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Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

Kermit.de.frog

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

We can only do it with the help of our gallant allies of course now the UK is leaving and they despise them.

I do feel we may regret it down the road and that the Irish are somewhat awestruck with the sudden power they seem to have over the old foe, the tables turned etc.

It's a mirage - they'll fight on the beaches etc.

But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.

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end of the road

we aren't bullying them, we are looking after our own interests. we must continue to do so. if the uk don't like it tough, they are nice to have as a trade partner but if the worst comes to the worst, we can and will survive without them.

[Deleted User]

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

We can only do it with the help of our gallant allies of course now the UK is leaving and they despise them.

I do feel we may regret it down the road and that the Irish are somewhat awestruck with the sudden power they seem to have over the old foe, the tables turned etc.

It's a mirage - they'll fight on the beaches etc.

But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.

Britain have also been our biggest trading market for centuries so Varadkar needs to show some more tact with the media then he is doing or it could really bite us in the ass down the line. There is no telling what could happen next in Europe. Alot of political instability out there and many nations are demanding reform

pgj2015

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

We can only do it with the help of our gallant allies of course now the UK is leaving and they despise them.

I do feel we may regret it down the road and that the Irish are somewhat awestruck with the sudden power they seem to have over the old foe, the tables turned etc.

It's a mirage - they'll fight on the beaches etc.

But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.

0:44-0:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TgCkTVtjHU

RobertKK

48% are our friends, the others caused much unneeded problems for everyone, and if we are bullying them over Brexit, tough, I heard a Brexit supporter on TV say how the British empire was a good thing and I think there is a section of Brexit with that mentality.
Down through the centuries our allies have been on the continent, not Britain.
I don't think Brexit was the actions of a friend, they forgot we existed when they were debating about a bus slogan.
They jumped off a cliff and if we have to bully them to avoid them dragging us down with them, so be it.
They have the most idiotic government on this continent.

doolox

They do not have an opinion either way and neither should we.

Uk or their great pals the US can do us a lot of economic damage if we get too uppity as a country and start making life difficult for them. The US could influence a sharp reduction in FDI and tourist spending and really screw us over.

The UK are responsible for 45% of our foreign trade and we cannot afford to lose that.

The reality is that a lot of people in the US and UK are not in favour of Brexit and only are doing it to get votes from the ordinary xenophobic, anti foreigner voter.

The real powers that be would prefer harmony and unity in Europe and the US would prefer to deal with a UK in the EU. The Conservatives and Labour are looking to maintain as much advantage by keeping as close as possible to full membership but they realise that to say so will cost votes and they would sell their mother for votes.

Junkyard Tom

We're the best friends they have in the EU god love them.

Tom Mann Centuria

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We're the best friends they have in the EU god love them.

This is most definitely true.

Peregrinus

Britain is not our biggest trading partner; the US is. I don't know where doolox gets his figures from; the UK accounts for 15% of our exports and 32% of our imports. The notion that we are "bullying" the UK is just laughable and as for Varadkar "showing more tact", well, we tried the softly, softly approach and the UK basically ignored us. If we are now upfront about defending our own interests, that is entirely the result of the UK's policy of ignoring unpleasant realities unless given no choice.

It is possible that there may be some backlash from some quarters in Britain against Ireland for trying to protect our interests. That would not be a reason, however, to give up trying to protect our interests.

Your Face

The irony is alright.

pauldla

We started bullying them? Wedgies and dead legs all around?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

We can only do it with the help of our gallant allies of course now the UK is leaving and they despise them.

I do feel we may regret it down the road and that the Irish are somewhat awestruck with the sudden power they seem to have over the old foe, the tables turned etc.

It's a mirage - they'll fight on the beaches etc.

But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.

They voted to leave, they're leaving. They voted to have an ineffective PM lead the negotiations for leaving and they've got an ineffective PM leading the negotiations for leaving.

Dunno how this reflects badly on anyone else.

Peregrinus

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

They voted to leave, they're leaving. They voted to have an ineffective PM lead the negotiations for leaving and they've got an ineffective PM leading the negotiations for leaving.

Dunno how this reflects badly on anyone else.

Well, in fairness, they didn't vote to have May as Prime Minister. The Tories got 42% of the vote in the 2017 election, the only one they have fought with May as leader. 58% of the voters seem to want someone else. It's just the vagaries of the quaintly crapulous UK election system that has put her in office.

Still, I don't see how they can blame Irish bullying for that. Unless you consoder the DUP to be a manifestation of Irish bullying, of course. Which I suppose is at least arguable!

Victor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

Isn't there a pattern of bullies claiming to be the victim?

Try_harder

The UK need to learn the difference between fantasy and reality

Brexiteer Fantasy: Rule Britannia

Brexit Reality: Isolated island with limited trading powers without the EU

Kermit.de.frog

Try_harder wrote: »

The UK need to learn the difference between fantasy and reality

Brexiteer Fantasy: Rule Britannia

Brexit Reality: Isolated island with limited trading powers without the EU

But what if they make it work and actually do well?

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?

Peregrinus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But what if they make it work and actually do well?

That would be in our interests, frankly, and we will do nothing to impede it. But the truth is it that this is a wildly unlikely outcome; those who expect it are engaged in wishful thinking rooted in ignorance.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?

Well, QED, I think!

Try_harder

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But what if they make it work and actually do well?

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?

Off the backs of whom, this time time, I wonder???

jooksavage

Ridiculous leading question. We're not bullying the UK. If your friend took their nose out of the Daily Mail and the Telegraph they might start to appreciate the world doesn't revolve around old Blighty. If the government here were to simply concede to Tory demands it would be a massive dereliction of responsibility.

There's a yawning chasm in the UK between the younger and older generations, between people willing to take on board facts and people who are deaf to reason - that's a UK problem, not an Irish one.

mikemac2

Vote leave because of immigration.

Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar, use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs. Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.

But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.

Your elderly brexit voter

McMurphy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A British friend of mine told me today he felt Ireland was bullying the UK (I know!)over Brexit.

Tell your friend to go and take a sh1t in his hat.

Peregrinus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

. . . But aside from self interest maybe we should be supporting them? Sometimes I feel we are more British than Finchley.

They are our friends.

We are not more British than Finchley, I think I can safely say. I don't know where you got that idea from. Have you ever been to Finchley?

Still, they (generally) are our friends. More to the point, we generally try to be their friends.

Still, sometimes it's the business of a friend to sit you down and point out to you that you are making a very mistake. This is not generally welcome advice, but that doesn't mean it isn't friendly advice.

As between Ireland and the UK, right now is one of those times. Not much would be served by us pointing out to the UK how stupid they are being, I concede, but we can help them by doing our bit to ensure that their Brest tends towards soft, rather than hard. Thus anything we can do which might result in them ending up in, or at least a bit closer than would otherwise be the case to, the Single Market and/or the Customs Union is definitely something that a friend should do.

So, right now we are being very friendly towards the UK. Friendlier, if the truth be told, than they are being to themselves.

Perhaps you meant your poll question to be "Should we start bullying the UK?"

jooksavage

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Heard some politicians talk about Empire 2.0?

Which politicians?

Unless they start repoulating places like St. Kildas and Scarba and try to pass them off as colonial outposts that kind of talk is pure fantasy.

There's quite a jingoistic tone prevailing in the UK among a certain cohort. A recent poll shows that the majority of over-65s want to see the return of compulsory National Service. Even though the majority polled were too young to have done it themselves.

OneEightSeven

mikemac2 wrote: »

Vote leave because of immigration.

According to a Lord Ashcroft poll, 49% voted leave because of sovereignty. 33% for to leave due to immigration.

Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar,

How are they refusing to integrate? Are they imposing cultural beliefs on the native Spanish, like the way Muslims are grooming underage girls in England and form Islamist political parties like Islam4UK? The ones who voted to leave the UK because of immigration are working class folk who can't afford holiday homes.

use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs.

Which they have to pay for. Spain operates a combination of private and public health care, with public health care available on a contribution-based system, meaning that you have to pay into the social security system in order for you and your dependents to have access to free health care.

Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.

Why would they be complaining about Polish shops in London while living in Spain?

But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.

No, I'm sure their definition of immigrant extends to white Europeans.

Your elderly brexit voter

Bullshít.

force eleven

I wish we had the same backbone and voted out. Well, we voted twice on treaties from Brussels and they didn't like that one bit. Little Ireland wasn't going to stop the Eurocrats dream of a federal Europe, one state, one currency, one bank, one tax rate. All gradually coming to fruition. If you like all the rules being made from a group of unelected career politicians that nobody heard of before they got their portfolios, that's fine. Good luck, and the majority of people in Ireland are good with that or simply don't care, or trust Leo (ha ha). Britain voted out for those reasons plus they have immigration concerns. Many here disagree, again, fine. It's happening though, and Ireland needs to think for itself as to how to handle it, and take a firm stance with Brussels, as well as London.

Ajsoprano

Anybody read the d Irish story the worm has turned.
I can’t remember the translation.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Skedaddle

It's fairly inevitable that they'll blame everyone else for the fact that they've got to deal with reality.

They've just potentially destroyed the NI peace process and could cause tens of billions of damage to the Irish economy, yet we're bullying them?

There's an answer to a comment like that : grow the **** up and stop whining! The world doesn't owe you a living!

Peregrinus

jooksavage wrote: »

Which politicians?

Unless they start repopulating places like St. Kildas and Scarba and try to pass them off as colonial outposts that kind of talk is pure fantasy.

The term popped up about a year ago. As far as I can make out it was attributed in news reports not to politicians but to unnamed Whitehall mandarins. (E.g.: "Britain will try to boost trade relations with African Commonwealth nations in a move dubbed “Empire 2.0” by Whitehall officials" - Daily Express, 6 March 2017.) Note that the officials concerned are unnamed because they were sceptical of the idea. ("A few Whitehall officials, however, are expressing scepticism about the idea. They are said to have described Mr Fox’s ambitions for a renewed trading relationship with the Commonwealth as 'Empire 2.0.'" - Financial Times, 8 March 2017).

The term wasn't coined as an approving one, so; it was intended derisively. But it does refer to Liam Fox's plans to enter into trade agreements, and build up trade, with Commonwealth countries, and he has the kind of cloth ears and cotton-wool brain that might just possibly allow him to think that it was an approving term, and to adopt it himself. Fox deludes himself that the British empire was basically a good thing, and that a period in which Britain enriched itself through genocide, slavery and colonial rule is fondly remembered by its victims, leaving a treasury of goodwill on which the UK can now draw in the form of favourable trade deals. It's just possible that Fox might think that associating his drive for Commonwealth trade deals with the Empire will confer an advantage.

But, to my lasting regret, I can't find that Fox ever has used the term, still less adopted it for his own plans.

Besides, whatever you call it, the whole idea is misconceived. It's true that in the nineteenth century the UK was both the hub of the largest empire on earth and the greatest manufacturing and trading nation the world had ever seen. But these were two separate things. Even at the height of its imperial power, the UK traded more with Europe and the United States than with the colonies. British capital fueled the booming cities of the American north, and the slave-driven cotton economy of the deep south. By comparison, not a lot went to Africa. Similarly with trade in goods; the UK did more trade with tiny Denmark, for instance, than with Nigeria, one of her biggest west African colonies.

In short, not even Empire 1.0 was a functional trade bloc. It's geography and economics, not politics and ideology, that drives trade flows.

noodler

Peregrinus wrote: »

Britain is not our biggest trading partner; the US is. I don't know where doolox gets his figures from; the UK accounts for 15% of our exports and 32% of our imports. The notion that we are "bullying" the UK is just laughable and as for Varadkar "showing more tact", well, we tried the softly, softly approach and the UK basically ignored us. If we are now upfront about defending our own interests, that is entirely the result of the UK's policy of ignoring unpleasant realities unless given no choice.

It is possible that there may be some backlash from some quarters in Britain against Ireland for trying to protect our interests. That would not be a reason, however, to give up trying to protect our interests.

Take pharma out of it.

They are our most important trade partner.

Peregrinus

You;ll have to take more than pharma out of it, I'm afraid, noodler. Assuming we count EU countries separately, the US is our largest trading partner by a long measure, and that remains true if we pretend the trade in pharmaceuticals does not exist.

Besides, why would we "take pharma out of it"? If you take pharma out, and then other sectors, until you get the result you want, well, great, you've got the result you want, but what's the value of that? Your figures are now totally bogus, since they no longer represent our trading relationships; just the aspects of our trading relationships that you haven't arbitrarily chosen to ignore.

In any event, in the present context it makes no difference. In terms of leaving the EU in order to protect our UK trade what matters is not the value of the trade we do with the US; it's the value of the trade we do with the Single Market ex-UK, since that (obviously) is what we would jeopardise by leaving the EU. And the value of our trade with the Single Market ex-UK is much, much larger than the value of our trade with the UK.