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LED Street Lights vs Sodium Streetlights

Andy From Sligo

The estate at the back of us has had its street lights (or rather just the head part insides, or bulb part) changed to white LED lights.

I can see why council's are preferring these, cheaper/economical to run, low maintenance, long lasting but I personally think they are a poor substitute Lumen/brightness wise to conventional sodium SOX / HPS lights - I bet the outlay is huge in the first place isnt it? most probably saves money over time I suppose.... but yeah, they dont seem to be as bright as the ones they replace.

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degsie

are LED bulbs not very heavy???

Andy From Sligo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

LED streetlights FTW. Far better visibility when driving, particularly in poor weather conditions

and yet I find personally out of the whole lot of SON/SOX MH LED - I personally prefer the SOX LPS Sodium light when driving, less glare on the eyes and less reflection off the (wet) road surface

Andy From Sligo

degsie wrote: »

are LED bulbs not very heavy???

no, one of the features along with extremely long life (if they have their heat correctly dissipated) and cooler operating temperature they are light - the reflector might add a bit of weight but reflector normally aluminium, and you would have to have heavy thick Glass lens on sodium because of heat Sodium lamps give off, but could get away with lighter poly-carbonate plastic lens for LED .. so no, really the LED head should be much lighter than the SODIUM head it replaces

Capt'n Midnight

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder how they make them warmer? - maybe they put a tiny amount of red colour into lens of the LED bulb as they manufacture them?

Usually "white" is a blue LED with phosphors to emit yellow light.

A different phosphor composition would give a different colour balance.

You can also get RGB LED's which are actually three different colour LED's in the one package, so you can dial a colour by changing the amount of Red, Green or Blue but they aren't used for street lights. But you could have cool effects if you did.

Andy From Sligo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Usually "white" is a blue LED with phosphors to emit yellow light.

A different phosphor composition would give a different colour balance.

You can also get RGB LED's which are actually three different colour LED's in the one package, so you can dial a colour by changing the amount of Red, Green or Blue but they aren't used for street lights. But you could have cool effects if you did.

oh too right, could you imagine RGB colour changing street lights - that would brighten things up

I bought a roll of these recently off ebay - supposed to be warm white (well thats what I ordered and thats what it said on the pack ... still look crisp white light to my eyes. - surprisingly very bright though.

Then you have at the end of the day different LED lights out now these days just to confuse things even further - the ones I ordered on a self adhesive strip are SMD 320 lights - i think the ones in all LED street lamps are normal LED soldered onto a main PCB

Heres the type I ordered recently - they work on a 12volt 2amp transformer:

Odyssey 2005

Whoosh..

HonalD

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

LED streetlights FTW. Far better visibility when driving, particularly in poor weather conditions

and yet I find personally out of the whole lot of SON/SOX MH LED - I personally prefer the SOX LPS Sodium light when driving, less glare on the eyes and less reflection off the (wet) road surface

That’s your preference but LED lights are more cost effective and give better visibility to motorists.

Donald Trump

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

The estate at the back of us has had its street lights (or rather just the head part insides, or bulb part) changed to white LED lights.

I can see why council's are preferring these, cheaper/economical to run, low maintenance, long lasting but I personally think they are a poor substitute Lumen/brightness wise to conventional sodium SOX / HPS lights - I bet the outlay is huge in the first place isnt it? most probably saves money over time I suppose.... but yeah, they dont seem to be as bright as the ones they replace.

You're not fooling us Andy

Stop trying to pretend you have electricity in Sligo already

Cookie_Monster

Braden Ambitious Snot wrote: »

I really wish society would move away from bright lights of all types. It's such a shame that we are no longer able to view the night sky in all it's glory.

+1, apart from city centres most street lights really should be done away with altogether. It's be so much nicer if the place got properly dark at night. Or at the very least turn them off from 12-4 or something like that if people feel the need to justify them in the late evening or mornings but not all night. It's a monumental waste of power as well.

HonalD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Braden Ambitious Snot wrote: »

I really wish society would move away from bright lights of all types. It's such a shame that we are no longer able to view the night sky in all it's glory.

+1, apart from city centres most street lights really should be done away with altogether. It's be so much nicer if the place got properly dark at night. Or at the very least turn them off from 12-4 or something like that if people feel the need to justify them in the late evening or mornings but not all night. It's a monumental waste of power as well.

And cost, it's very expensive to operate and maintain.

[Deleted User]

I find some LED street lamps to emit a very dazzling light they need a filter of some sort, the glare can be terrible. I like the light colour though on most of them beats any yellow street light any day.

Due to the ease of control these led lights should be fitted with timers to shut off or dim at certain times of the night like they do in Germany. It's great to see the night sky so clear and the Milky Way in such glory.

It seems like councils are going for the brightest light possible, we need street lighting not flood lighting and that's what so many led bulbs seem to be like.

It's reducing light pollution not increasing it we should be doing, so many businesses and homes with light beaming into the sky all night long because of cheap led bulbs, they need to put restrictions on light because it is/can be a form of pollution.

Best lights I've seen so far are those in CO Laois almost in Carlow town around the ring road by Dinnes Stores the Talbot etc.

We need LED lights to offer light without flooding the place with ultra bright light, this message needs to be relayed to county councils.

I see the effect ultra bright lighting has in our work place , I work shift and at night you can clearly see birds flying around and no they're not bats because the lights are so bright in the industrial area I can clearly see the birds. You don;t want this replicated in every town and village in the country.

[Deleted User]

These were the best lights ever, mercury vapour , they were banned a few years ago but offered a very good light colour, white with a tint of blue. I loved the way the fired up.

Gas lights don't have the piercing glare that led bulbs have, it's very dazzling, they need filters.

The old Mercury light starting up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI8bEp-Eu8I

Big Nasty

Really dislike the bright white LED street lights. Much prefer the warm glow of the sodium lights. The attached is the current view over Dublin city at night. I dread the day when it becomes a cold bright white.

[Deleted User]

White light is good, yellow is dirty, it turns everything a filthy dirty yellow also.

It's not warm it's filthy. lol

They need to to tone LEDs down a bit with filtering to make them less harsh.

Andy From Sligo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find some LED street lamps to emit a very dazzling light they need a filter of some sort, the glare can be terrible. I like the light colour though on most of them beats any yellow street light any day.

Due to the ease of control these led lights should be fitted with timers to shut off or dim at certain times of the night like they do in Germany. It's great to see the night sky so clear and the Milky Way in such glory.

It seems like councils are going for the brightest light possible, we need street lighting not flood lighting and that's what so many led bulbs seem to be like.

It's reducing light pollution not increasing it we should be doing, so many businesses and homes with light beaming into the sky all night long because of cheap led bulbs, they need to put restrictions on light because it is/can be a form of pollution.

Best lights I've seen so far are those in CO Laois almost in Carlow town around the ring road by Dinnes Stores the Talbot etc.

We need LED lights to offer light without flooding the place with ultra bright light, this message needs to be relayed to county councils.

I see the effect ultra bright lighting has in our work place , I work shift and at night you can clearly see birds flying around and no they're not bats because the lights are so bright in the industrial area I can clearly see the birds. You don;t want this replicated in every town and village in the country.

For many years now that's exactly what main streetlight manufacturers like Philips, osram, GE, and the like have been trying to do is stopping sky pollution by re-designing street light heads with improvements on reflectors, lens, and glass covers so that they direct as much light possible downwards so it doesn't light up the sky. I used to work on a electrical trade counter and telephone sales in the late 1980"s in the UK and we had trade catalogues for lighting in commercial applications and amongst many of the selling features were the efficiency of the reflectors to do just this and direct as much light as possible downwards ànd not to the sky. But light designed in the 60s and 70s didn't have any efficient reflectors or no reflectors at all fitted to them , they would have really polluted the skies, but on the other hand there wouldn't have been as many streetlights around as there are today. Thankfully they did consider re-designing reflectors and lens now back in the 80's because could you imagine how much worse light pollution would be now in the sky with the amount of streetlights around today.

Now of course at that time thé lighting used by the council's and factorys would have been low pressure sodium Sox lamps and mercury vapour and metal halide.

No one ever dreamt that time that one day led lights would ever be used for street lighting! LED at time was just assigned to clock displays and indicators and on signal lamps of electronic equipment and the like

[Deleted User]

One of the issues with LED street lights is that a lot of them are too bright for their location but one good example of good lighting is in Laois on the ring road around Dunnes Stores and the Talbot hotel just at Carlow Town.

It's not just street lights is the problem, homes are leaving LED lights on all night now due to the cheap running costs, farms, commercial properties etc, too much light on all night.

Most street lights don't need to be on full blast all night.

I live close to one of the slip roads on the M9 and it's brightly lit for 2 km north/south and it really is ridiculous, cars have headlights so I don't see the need for all that pollution lighting up the sky.

So much flood lighting pointing straight and up and not down, attached to the side of buildings.

Our work campus is just ridiculous, you can see it for miles the glow it causes in the sky, ultra mega bright LED causing birds to wake all night and even fly around in the middle of the night.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

..... I see the effect ultra bright lighting has in our work place , I work shift and at night you can clearly see birds flying around and no they're not bats because the lights are so bright in the industrial area I can clearly see the birds. You don;t want this replicated in every town and village in the country.

yep, I take my dogs out for a pee around 1.30am and the birds are tweeting their hearts away on the estate across from us (and the estate has all had their streetlight heads changed to LED) and I never noticed this where the sodium lights are - I did read somewhere that it LED light plays havoc with animals like hedgehogs and the like, they think its daytime/daylight - must be the same with the birds, its confusing them

[Deleted User]

It must be an effect of LED's themselves as I never observed this with the old white mercury vapor lights. Though industrial areas are too bright anyway with such wasted energy, lights pointing straight and up and not down.

I think the issue is the led lights are far too intense, and also they're too bright, not that I'm a fan of yellow sodium, I hate it but it's usually dimmer light which is still fine to light up local areas at night.

We don't need to turn the night into day really and this is what it appears people are trying to do.

I think we need to do more to tackle wasted energy and light pollution, we don't need street lights on everywhere all night. It works in Germany where they're turned off in some residential areas at 11 Pm and it works and everyone thinks it's a good idea and the sky views are amazing.

Here in Ireland in the middle of no where you'll find clusters of street lights on all night all to serve 2-3 houses, road junctions lit up all night in the middle of nowhere.

Even in Dublin as I sometimes make a trip at 2 or 3am to Mc donalds for lunch I see such wasted energy everywhere, lights on and nobody around......makes no sense to me anyway.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not just street lights is the problem, homes are leaving LED lights on all night now due to the cheap running costs, farms, commercial properties etc, too much light on all night.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38650976

But the price of light alone tells a fascinating story: it has fallen by a factor of 500,000, far faster than official inflation statistics suggest.

A thing that was once too precious to use is now too cheap to notice.

antodeco

On my road they have a random mix of 3 different bulb types. Messes with the eyes.

Andy From Sligo

Deleted User wrote: »

It must be an effect of LED's themselves as I never observed this with the old white mercury vapor lights. Though industrial areas are too bright anyway with such wasted energy, lights pointing straight and up and not down.

I think the issue is the led lights are far too intense, and also they're too bright, not that I'm a fan of yellow sodium, I hate it but it's usually dimmer light which is still fine to light up local areas at night.

We don't need to turn the night into day really and this is what it appears people are trying to do.

I think we need to do more to tackle wasted energy and light pollution, we don't need street lights on everywhere all night. It works in Germany where they're turned off in some residential areas at 11 Pm and it works and everyone thinks it's a good idea and the sky views are amazing.

Here in Ireland in the middle of no where you'll find clusters of street lights on all night all to serve 2-3 houses, road junctions lit up all night in the middle of nowhere.

Even in Dublin as I sometimes make a trip at 2 or 3am to Mc donalds for lunch I see such wasted energy everywhere, lights on and nobody around......makes no sense to me anyway.

I know a few years back when they tried turning off some streetlamps in areas over there - crime seemed to increase in a lot of areas ... its just a fact of getting the balance right I suppose.

I shouldnt think streetlamps on housing estates are there for the cars as such when they burn all night , I would say they are lit there all night for a bit of security , maybe a bit of convenience too ... and people walking back to their house from the pub so they can see where to put the key in the door

as for the lights on the road - well with LED they could use some kind of PIR system to streetlamp columns maybe if using with LED light head (could'nt use it with sodium high pressure/low pressure lamps because they need a certain amount of time to get up to full brightness) but with instant on of LED it would be OK - so if a car/person is approaching it turns lamp on for 5-10mins and then goes off , no person or no, moving traffic then light goes off and save power (mind you, there are huge savings to be made with LED anyway.... so whether it would be viable or economical to have a series of streetlights go on and off with PIR sensor would be the thing)

Andy From Sligo

antodeco wrote: »

On my road they have a random mix of 3 different bulb types. Messes with the eyes.

i bet it does , because your eyes have to adjust to each different intensity/colour rendering of the light.

What is it that dogs have trouble with seeing in certain light ? - I think its low pressure sodium SOX light (the yellow ones), anyway when they are out in in these lights they only can see in black and white I think it is because some colour is invisible with SOX lamps spectrum or something - I did used to know but I cannot remember it now

Capt'n Midnight

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I know a few years back when they tried turning off some streetlamps in areas over there - crime seemed to increase in a lot of areas ... its just a fact of getting the balance right I suppose.

I've seen stuff on this in the UK, like CCTV it just moves crime to other areas. So it's not like there's a reduction in crime overall.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

I'd say not a single female has or will post in this thread. Which is great.

Sodium streetlamps are lovely to me.

Andy From Sligo

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

I'd say not a single female has or will post in this thread. Which is great.

Sodium streetlamps are lovely to me.

haha sexist alert

- when i used to work on telesales on this electrical trade counter in the late 80's in the UK one of my collegues was a woman... always getting ribbed by the contracters coming in, you can just imagine it - but her knowledge of streetlamps and lighting for commercial property and warehouses and switchgear was impeccable! - she knew more than us blokes who worked there - shame the contractor guys used to come in and tell her to put the kettle on and that the shelves in the shop hadnt been dusted in ages

I love sodium streetlights too - especially on dull dark rainy days and dark enough to switch the photocell on, made you all nice and warm and a nice warm orange/yellow glow - not like these new crisp white LED lights these days when they come on and make you feel colder looking at them.

Theres nothing more enjoyable than looking onto a street where it has snowed and settled and the SON sodium light is reflecting off the white snow - its like an old fashioned christmas card - that feeling will all be gone soon when all the light heads are changed to LED <sob!>

Andy From Sligo

not mad keen on these new 500w (400w) halogen PIR lamps now either (pretty soon it will be too hard to buy a 400w halogen floodlight soon as all the DIY places like B&Q and that are only supplying the LED floodlights now)

so lets see a 500w PIR halogen flood-lamp puts out around 8,000 lumens I think, nice for lighting up a driveway/back garden - and the LED well sure its 30w but only gives off 3,000 lm - i mean like at the end of the day it isnt an economy issue because even though its 400w halogen bulb its only on set timer for 1 or 2 minutes when someone walks or drive past it, so its not like on all the time.

more economical and long lasting and cooler i suppose but very poor substitute

punisher5112

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not mad keen on these new 500w (400w) halogen PIR lamps now either (pretty soon it will be too hard to buy a 400w halogen floodlight soon as all the DIY places like B&Q and that are only supplying the LED floodlights now)

so lets see a 500w PIR halogen flood-lamp puts out around 8,000 lumens I think, nice for lighting up a driveway/back garden - and the LED well sure its 30w but only gives off 3,000 lm - i mean like at the end of the day it isnt an economy issue because even though its 400w halogen bulb its only on set timer for 1 or 2 minutes when someone walks or drive past it, so its not like on all the time.

more economical and long lasting and cooler i suppose but very poor substitute

Then get a 50w, 70w, 100w etc.. led come in so many styles and lumen levels.

Great for security on sites, farms and such.

Street lights need to be bright to light up as much as possible and also are a great deterrent of thefts and attacks on people as Crims don't like been seen.

Wossack

Our whole estate got switched over a few months back, and I think its been great.

[Deleted User]

Wossack wrote: »

Our whole estate got switched over a few months back, and I think its been great.

Yeah can be great if they get the light output and colour right and not try to turn the night into day.

[Deleted User]

punisher5112 wrote: »

Then get a 50w, 70w, 100w etc.. led come in so many styles and lumen levels.

Great for security on sites, farms and such.

Street lights need to be bright to light up as much as possible and also are a great deterrent of thefts and attacks on people as Crims don't like been seen.

No, it's an unnecessary waste of energy, pollutes a far greater distance than the intended area.

The cheaper the light the greater the waste so more light will be installed and there won't be a huge reduction in energy.

In actual fact there's little energy benefit in the wattage V lumen output of led flood lights V gas discharge lamps in the first place.

Street lights need to be suitable for their environment , bright where needed and not bright in the sticks to light up 2 houses every 2 Kms and junctions where 5 cars may pass every 2 hrs. Motorway slip roads lit all over the country 2 Km either lane, it's a joke. Some people actually like the night and the night sky.

Mega bright light in housing estates is annoying and not needed when people are asleep.