic up some spaces nearby, then I think there's going to be parking issues in the area for sure / or an emptier restaurant.

It is walkable for me, so handy for dinner\drinks... but certainly if I'm out and about during the day and want to call in for lunch but need to be somewhere before hand or afterwards quickly then I'd need the car.
A lot of other people will be thinking along the same lines.

Also mentioned earlier in the tread, as cars are pulling out from the Baths / Restaurant they must cross the cycle route. At the weekends I know some lads doing sessions along that route and are moving pretty quick...
I'm just waiting for the headlines !

They don't have this problem 400m up the road at Vernon Ave, as the cycle path cuts around the inside of the car park.

odyssey06

Downtime wrote: »

It is 5 minutes walk to the nearest car park which has at least 60 spaces in it.

But usually at least 50 cars are already in it at weekends though as it is... the baths has 250 capacity, just for restaurant, add another 50 for baths ?

If we assume a third of the users are travelling by car... then unless they magic up some spaces nearby, then I think there's going to be parking issues in the area for sure / or an emptier restaurant.

It is walkable for me, so handy for dinner\drinks... but certainly if I'm out and about during the day and want to call in for lunch but need to be somewhere before hand or afterwards quickly then I'd need the car.
A lot of other people will be thinking along the same lines.

bbbbb

If I recall correctly, the semicircular road is closed off, but if it was reopened as a one way, and parking perpendicular to the kerb ( I think it's wide enough) then there would be a good amount of parking.

Downtime

onimpulse wrote: »

Where are the customers going to park? There is only 8 /10 spaces there & the road outside is a bus lane.

It’s not near the dart & a good walk from car parks... or at least too much of a walk for a lot of people.

It is 5 minutes walk to the nearest car park which has at least 60 spaces in it.

Stephen Strange

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Their nerves must be shredded by this stage, you have to wish them the best!!

I'd say it's more likely the bank's nerves are shredded!

Seth Brundle

bren2001 wrote: »

This is due to open at the end of next month. It looks like a disaster.
<snip>
It also looks absolutely terrible. Its looks like a concrete mess.

I think the concrete helps it retain a lot of the "character" of the old baths!

onimpulse

Where are the customers going to park? There is only 8 /10 spaces there & the road outside is a bus lane.

It’s not near the dart & a good walk from car parks... or at least too much of a walk for a lot of people.